Texas Pete Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 1 hour ago, vanderark14 said: It has to be a win on tuesday and I believe we will win. Agreed. 3-0 Scotland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Pete Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 1 hour ago, aaid said: Finishing third in this group might have been considered okay if we'd finished a close third behind Russia, if we'd been competitive in the group and there was confidence that we were putting a decent team together. None of those are the case. Absolutely agree but third is third. If the Nations League hasn’t been brought in then we would get a playoff by finishing third which is as good as we’ve done in years. Are the playoffs where we want to be? Ideally no but I’m afraid we weren’t anywhere near good enough to qualify automatically. With the players we have we should be a hell of a lot closer to Russia but the fact is as soon as we lost our opening game we were never going to get second. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceudmilefailte Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 Just now, Texas Pete said: Absolutely agree but third is third. If the Nations League hasn’t been brought in then we would get a playoff by finishing third which is as good as we’ve done in years. Are the playoffs where we want to be? Ideally no but I’m afraid we weren’t anywhere near good enough to qualify automatically. With the players we have we should be a hell of a lot closer to Russia but the fact is as soon as we lost our opening game we were never going to get second. Just shows you how easy it is to get third which makes you wonder who the likes of Albania beat to qualify last time. Assuming Cyprus were 4th seeds any on know the last time we beat the 4th seeds home and away Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 51 minutes ago, Bobby Russell's Lovechild said: At least Fletcher scored a decent amount of goals in the epl He really didn't, unless you think 53 goals over seven seasons is a decent return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Russell's Lovechild Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 9 minutes ago, aaid said: He really didn't, unless you think 53 goals over seven seasons is a decent return. He was top scorers for a poor Burnley side with 8, then scored 10 for a poor wolves side. He also managed to score 53 goals in the premiership, so McBurnie has a long way to go to match that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marky Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Tartan Chris said: Really? Cyprus away is not easier than Bulgaria at home particularly as for that game you'd like to think some of the better players might not get injured for that period.... Basically any away win to a team better than likes of San Marino, Andorra etc is a good away win to me in this period. Let's put it this way Cyprus aren't any worse than Kazhakstan given they are level on points in the group. Guess it's simplistic but so far for me Clarke has won all the games he was expected to and all the games he's lost he was expected to so very much par so far either if you can obviously adjust that lower for individual games which many are doing. He gets judged March 2020, simple as that. I’m sorry mate, but I completely disagree with this post in every sense. I was delighted with the Nations League results against Israel and Albania because as a realist I accepted that by the very nature of the Nations League these teams were “our level” and we beat them playing for the most part reasonably entertaining football. If you are now claiming that Cyprus is our level then we really are fucked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenfrewBlue Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 6 hours ago, vanderark14 said: Fantastic goal too Not seen it yet but looking forward to the highlights tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfingers Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 28 minutes ago, Marky said: I’m sorry mate, but I completely disagree with this post in every sense. I was delighted with the Nations League results against Israel and Albania because as a realist I accepted that by the very nature of the Nations League these teams were “our level” and we beat them playing for the most part reasonably entertaining football. If you are now claiming that Cyprus is our level then we really are fucked. Surely not if we just beat them home and away with some players injured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brummie Hibs Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 McGinn is probably Scotland most valuable player currently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marky Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 24 minutes ago, bigfingers said: Surely not if we just beat them home and away with some players injured. He was suggesting that away to Cyprus is a harder game than home to Bulgaria and that we should be happy that we managed to squeak a couple of lucky wins against them. He was also saying that we should expect to lose at home to Russia and even more bizarrely away to Kazakhstan. The only games we should have been expecting to lose would be against Belgium and perhaps away to Russia. His post only goes to reaffirm tho my point earlier about just how incredibly far the expectations of the average Scotland fan have fallen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan Chris Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 1 hour ago, ceudmilefailte said: Just shows you how easy it is to get third which makes you wonder who the likes of Albania beat to qualify last time. Assuming Cyprus were 4th seeds any on know