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Scotland vs Kazakhstan match thread


ceudmilefailte

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1 hour ago, Squirrelhumper said:

Gallagher a better option than mulgrew. 

I think we'd have conceded a second or even a third had Mulgrew been playing. 

He's a nice lad who has put the effort in and turned up for the games but his time is well and truly up.

1 hour ago, noctonjock said:

This . I think Clarke given more time will get it right.  The players are still learning his methods and we saw second half an improvement 

Great post.

Clarke can only work with what he has available. Slowly but surely he's getting it right. He had a big problem with the call offs but selected the right players to play from the ones called up and they won both matches.

In particular, his decision to move John McGinn much further up the pitch where he can actually do some damage to the opposition was an excellent one. 

I'm backing Steve Clarke :ok:

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8 hours ago, henry george said:

Not completely convincing but played very well in patches.  One or two adjustments and I think we have a team that can compete for that Euro finals place.

Robertson/Tierney for Taylor

McTominay for McGregor

Mulgrew for Jack.

Special mentions for Palmer and Gallacher who have done fairly well in these two games.

Mulgrew for Jack?  You want to shoehorn in a CH who's best days are behind him to replace a CDM who as it stands would likely be in the running for SPFL POTY?  Can't say I see any logic in that whatsoever!

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Agree with @weekevie04 and also John McGinn was pretty good.

Is Clarke going to get these players before play offs?  Imagine even a 2 day session to get shape and tactics into their heads.

At the moment we are looking at

Marshall GK

Tierney/Robertson LB

McKenna altho he's still ropey is it down to injury recovery? CH

CH up for grabs Souttar/Bates/Mulgrew etc

Palmer/Tierney RB

Jack/McTominay CM

MacGregor CM

Forrest LM but he does not deliver like he does for Celtic

McGinn #10

Christie RM

Griffiths/Naismith CF

Weakest areas are in the 2 boxes.  Central defence and centre forward.

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Struggling to understand McGregor criticism. IMHO one of our most important players who played very well. Also thought Jack has played very well and would definitely not change for Mulgrew. McTominay maybe.

Got to be Palmer at RB with O'Donnell in reserve.

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51 minutes ago, Alan said:

 

Is Clarke going to get these players before play offs?  Imagine even a 2 day session to get shape and tactics into their heads.

 

If the clubs don't agree to cancelling the games the weekend before these play offs they can go fuck themselves.

Even move them to the midweek and get the squad together on the Wednesday morning. Obvs be without the EPL players until the Monday but needs must.

15:00 Celtic Celtic   v   St. Johnstone St. Johnstone  
Celtic Park    
15:00 Hamilton Academical Hamilton Academical   v   Hibernian Hibernian  
Fountain of Youth Stadium    
15:00 Heart of Midlothian Heart of Midlothian   v   Ross County Ross County  
Tynecastle Park    
15:00 Livingston Livingston   v   Aberdeen Aberdeen  
Tony Macaroni Arena    
15:00 Motherwell Motherwell   v   Kilmarnock Kilmarnock  
Fir Park    
15:00 St. Mirren St. Mirren   v   Rangers Rangers
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54 minutes ago, Alan said:

Agree with @weekevie04 and also John McGinn was pretty good.

Is Clarke going to get these players before play offs?  Imagine even a 2 day session to get shape and tactics into their heads.

At the moment we are looking at

Marshall GK

Tierney/Robertson LB

McKenna altho he's still ropey is it down to injury recovery? CH

CH up for grabs Souttar/Bates/Mulgrew etc

Palmer/Tierney RB

Jack/McTominay CM

MacGregor CM

Forrest LM but he does not deliver like he does for Celtic

McGinn #10

Christie RM

Griffiths/Naismith CF

Weakest areas are in the 2 boxes.  Central defence and centre forward.

I'd have Findlay or Gallagher ahead of that bombscare Bates.

Souttar would be my first choice if all fit. McKenna gives me the fear.

