Old Firm Game

[Fairbairn]

9 hours ago, Farcity said:

Why isn't Kamara subjected to it? Or Goldson? Morelos is abused purely because he behaves like an utter cunt. All his gesturing to opposition fans, his general demeanor, those are why he is singled out and no other reason. 

The man is a piece of shit, pure and simple. To suggest he gets abuse purely down to his colour is complete nonsense. 

 

I think labelling Morelos "a piece of shit" is mibbe getting a wee bit carried away.  Sure he might be a bit of a prick on the football pitch but this is a guy who has just flown back to Colombia to provide Christmas presents for hundreds of impoverished kids .  Yes, he has the means to do so but there are plenty of other players with his means (and more) that don't so this type of thing.  He's been in no bother at all off the pitch during his time here as well.  Certainly not what you'd expect from a man who is a piece of shit.

[aaid]

7 minutes ago, Fairbairn said:

I think labelling Morelos "a piece of shit" is mibbe getting a wee bit carried away.  Sure he might be a bit of a prick on the football pitch but this is a guy who has just flown back to Colombia to provide Christmas presents for hundreds of impoverished kids .  Yes, he has the means to do so but there are plenty of other players with his means (and more) that don't so this type of thing.  He's been in no bother at all off the pitch during his time here as well.  Certainly not what you'd expect from a man who is a piece of shit.

Exactly, and there are similarly plenty of so called model pros that are complete cunts off the field. You can't judge someone's character by how the behave when they cross the white line.   It's much more important how they behave in the rest of the week than for ninety minutes on a Saturday.  

[Rolling hIlls]

8 minutes ago, aaid said:

Exactly, and there are similarly plenty of so called model pros that are complete cunts off the field. You can't judge someone's character by how the behave when they cross the white line.   It's much more important how they behave in the rest of the week than for ninety minutes on a Saturday.  

Scott Brown is the same.  I have met him a couple of times and a complete gentleman.  But on the park he is an annoying bugger.  But you would have him in your team every day of the week.  Same with Morelos.  Bid characters who stand when the going gets tough.

[daviebee]

10 hours ago, aaid said:

Throwing in racial epithets was just an afterthought then.

I think Neil Lennon is a narky little shite.  I thought he was a narky little shite when he was a Leicester and I didn't have a clue what religion he was.  He used to get abuse in England purely because he was a narky little shite.   I've no doubt though that the primary reason Lennon gets abuse in Scotland is because he's a Irish Catholic and who he plays for.  Scott Brown who is also a narky shite doesn't get anywhere near the abuse that Lennon got.    

Similarly Morelos gets abuse because he's black, he's a narky shite and who he plays for.   Steven Naismith was also a narky shite - on the field, not off it - and got nowhere near the abuse Morelos gets.

it doesn't take a genius to work out the reasons why.  

How many red cards did you see Steven Naismith get?  Morelos gets abuse cos he's a diver, a fouler who gets away with far too much, and generally a complete and utter arse.  The fans also know he's likely to react, no other reason.  His colour has nothing to do with it.

[Fairbairn]

8 minutes ago, daviebee said:

How many red cards did you see Steven Naismith get?  Morelos gets abuse cos he's a diver, a fouler who gets away with far too much, and generally a complete and utter arse.  The fans also know he's likely to react, no other reason.  His colour has nothing to do with it.

But if he's being racially abused surely it does? 

[daviebee]

1 minute ago, Fairbairn said:

But if he's being racially abused surely it does? 

Well it would if it was happening every week but it isn't. All we've had so far is a single video that may or may not be conclusive. (Once is once more than enough of course.)

The way some folk are going on you'd think we were back to the bad old days of what Mark Walters had to put up with. We're not. Morelos gets stick for the reasons mentioned by plenty other posters above, not cos he's black.

[sbcmfc]

I think their could be a subconscious or mild institutionalised racism. It’s been highlighted in England with Raheem Sterling (or Lewis Hamilton) and the perceived rough time they get from the media etc, and I don’t think it’s an unfair criticism.

The sports media is largely made up of middle aged white men as is the SFA/FA etc.

I had wondered about the Ryan Kent gun celebration the other day, and if it would’ve provoked a stronger reaction had it been a black player?

[Dapo Mabude]

11 hours ago, Farcity said:

Why isn't Kamara subjected to it? Or Goldson? Morelos is abused purely because he behaves like an utter cunt. All his gesturing to opposition fans, his general demeanor, those are why he is singled out and no other reason. 

The man is a piece of shit, pure and simple. To suggest he gets abuse purely down to his colour is complete nonsense. 

 

Kamara was racially abused by Celtic fans last season so I have no idea what you are on about. 