the last time we beat the 4th seeds home and away Albania actually finished 2nd in 2016 qualifiers, ahead of Denmark and Serbia so fantastic stuff from them in that period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan Chris Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Marky said: I’m sorry mate, but I completely disagree with this post in every sense. I was delighted with the Nations League results against Israel and Albania because as a realist I accepted that by the very nature of the Nations League these teams were “our level” and we beat them playing for the most part reasonably entertaining football. If you are now claiming that Cyprus is our level then we really are fucked. No I would expect to finish above Cyprus over 10 or 12 games. Just saying when you look at the away record since 2003, it's not very good even against the pots 4 and 5 in the group. Kazhakstan obviously, Georgia many times, Lithuania in the past, Slovenia, Slovakia, Macedonia, these are all losses against teams that have pretty much killed a qualification bid and I'd say all of them bar Slovakia are about the level of Cyprus. So I'm not sure why Clarke is getting stick for actually winning an away game especially without half the first choice team. For any hope of 2nd the damage was done in the first game especially as in the 2nd game Russia then went to Astana and won very comfortably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan Chris Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 11 minutes ago, Marky said: He was suggesting that away to Cyprus is a harder game than home to Bulgaria and that we should be happy that we managed to squeak a couple of lucky wins against them. He was also saying that we should expect to lose at home to Russia and even more bizarrely away to Kazakhstan. The only games we should have been expecting to lose would be against Belgium and perhaps away to Russia. His post only goes to reaffirm tho my point earlier about just how incredibly far the expectations of the average Scotland fan have fallen. Please say where I said Scotland shouldn't expect a result away to Kazhakstan? All I said is that first game killed the qualification bid from this group right there, you simply aren't recovering from that and getting second. That game had nothing to do with Steve Clarke anyway. A gritty 1-1 at home to Russia wouldn't have got second either. I fully expect to beat Bulgaria at home as from what I've seen of them in England's group they are a very poor team so actually arguably the weakest opponent in the whole nations league as they didn't win their group either (they actually drew 1-1 in Cyprus and also narrowly beat them 2-1 at home). Norway/Serbia will be much much harder. I would say that's logical given the 3-4 top class players in each squad compared to what Bulgaria can call upon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErsatzThistle Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 5 minutes ago, Tartan Chris said: So I'm not sure why Clarke is getting stick for actually winning an away game especially without half the first choice team. For any hope of 2nd the damage was done in the first game especially as in the 2nd game Russia then went to Astana and won very comfortably. Because miserable, negative, killjoys just love to moan about Scotland no matter what and say "I told you so...". Why they don't just have a cheery up wank instead I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Bobby Russell's Lovechild said: He was top scorers for a poor Burnley side with 8, then scored 10 for a poor wolves side. He also managed to score 53 goals in the premiership, so McBurnie has a long way to go to match that He does indeed but at least McBurnie has time on his side although I'm holding out much hope at this point. If you look back through Fletcher's career then he's not a prolific goalscorer, his career average in all competitions is a goal every 3.69 games which isn't great for a forward. The most goals he's scored in a season s 14 for Hibs 12 years ago. A good season for him is 11 or 12 goals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzohiggy Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 3 minutes ago, aaid said: He does indeed but at least McBurnie has time on his side although I'm holding out much hope at this point. If you look back through Fletcher's career then he's not a prolific goalscorer, his career average in all competitions is a goal every 3.69 games which isn't great for a forward. The most goals he's scored in a season s 14 for Hibs 12 years ago. A good season for him is 11 or 12 goals. Mcburnie has time, heading ability and absolutely f**k all else on his side. Fletcher was and arguably still is a vastly superior player. I don't even really like Fletcher that much 😬 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bino's Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 10 minutes ago, gonzohiggy said: Mcburnie has time, heading ability and absolutely f**k all else on his side. Fletcher was and arguably still is a vastly superior player. I don't even really like Fletcher that much 😬 Fletcher still playing every week for sheff wed He hasn't even bothered to officially retire he's such a cunt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Pete Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 2 hours ago, ceudmilefailte said: Just shows you how easy it is to get third which makes you wonder who the likes of Albania beat to qualify last time. Assuming Cyprus were 4th seeds any on know the last time we beat the 4th seeds home and away Fair point. Depends on your group and seeding of course. Our last Euro group wasn’t easy to finish third. We took 4 points off Ireland and 2 off Poland