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Listening to Radio Clyde on the way to the game last night, they mentioned that Clarke wants a training camp at some point between now and the play off's (can only imagine its to get another look at players in the current squad who might end up losing their place when the "big names" return in March) which is actually a good idea, but doubt the clubs will release a lot of their players for it.

First half thought we played ok, but nobody was really grabbing the game by the scruff of the neck, and Palmer and Taylor left us far to exposed at the back when they tried to attack (Gallagher and McKenna certainly had their iffy moments, but going forward we need to stop this habit of chopping and changing the defence on a game by game basis, and imagine we will have almost all our defenders back by March).

Second half felt like the game plan finally came into play, as Naismith was getting involved in everything, while I thought Jack had a pretty quiet game I was actually shocked when I got home to watch Sportscene and actually see just how involved he was, McGinn has really come into his own and its like watching the Faddy of 2007-ish where its just a joy to watch.

Also while everyone was praising McGinn, IMHO McGregor was the real stand out last night and back to his best at both club and country (when just a few weeks back he looked very burnt out and was really something of a concern).

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10 hours ago, weekevie04 said:

A very solid second half performance.

Very happy with that after a decent but no bite first half.  Really could have been more if we had more of a threat/attacking prowess.

Marshall - solid enough. He has saved us a few times throughout this campaign mostly from Belgium or Russia scoring more and our is Clarke's number 1.

Palmer - his best match. Clever on the ball and did his basics - defending - well too. Dangerous on the break. Turns up and certainly a decent option to have as a squad or starter.

McKenna - had some good moments, but he looks so rushed/nervy at times. Absolutely leathering it out or to the opposition. Yes, clear your lines ; but wish he would have a wee look more and see often those times he punts it, he has more time. Did well though at tackling and defending. A work in progress.

Gallagher - really impressed me throughout the two games. I'd even be tempted to start him in March. A solid, no-nonsense defender ; a goal threat at corners and a bit of skill on him. Night and day the difference between his distribution and McKenna's. Found his man very regularly, and often not just Palmer or Taylor ; finding McGinn, Jack, McGregor at times with his passing. A very impressive return of games.

Taylor - another solid game. for someone who's hardly played in 6 weeks. Fast, skillful and a hard worker. Really hope he can push in to the Celtic team and get some game time.

Jack - outstanding. What a vital and important player he could well be for us. Wins the tackle ; finds his man ; holds on to the ball ; and calms everything down as well. An excellent few games and well deserved call up and start.

McGregor - excellent performance. I love that wee dummy then run he does, gliding through their midfield in to space. His delivery was good as well and after a couple of average games for Scotland ; he certainly was back to top form.

Forrest - did well in beating his men, but final pass/ball/shot was lacking. He did OK, but just feel we should be getting more from him in the final third.

Christie - a quiet game from his standard. I thought he was excellent on Saturday, more reserved today and seemed frustrated with himself. I'll take it though. A superb performance followed up by a decent if not superb one in the next game.

Naismith - works hard, and certainly could have scored a couple more. Fortunate for the goal and still not keen on the niggling/mouthing he does at times - but it's part of his game. Did well enough in both games, but we really need some firepower coming through soon.

After a disastrous start to the campaign and a very tough slog of summer games ; we've done what had to be done - we've won 3 games on the bounce albeit San Marino, Cyprus and Kazakhstan ; but we needed that! Clarke now has a 50% win rate. Just a shame these playoffs are not in December, but roll on Friday and see who we get.

Getting to the Euros will be a tough task. We'll be playing better sides than the three we've just beaten, but we do have a home and rocking, sold-out Hampden to look forward too. We may have some luck of the green with the draw and a potential home final, we'll soon find out.

Let's give it a good fécking go!

 

 

Good post.

We really a full stadium in March to push them on . There was more effort and skill last night than I have seen in a long time, but they will have to lift their game again to perform that way against stronger opponents.  

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8 hours ago, ceudmilefailte said:

The only reason this is getting looked at is because it resulted in a goal. 9 times out of 10 there isn't a wonder strike at the end of it.

If you want to start saying the guy who lost the ball at the halfway line is to blame perhaps you should check how often other players lose the ball.