"while monkey chants were directed towards Rangers midfielder Glen Kamara by a number of Celtic fans."

https://farenet.org/news/list-of-incidents-reported-to-fare-during-march-2019/

[aaid]

24 minutes ago, sbcmfc said:

I think their could be a subconscious or mild institutionalised racism. It’s been highlighted in England with Raheem Sterling (or Lewis Hamilton) and the perceived rough time they get from the media etc, and I don’t think it’s an unfair criticism.

The sports media is largely made up of middle aged white men as is the SFA/FA etc.

I had wondered about the Ryan Kent gun celebration the other day, and if it would’ve provoked a stronger reaction had it been a black player?

That's pretty much my point, although I think for the people who actually indulge in the abuse it's more than subconscious.

Raheem Sterling has been pretty much demonised since he left Liverpool, that's recently changed since he started to stand up for himself.    Sterling isn't a particularly nasty player, nor would I suggest he's one who cheats more than any other player does.   His "crime" is that he's greedy and ungrateful for what he's got.    Ashley Cole got exactly the same when he left Arsenal.   Maybe they are both greedy, but white players who leave the club that brought them through to join another for more money don't get anywhere near the level of abuse they got/get.  In both cases, that was probably amplified by the media feeding a narrative that they were leaving allegedly "Big Clubs" (Liverpool/Arsenal) to join a "smaller" club (Man City/Chelsea) and that could only be for the money.  Of course the medals they've both won since changing clubs compared to the medals they would've won remaining where they were makes a mockery of that.

The press stoke up a narrative that this player is somehow "unworthy" and that gives license for the bigots and racists to vent their spleens.   You only see it with black players, not white.   It goes to the same conscious or subconscious ideas I mentioned before that "those sort" should know their place and not get above their station.

[Rolling hIlls]

I have no idea how an Old Firm thread turned in to a philosophy lesson about race.  Also I don't know why these words are underlined. Scotland and underline words forever.

[RDFH64]

49 minutes ago, Dapo Mabude said:

Kamara was racially abused by Celtic fans last season so I have no idea what you are on about. 

"while monkey chants were directed towards Rangers midfielder Glen Kamara by a number of Celtic fans."

https://farenet.org/news/list-of-incidents-reported-to-fare-during-march-2019/

Makes you wander what Celtics coloured players think, or any other teams for that matter when they hear an opposing coloured player being racially abused by their own fans, time for them to call out the racists, after all by being coloured themselves are they not being abused indirectly by the morons who only see colour in an opposition strip.

[sbcmfc]

20 minutes ago, aaid said:

That's pretty much my point, although I think for the people who actually indulge in the abuse it's more than subconscious.

Yes, it’s different from standing at the football hurling racist insults, or some of the disgusting abuse you see directed at players online etc.

I will say, in my experience, barring a very small amount of individuals, I don’t think racism is a big problem in Scottish football.

Groups chanting or racially abusing players en masse like we saw in the late 80s and early 90s isn’t something we see up here. It tends to be lone individuals.

There’s clearly still no place for it, but I feel in Scottish football (and society) we have a bigger fish to fry in terms of intolerance, making it all the more interesting that Rangers of all people have chosen to go there....

[aaid]

11 minutes ago, RDFH64 said:

Makes you wander what Celtics coloured players think, or any other teams for that matter when they hear an opposing coloured player being racially abused by their own fans, time for them to call out the racists, after all by being coloured themselves are they not being abused indirectly by the morons who only see colour in an opposition strip.

Hey, lets go back to the 1970s.

[sbcmfc]

10 minutes ago, RDFH64 said:

Makes you wander what Celtics coloured players think, or any other teams for that matter when they hear an opposing coloured player being racially abused by their own fans, time for them to call out the racists, after all by being coloured themselves are they not being abused indirectly by the morons who only see colour in an opposition strip.

Not a dig, just a heads up, but “Coloured” isn’t considered a politically correct way to describe a black or mixed race person.

[aaid]

2 minutes ago, sbcmfc said:

Yes, it’s different from standing at the football hurling racist insults, or some of the disgusting abuse you see directed at players online etc.

I will say, in my experience, barring a very small amount of individuals, I don’t think racism is a big problem in Scottish football.

Groups chanting or racially abusing players en masse like we saw in the late 80s and early 90s isn’t something we see up here. It tends to be lone individuals.

There’s clearly still no place for it, but I feel in Scottish football (and society) we have a bigger fish to fry in terms of intolerance, making it all the more interesting that Rangers of all people have chosen to go there....

