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mrniaboc

We just do not have the players

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1 minute ago, AndyDD said:

No, not in any way whatsoever. 

An international team is usually judged by how it does in international matches and tournaments.  

What a curious claim to make. 

Better players play for better teams.

Is this too tough a concept to understand?

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4 minutes ago, The_Dark_Knight said:

Without a doubt.

And no. Only McTominay, Tierney, Robertson have a chance of winning trophies outside Scotland. That's far from encouraging. And as far as United and Arsenal go, they're struggling.

I think you'll find that an international team is actually judged on their haircuts. 

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2 minutes ago, The_Dark_Knight said:

Better players play for better teams.

Is this too tough a concept to understand?

Aaaaaaaaaaand I'm done again. 

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2 minutes ago, mrniaboc said:

Hahahaha right?! 

"Without a doubt" - No! With many many many doubts mate! 

😂😂😂😂😂

Hahaha it's the use of the word 'usually' that got me. In what way is that the usual barometer for an international team? 

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Just now, mrniaboc said:

Hahahaha right?! 

"Without a doubt" - No! With many many many doubts mate! 

😂😂😂😂😂

Yeah. Well, no offence, but you aren't too sharp.

I mean, a guy LITERALLY says that you are one my aliases, and yet you still didn't seem to take it on board.

I'll make this simple. Better players for the best teams. The best team compete for major trophies.

In our squad for France 98 we had players who won eight major honours. Our current squad have won one. It's hardly a coincidence.

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2 minutes ago, AndyDD said:

Hahaha it's the use of the word 'usually' that got me. In what way is that the usual barometer for an international team? 

Do you know when a person has lost the argument?

When they go on mad targets and goes nuts with the sarcasm.

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3 minutes ago, AndyDD said:

Hahaha it's the use of the word 'usually' that got me. In what way is that the usual barometer for an international team? 

Hahaha yeah, in the way of the TDK. It's like an AI that has been trained to be wrong about things on football forums in the most frustrating way. 

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5 minutes ago, The_Dark_Knight said:

Better players play for better teams.

Is this too tough a concept to understand?

Of course it often goes hand in hand with a successful international team, but surely you would concede that the usual barometer for success in an international context is results in international tournaments and matches? 

If a team wins a world cup with less club cup winners in their team than a team that finishes 2nd, 3rd goes out in the group stages, surely the world cup winners are still regarded as the more successful international team? 

Your claim, no, your assertion, that an international team is usually judged on the number of club trophies/medals, beggars belief. It often serves as a good indication, sure, and there's usually a degree of overlap, no doubt about it. But that is not the way i have EVER seen an international team judged, never mind the usual way

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2 minutes ago, The_Dark_Knight said:

Do you know when a person has lost the argument?

When they go on mad targets and goes nuts with the sarcasm.

OK... (and I think you meant 'tangents'?) 

 

4 minutes ago, The_Dark_Knight said:

Yeah. Well, no offence, but you aren't too sharp.

I mean, a guy LITERALLY says that you are one my aliases, and yet you still didn't seem to take it on board.

Ah, I see thanks! 

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Just now, mrniaboc said:

Hahaha yeah, in the way of the TDK. It's like an AI that has been trained to be wrong about things on football forums in the most frustrating way. 

Ok. So, I'm wrong about that?

You can judge a team by the fewest domestic medals they win?

I'll say it again, sleep it off.

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1 minute ago, The_Dark_Knight said:

Ok. So, I'm wrong about that?

You can judge a team by the fewest domestic medals they win?

I'll say it again, sleep it off.

What's your training data set? Trump tweets? Do you use an adversarial neural net approach? 

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Just now, mrniaboc said:

OK... (and I think you meant 'tangents'?) 

 

Ah, I see thanks! 

Oh wait, is this the time you bring up your qualifications? PHD, is it?

You're a rocket scientist, you say?

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4 minutes ago, The_Dark_Knight said:

Ok. So, I'm wrong about that?

You can judge a team by the fewest domestic medals they win?

I'll say it again, sleep it off.

Yes I believe that you are wrong to assert that 'An international team is usually judged by how many domestic medals the players win'. 

I would contend that an international team is usually judged by their showings in international games and especially international tournaments. 

That is the barometer I usually see employed to judge international sides. Well, the FIFA rankings are also used a lot, albeit you could argue those are based on results, as well. 

Edited by AndyDD

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4 minutes ago, The_Dark_Knight said:

Oh wait, is this the time you bring up your qualifications? PHD, is it?

You're a rocket scientist, you say?

Not a rocket scientist, no. And I don't need to bring up my qualifications. I also don't need to insult anyone's intelligence. That's not what I'm on here for. I can admit when I'm wrong, or have made a mistake. You cannot. Doesn't mean you're any less intelligent. It just means you're less able to hold a reasonable conversation. 