With a goal like that you should really compare it with every other chance we give away that could have resulted in the same outcome had there been some brilliance at the end of it.

Not really, there were a couple of mistakes in the lead up to the goal that caused us to concede.  

The fact that we may have made other mistakes that either the opposition didn't take advantage of or which we were able to correct isnt relevant.   We're - as a team - too prone to individual errors and that's costing us, you only need to look at the number of goals we concede and the manner we lose them to see that.   

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McKenna isn’t as good as some have made him out to be. But he isn’t nearly as bad as many make out either. He should still be learning at club level, but such is the dearth of options we have at CB he is having to do it as first pick in that position for the national side. 

The truth is that no one else has made a convincing case for inclusion. Souttar has obvious promise, but has missed a lot of football for someone at the start of his career. And he is as prone as McKenna to the odd bombscare. The rest are all a bit ‘meh’, other than Devlin, (who is just a bit shit) and Mulgrew (who is just finished). Cooper, Findlay, Lindsay - who knows? The guy at St Johnstone was getting talked up a few months back, seems to have gone backwards. I think Halkett will be better than most of them, but injury again there. I thought Gallagher looked OK, he looks to have a bit about him.

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16 minutes ago, Pool Q said:

McKenna isn’t as good as some have made him out to be. But he isn’t nearly as bad as many make out either. He should still be learning at club level, but such is the dearth of options we have at CB he is having to do it as first pick in that position for the national side. 

The truth is that no one else has made a convincing case for inclusion. Souttar has obvious promise, but has missed a lot of football for someone at the start of his career. And he is as prone as McKenna to the odd bombscare. The rest are all a bit ‘meh’, other than Devlin, (who is just a bit shit) and Mulgrew (who is just finished). Cooper, Findlay, Lindsay - who knows? The guy at St Johnstone was getting talked up a few months back, seems to have gone backwards. I think Halkett will be better than most of them, but injury again there. I thought Gallagher looked OK, he looks to have a bit about him.

Still learning? He’s not 18. 

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Keep reading whether McKenna or Palmer was at fault for the goal we lost. We won 3-1 and for the first time in years we have a chance of qualifying for a major tournament so would rather look ahead to that. We also missed a good few chances but don't see any names mentioned for that.

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37 minutes ago, Pool Q said:

McKenna isn’t as good as some have made him out to be. But he isn’t nearly as bad as many make out either. He should still be learning at club level, but such is the dearth of options we have at CB he is having to do it as first pick in that position for the national side. 

The truth is that no one else has made a convincing case for inclusion. Souttar has obvious promise, but has missed a lot of football for someone at the start of his career. And he is as prone as McKenna to the odd bombscare. The rest are all a bit ‘meh’, other than Devlin, (who is just a bit shit) and Mulgrew (who is just finished). Cooper, Findlay, Lindsay - who knows? The guy at St Johnstone was getting talked up a few months back, seems to have gone backwards. I think Halkett will be better than most of them, but injury again there. I thought Gallagher looked OK, he looks to have a bit about him.

McKenna has just come back from a long injury. Players of his build take a while to get properly match sharp. He could have done a Tierney but he didn’t.

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Excellent second half from Scotland.  Clarke's half time talk certainly did something as we came back out playing pretty well and with a lot of confidence throughout the team.  Some really good individual performances too. Clarke deserves credit for playing McGinn further up the field and for picking Naismith.  I will admit that when I saw Naismith was starting in Cyprus i was pretty firmly in the "Clarke is clueless" camp.  McGinn has pretty much stamped a "vital for Scotland" tag on himself now and I think we also finally have a right back. 

As for the McKenna bashing (which seems all the rage just now and i suspect in part because Aberdeen dared to believe he was worth some money), I actually thought he was a little ropey and very ordinary for 3/4's of this double header.  However, when the confidence returned throughout the team in the second half yesterday, it did with McKenna too and I thought he was very good.  He's just back from injury too which won't have helped.  I don't think we have any better at the moment and as the confidence returns to the team and Mckenna gets fitter again, I think he'll be absolutely fine. I'd like to demonstrate that these comments aren't made through red tinted specs by saying that i thought Jack was superb in the second half last night.