You are probably right but sticking your head in the sand and pretending it doesn't exist - not that I'm suggesting you're doing that but others are - isn't going to solve anything.

[Fairbairn]

15 minutes ago, RDFH64 said:

Makes you wander what Celtics coloured players think, or any other teams for that matter when they hear an opposing coloured player being racially abused by their own fans, time for them to call out the racists, after all by being coloured themselves are they not being abused indirectly by the morons who only see colour in an opposition strip.

It's exactly same as the countless Catholic players we've had over the years.  I often wonder what the think of the pish that comes out of our stands on a regular basis.

[Stu101]

5 minutes ago, Fairbairn said:

It's exactly same as the countless Catholic players we've had over the years.  I often wonder what the think of the pish that comes out of our stands on a regular basis.

Agreed. 100%

[WCTA]

6 minutes ago, Fairbairn said:

It's exactly same as the countless Catholic players we've had over the years.  I often wonder what the think of the pish that comes out of our stands on a regular basis.

Without it they wouldn’t have received their huge wages. Rangers made their fortune through intolerance of culture and faith. 

Edited January 3, 2020 by WCTA

[sbcmfc]

3 minutes ago, aaid said:

You are probably right but sticking your head in the sand and pretending it doesn't exist - not that I'm suggesting you're doing that but others are - isn't going to solve anything.

I think part of the problem here is the allegation around this video appears to be based on pretty flimsy evidence.

The fact none of us would be surprised if it did happen tells us there’s still a problem, but chances are it didn’t happen, or at least there’s no evidence it did in the way described.

It makes the whole thing a bit of a shit show with Celtic and their fans defending the allegations, despite the fact they’ll be fully aware it could have happened (and could happen at any ground).

[RDFH64]

12 minutes ago, sbcmfc said:

Not a dig, just a heads up, but “Coloured” isn’t considered a politically correct way to describe a black or mixed race person.

I was trying to use a term that covered all non white players,

[aaid]

1 minute ago, sbcmfc said:

I think part of the problem here is the allegation around this video appears to be based on pretty flimsy evidence.

The fact none of us would be surprised if it did happen tells us there’s still a problem, but chances are it didn’t happen, or at least there’s no evidence it did in the way described.

It makes the whole thing a bit of a shit show with Celtic and their fans defending the allegations, despite the fact they’ll be fully aware it could have happened (and could happen at any ground).

That's probably correct as well.   A similar thing happened at the recent Spurs v Chelsea match with Rudiger saying he heard some monkey chants and then Spurs going into mental gymnastics trying to explain it away.    I think in those situations the correct response is those situations -  is we believe him when he says he heard something that sounded like abuse, we can't find any evidence to support it but we also can't rule out that it could've happened.    

It also doesn't help that Celtic, club and fans - more so than any other club in Scotland - have a real holier than thou attitude towards denying racist abuse and general anti-social behaviour amongst their support despite numerous incidents that prove otherwise.    

In saying that, I'm well aware of that Rangers can similarly be accused of hypocrisy here and they probably have a bigger ingrained issue to deal with.   

[vanderark14]

Interesting way in which the FA and PFA have handled the sectarian abuse directed at james mclean. The match between huddersfield and stoke was halted because of it, in other words it was handled correctly. 

 

[phart]

35 minutes ago, RDFH64 said:

Makes you wander what Celtics coloured players think, or any other teams for that matter when they hear an opposing coloured player being racially abused by their own fans, time for them to call out the racists, after all by being coloured themselves are they not being abused indirectly by the morons who only see colour in an opposition strip.

mental

 

To add during racial segregattion in the US you had "colored only" foutains and the like that's why it's generally not used.

Edited January 3, 2020 by phart

[dandydunn]

1 hour ago, RDFH64 said:

Makes you wander what Celtics coloured players think, or any other teams for that matter when they hear an opposing coloured player being racially abused by their own fans, time for them to call out the racists, after all by being coloured themselves are they not being abused indirectly by the morons who only see colour in an opposition strip.

They don’t think, that’s the problem. When a Man Utd player was getting it tight a few weeks ago, Sterling just stood by, watched & listened to it happen. Didn’t affect him, so he doesn’t care about it. It’s  all a media picture that they like to paint that it’s a massive problem. 
 

It’s a problem, bet certainly not a massive one, although that said, it being said once is once too much. 

Edited January 3, 2020 by dandydunn

[Dapo Mabude]

2 hours ago, sbcmfc said:

I had wondered about the Ryan Kent gun celebration the other day, and if it would’ve provoked a stronger reaction had it been a black player?

The reaction to that celebration is one of the most ridiculous things ever. Just a case of sour grapes.

It's a reference to a rap music group ffs lol