Edited by mrniaboc

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1 minute ago, mrniaboc said:

Not a rocket scientist, no. And I don't need to bring up my qualifications. I also don't need to insult anyone's intelligence. That's not what I'm on here for. I can admit when I'm wrong, or have made a mistake. You cannot. Doesn't mean you're any less intelligent. It just means your less able to hold a reasonable conversation. 

Oh really, you've mentioned it quite a lot. For someone who accuses me of being repetitive you've got the market cornered on bringing up qualifications.

You can admit being wrong? Mate, you've just laughed in my face, at my suggestion that better players win major trophies. Which is quite bizarre, even for this place.

Dude, a guy accused you and I of being the same person and you claimed that I was wrong, and that he was joking.

Two instances of you being wrong. Doubt you'll admit it, though, as I get the impression you like being on the side of the masses.

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TDK, you insult my intelligence. You call me an alcoholic. Do you really think this is a reasonable way to treat someone? Especially someone who has been lenient on you, and even defended you in the past. Never once called for your banning from the site, even though you have been banned. You claim to be the one who never offers offensive language towards others on here too!

I think you should have a real good look at yourself here. You've turned a simple mistake on your behalf into a much bigger deal yet again. Why do you do it?

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2 minutes ago, The_Dark_Knight said:

You can admit being wrong? Mate, you've just laughed in my face, at my suggestion that better players win major trophies. Which is quite bizarre, even for this place. 

Argh! I didn't laugh in your face at this suggestion. We all know better players win major trophies. That's not what you said! 

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Just now, mrniaboc said:

TDK, you insult my intelligence. You call me an alcoholic. Do you really think this is a reasonable way to treat someone? Especially someone who has been lenient on you, and even defended you in the past. Never once called for your banning from the site, even though you have been banned. You claim to be the one who never offers offensive language towards others on here too!

I think you should have a real good look at yourself here. You've turned a simple mistake on your behalf into a much bigger deal yet again. Why do you do it?

How can I insult your intelligence when you have a, what is it? PHD?

At the weekend you came one and pretty said that you were done. I honestly thought you were drunk. I'm not the only one who said so.

You've been "lenient" on me? Oh, thanks... Damocles.

Hmmm.. No. I said that an international team is judged by the amount of domestic trophies their players win. For some weird reason, you and AndyDD find that a hoot. Two on one. Nice. And yet you say I'm to blame.

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14 minutes ago, The_Dark_Knight said:

Oh really, you've mentioned it quite a lot. For someone who accuses me of being repetitive you've got the market cornered on bringing up qualifications.

Oh really? Apologies, I genuinely didn't think I brought it up that much. For what it's worth, I did what may be regarded as the worst PhD in history and barely scrapped by with my academic reputation intact. None of which qualifies me to talk about football anyway! 

Edited by mrniaboc

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3 minutes ago, The_Dark_Knight said:

How can I insult your intelligence when you have a, what is it? PHD?

At the weekend you came one and pretty said that you were done. I honestly thought you were drunk. I'm not the only one who said so.

You've been "lenient" on me? Oh, thanks... Damocles.

Hmmm.. No. I said that an international team is judged by the amount of domestic trophies their players win. For some weird reason, you and AndyDD find that a hoot. Two on one. Nice. And yet you say I'm to blame.

Does that make you Dionysius? You shouldn't live in that much fear mate. 

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38 minutes ago, The_Dark_Knight said:

How can I insult your intelligence when you have a, what is it? PHD?

At the weekend you came one and pretty said that you were done. I honestly thought you were drunk. I'm not the only one who said so.

You've been "lenient" on me? Oh, thanks... Damocles.

Hmmm.. No. I said that an international team is judged by the amount of domestic trophies their players win. For some weird reason, you and AndyDD find that a hoot. Two on one. Nice. And yet you say I'm to blame.

It's not a fight. 

Both of us clearly happened to disagree with the assertion that the usual way international teams are judged is by the number of domestic trophies won by their players with their clubs. Both myself and mrniaboc disagreeing with what you have said is not some conspiracy against you or attack on you. We both just happen to think that's not right. Like when both you and I think the isreal away game is not legitimate grounds to dismiss 3 at the back out of hand. I cou;couldn't care less which person posted that assertion, I was always going to be replying to it with no small amount of bafflement.

This isnae school, it's no a popularity contest or a social circle. It's mostly strangers on the internet talking about football. And two of us happened to both pick up on one comment of yours which we both think is incorrect. 

And for what it's worth, yes, I did laugh with incredulity at the assertion you made. It's a silly one. We all make them. 

 

 

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3 hours ago, mrniaboc said:

I spent most of yesterday marking student essays and had to remind many of them to add references to their statements, especially if they are as unfounded as this one. Do you have a reference here? 