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About the goal..

I'm not sure there's a lot wrong with the pass from Gallagher, other than it probably shouldn't have gone to Palmer in the first place.

Kazakhstan stepped up as the ball was in-flight, so Palmer suddenly has a guy in his face and has to play it immediately.

He tries to poke it inside to Christie, but again the Kazakh player has stepped up and Christie's not moved, so it's an easy interception.

So kinda 3 errors already by this point.

Jack steps up and across to cover the player behind Palmer, who Palmer is getting back to cover anyway, leaving a massive gap for Kazakhstan to roll the ball thru to Shchetkin.

Jack then does his customary slow jog recovery, making zero effort to put pressure on the ball carrier at all.

McGregor leaves his man to try and pressure the ball when he shouldn't. His man is the only guy that Shchetkin can pass to.. so Mcgregor leaves his man and gets himself lost in no mans land where he can affect absolutely nothing. McGregor just needs to stay with his man, and let Jack and Gallagher pressure the isolated ball carrier.

McKenna backs off too much, giving too much room for the shot, especially given he has support from Taylor and Gallagher on each side. Zaynutdinov is not going to burst past him because of those two supporting players, so it's safe to close.

In the end it's a fantastic shot.

Errors by 6 players contributing to it. But I mainly lay the blame at the door of the two center mids, as usual.

I can understand why Jack stepped across, tho he should trust Palmer to get back and block the more dangerous pass himself. He should also make the effort to recover once Shchetkin has the ball, something Jack really never does. He seems to very easily decide that he's out of the game and can't affect anything so why should he bother trying. That's disappointing to see (repeatedly) and will cost us over and over until he changes.

McGregor is just a foolish, headless chicken in that moment. No defensive awareness or understanding of "what must happen next". If he tracks his man, Shchetkin has no pass and he's isolated, closed down and we win the ball back. Literally the only way something happens is if McGregor abandons his defensive duty to chase the ball for no reason, giving Shchetkin a man to pass to.

Gallagher's pass isn't the right choice. Palmer's under pressure and shouldn't be given the ball. Palmer doesn't get the ball away to Christie perfectly and Christie doesn't come to it to help. These are things that will happen in a game. Your defensive mids are there to make sure that nothing comes of it when it does. And both of ours basically downed tools in this moment. It's not good enough.

 

Edited by andyD
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32 minutes ago, andyD said:

 

I can understand why Jack stepped across, tho he should trust Palmer to get back and block the more dangerous pass himself. He should also make the effort to recover once Shchetkin has the ball, something Jack really never does. He seems to very easily decide that he's out of the game and can't affect anything so why should he bother trying. That's disappointing to see (repeatedly) and will cost us over and over until he changes.

McGregor is just a foolish, headless chicken in that moment. No defensive awareness or understanding of "what must happen next". If he tracks his man, Shchetkin has no pass and he's isolated, closed down and we win the ball back. Literally the only way something happens is if McGregor abandons his defensive duty to chase the ball for no reason, giving Shchetkin a man to pass to.

 

 

This is the key error that leads directly to the goal.   The guy who lays the ball off is free and unmarked between four players - McKenna, Jack, McGregor and Gallagher (just out of shot where the X is).

McGregor gets sucked towards the ball and leaves his man (the guy who scores).   That means he's 1 on 1 with McKenna.   Jack doesn't track back quickly enough, Gallagher could possibly step up to press the ball but McGregor shouldn't be leaving his man.  If he tracks the runner then there's no option for the pass.

 

Annotation 2019-11-20 112141.jpg

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4 hours ago, Alan said:

Agree with @weekevie04 and also John McGinn was pretty good.

Is Clarke going to get these players before play offs?  Imagine even a 2 day session to get shape and tactics into their heads.