and still finished 4th. One bad result (and Germany slipping up against everyone but us) fucked us. As for the last time we beat the fourth seeds home and away, Iceland in 2003? Could be wrong and probably am but it’s been a long day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farcity Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 My unwanted two bobs worth. We finished third, which is where we should've finished. We aren't good enough to even threaten the better sides at a bouncing Hampden. Those days are long gone. We are at the stage where we should be expecting to win our home games against those around us and hope to pick up draws away to the same teams. We have been left behind, we can no longer out-muscle opponents, even Cyprus looked bigger and more athletic and, as usual, our technique is light years behind pretty much everyone. When you add into the mix the lack of fight, passion and desire we have then it's a pretty toxic mix. Even our support is pretty shit now. I've stopped going largely, though I went home and away for the best part of two decades. The travelling support barely even raised a song going. Something is badly wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bino's Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 5 minutes ago, Farcity said: My unwanted two bobs worth. We finished third, which is where we should've finished. We aren't good enough to even threaten the better sides at a bouncing Hampden. Those days are long gone. We are at the stage where we should be expecting to win our home games against those around us and hope to pick up draws away to the same teams. We have been left behind, we can no longer out-muscle opponents, even Cyprus looked bigger and more athletic and, as usual, our technique is light years behind pretty much everyone. When you add into the mix the lack of fight, passion and desire we have then it's a pretty toxic mix. Even our support is pretty shit now. I've stopped going largely, though I went home and away for the best part of two decades. The travelling support barely even raised a song going. Something is badly wrong. We aren't good enough to challenge anyone at a bouncing Hampden? N Ireland just drew against the Dutch They have one decent centre back and Josh magennis upfront If our players applied themselves and turned up we are easy good enough to compete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farcity Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 1 minute ago, Bino's said: We aren't good enough to challenge anyone at a bouncing Hampden? N Ireland just drew against the Dutch They have one decent centre back and Josh magennis upfront If our players applied themselves and turned up we are easy good enough to compete Why havent they then? We used to, but it's a long time since the big guns were even remotely bothered about turning up at Hampden, excepting England but that's slightly different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bino's Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 5 minutes ago, Farcity said: My unwanted two bobs worth. We finished third, which is where we should've finished. We aren't good enough to even threaten the better sides at a bouncing Hampden. Those days are long gone. We are at the stage where we should be expecting to win our home games against those around us and hope to pick up draws away to the same teams. We have been left behind, we can no longer out-muscle opponents, even Cyprus looked bigger and more athletic and, as usual, our technique is light years behind pretty much everyone. When you add into the mix the lack of fight, passion and desire we have then it's a pretty toxic mix. Even our support is pretty shit now. I've stopped going largely, though I went home and away for the best part of two decades. The travelling support barely even raised a song going. Something is badly wrong. We aren't good enough to challenge anyone at a bouncing Hampden? N Ireland just drew against the Dutch They have one decent centre back and Josh magennis upfront If our players applied themselves and turned up we are easy good enough to compete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bino's Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Farcity said: Why havent they then? We used to, but it's a long time since the big guns were even remotely bothered about turning up at Hampden, excepting England but that's slightly different. Because by and large they're a bunch of jumped up cunts Almost a full 11 of our highest paid players were not on the pitch tonight Edited November 16, 2019 by Bino's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marky Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, Tartan Chris said: Guess it's simplistic but so far for me Clarke has won all the games he was expected to and all the games he's lost he was expected to so very much par so far e 1 hour ago, Tartan Chris said: Please say where I said Scotland shouldn't expect a result away to Kazhakstan? Erm....right there. ETA..........ah you said Clarke, not Scotland. i take it back. Humble apologies. Edited November 16, 2019 by Marky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceudmilefailte Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 4 hours ago, Tartan Chris said: Guess it's simplistic but so far for me Clarke has won all the games he was expected to and all the games he's lost he was expected to so very much par so far either if you can obviously adjust that lower for individual games which many are doing. I think the manner of the defeats and the performance during the wins are well short of what you should expect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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