You asked for references.

My exact words were "An International team is usually judged by how many domestic medals the players win" - Looking back at the most recent international tournament (FIFA 2018 World Cup), that's exactly how it transpired. Of the remaining four teams at the end of the World Cup, the international team that had the most accumulative domestic medals won the tournament. The team who won the fewest domestic trophies finished fourth and last of the remaining four teams. 

I added up the domestic medal haul of the starting XI of the 3/4th placed play-off and the final.

Here are the final placings of the FIFA World Cup 2018. And unsurprisingly, it proves my point. The winner of the FIFA World Cup 2018 was France (14 domestic medals in the 17/18 season), second place went to Croatia (9 domestic medals in the 17/18 season), third place went to Belgium (8 domestic medals in the 17/18 season), and fourth went to England (4 domestic medals in the 17/18 season)

1st Place: France:

Hugo Lloris: Tottenham: (0)
Benjamin Pavard: VfB Stuttgart: (0
Raphaël Varane: Real Madrid: European Cup, European Super cup, FIFA Club World Cup (3)
Samuel Umtiti: Barcelona: La Liga, Copa del Rey (2)
Lucas Hernandez: Atletico Madrid: Europa League (1)
Paul Pogba: Manchester United: (0)
N'Golo Kanté: Chelsea: FA Cup (1)
Kylian Mbappé: PSG: Ligue 1, Coupe de France, Coupe de la Ligue (3)
Antoine Griezmann: Atletico Madrid: Europa League (1)
Blaise Matuidi: Juventus: Serie A, Coppa Italia (2)
Olivier Giroud: Chelsea: FA Cup (1)

Total Major Trophies: 14

---

2nd Place: Croatia

Danijel Subašić: Monaco: (0)
Šime Vrsaljko: Atletico Madrid: Europa League (1)
Dejan Lovren: Liverpool: (0)
Domagoj Vida: N/A* (0)
Ivan Strinić: N/A* (0)
Ivan Rakitić: Barcelona: La Liga, Copa del Rey, Supercopa de Espana (2)
Marcelo Brozović: Inter Milan: (0)
Ante Rebić: Eintracht Frankfurt: DFB-Pokal (1)
Luka Modrić: Real Madrid: European Cup, EUFA Super Cup, FIFA Club World Cup (3)
Ivan Perišić: Inter Milan: (0)
Mario Mandžukić: Juventus: Serie A, Coppa Italia (2)

Total Major Trophies: 9

---

3rd Place: Belgium

Thibaut Courtois: Chelsea: FA Cup (1)
Toby Alderweireld: Tottenham: (0)
Vincent Kompany: Manchester City: EPL, League Cup (2)
Jan Vertonghen: Tottenham: (0)
Thomas Meunier: PSG: Ligue 1, Coupe de France, Coupe de la Ligue (3)
Youri Tielemans: Monaco: (0)
Axel Witsel: N/A* (0)
Nacer Chadli: WBA: (0)
Kevin De Bruyne: Manchester City: EPL, League Cup (2)
Romelu Lukaku: Manchester United: (0)
Eden Hazard: Chelsea: (0)

Total Major Trophies: 8

---

4th Place: England

Jordan Pickford: Everton: (0)
Phil Jones: Manchester United: (0)
John Stones: Manchester City: EPL, League Cup (2)
Harry Maguire: Leicester City: (0)
Eric Dier: Tottenham: (0)
Ruben Loftus-Cheek: Chelsea: (0)
Fabian Delph: Manchester City: EPL (1)
Kieran Trippier: Tottenham: (0)
Danny Rose: Tottenham: (0)
Raheem Sterling: Manchester City: EPL (1)
Harry Kane: Tottenham: (0)

Total Major Trophies: 4

---

*Denotes clubs that aren't in the top four leagues. (Italy, England, Spain, Germany)

It's exactly what I thought at the time, England greatly over-achieved.

And looking back to France 98, with our squad winning eight major trophies in the 97/98 season, it goes to show just how better we were back then, as opposed to how we are now.

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And to put into perspective, what some people just don't get. This is our first XI against San Marino:

Scotland 18/19

Jon McLaughlin: N/A (0)
Andrew Robertson: Liverpool: European Cup (1)
Stuard Findlay: N/A (0)
Michael Devlin: N/A (0)
Liam Palmer: N/A (0)
Callum McGregor: N/A (0)
Scott McTominay: Manchester United (0)
James Forrest: N/A (0)
Ryan Fraser: Bournemouth (0)
John McGinn: Aston Villa (0)
Lawrence Shankland: N/A (0)

Total Major Trophies: 1

This is why we don't qualify for tournaments. Very few of our players are winners.

And yes, the title of this thread is spot-on. We DON'T have the players.

Edited by The_Dark_Knight
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