At the moment we are looking at

Marshall GK

Tierney/Robertson LB

McKenna altho he's still ropey is it down to injury recovery? CH

CH up for grabs Souttar/Bates/Mulgrew etc

Palmer/Tierney RB

Jack/McTominay CM

MacGregor CM

Forrest LM but he does not deliver like he does for Celtic

McGinn #10

Christie RM

Griffiths/Naismith CF

Weakest areas are in the 2 boxes.  Central defence and centre forward.

Fraser?

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4 hours ago, Alan said:

 

Forrest LM but he does not deliver like he does for Celtic

 

 

Thought he was our best player in the first half but no were near as good in the second half when moved to the right.

Or maybe he just wasn't as noticeable in the second half as so many players played better than they had in the first

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54 minutes ago, SMcoolJ said:

Excellent second half from Scotland.  Clarke's half time talk certainly did something as we came back out playing pretty well and with a lot of confidence throughout the team.  Some really good individual performances too. Clarke deserves credit for playing McGinn further up the field and for picking Naismith.  I will admit that when I saw Naismith was starting in Cyprus i was pretty firmly in the "Clarke is clueless" camp.  McGinn has pretty much stamped a "vital for Scotland" tag on himself now and I think we also finally have a right back. 

As for the McKenna bashing (which seems all the rage just now and i suspect in part because Aberdeen dared to believe he was worth some money), I actually thought he was a little ropey and very ordinary for 3/4's of this double header.  However, when the confidence returned throughout the team in the second half yesterday, it did with McKenna too and I thought he was very good.  He's just back from injury too which won't have helped.  I don't think we have any better at the moment and as the confidence returns to the team and Mckenna gets fitter again, I think he'll be absolutely fine. I'd like to demonstrate that these comments aren't made through red tinted specs by saying that i thought Jack was superb in the second half last night.

Completely agree with this. Heard an interview with Clarke a couple of days ago and he was emphasising how you cannot underestimate how the results from  a run of games can negatively or positively influence the players. 
Last night for me was a perfect example of this. The team were passing snd linking with confidence and playing at the level most of us know they can play yet just haven't been doing it for Scotland. At times I wondered if it was indeed Scotland I was watching and that I simply wasnt hallucinating due to frostbite in the baltic conditions of an empty Hampden. 
McGinn was  outstanding but I also feel Naismith was in no small way a huge influence on the overall mental attitude of the team. 
 

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happy we've won but i think we still look very naive at the back.  both cyprus and kazahstan would often win the first ball on the break, turn and we were out of of position.  good teams would have caused lots more problems.

going forward we look much better though.  good to see mcginn in a more attacking role.  he gets caught playing the defensive position.

anyway i'm all for giving these lads the chance over the primadonnas.

well done Scotland. incredible we're a few gams away from qualifying!

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1 hour ago, aaid said:

This is the key error that leads directly to the goal.   The guy who lays the ball off is free and unmarked between four players - McKenna, Jack, McGregor and Gallagher (just out of shot where the X is).

McGregor gets sucked towards the ball and leaves his man (the guy who scores).   That means he's 1 on 1 with McKenna.   Jack doesn't track back quickly enough, Gallagher could possibly step up to press the ball but McGregor shouldn't be leaving his man.  If he tracks the runner then there's no option for the pass.

 

Annotation 2019-11-20 112141.jpg

I think this highlights, again, the problem of not having a naturally defensive minded player playing in one of these deeper midfield roles. A good one would, as you say, not leave his man and concentrate in getting back to help the defence rather than chasing the ball. Jack is still my best hope, of available players, for that role as he "gets stuck in". Everyone else who we have played there is midfielders whose instinct is to get forward.

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Was disappointed with Jack last night. Unless he improves then he’s not the answer. The times our defence had pressure on them it was because the opposition had just ghosted past him or McGregor (I can’t remember the last stand out performance he had) with Jack especially making little effort to chase back. Not what we need from our supposed anchorman.

hopefully we look a bit more solid with McTominay back and if Allan Campbell can play well in the next few months then maybe he’s worth looking at?

 

Glad to see such a good performance from Palmer after all the stick he got on here before the game.

Id love a settled back line but personally I’d  go for Gallagher & Findlay going forward when the latter is fit again.

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