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We just do not have the players


mrniaboc

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Clarke has been very unlucky in coming into the job with no quality in defence bar Robertson, and without a decent striker. Added to that we've played arguably the best side in the world - Belgium twice, and a very good Russian side twice. Those results were probably to be expected. What has been disappointing has been the performances. He needs to fit those players named above into a team which is topped up with lesser talents. Gilmour seems ready now and Tierney is quality. Hope for the future with some decent young players coming through.

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On 11/1/2019 at 11:50 PM, mrniaboc said:

Andy Robertson 

Scott McTominay 

Ryan Fraser 

John McGinn 

Kieran Tierney 

Billy Gilmour 

 

I'm so done with this argument. 

And counting. It was only a few years ago that we were all scouring through English championship teams for regular Scottish starters. Now, I barely check. 

There is a very obvious up turn in quality lately. We have been unfortunate to have a disproportionate amount coming through that aren't defenders. But the signs are there.

In a few years time, we might actually have a full starting 11 that we can trust. We don't yet have a quality 23 man pool of players, but 12-15 would do for our purposes. We aren't far away from that.

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Guest ElChris04

From the current group the core of the team is 

Robertson

Tierney 

Forrest 

Fraser

McGinn

McTominay 

Christie 
 

there’s the standouts. 
 

then we have the promising youth of 

Gilmour 

Johnston

Hornby

Hickey 

Porteous 

Doohan

that imo are ready for a call up 
 

We have plenty more promising youth but I feels the names I mentioned are the ones who are ready for the main team, however it comes down to our defence and goalkeeper and right now there simply not good enough. If we implement players such as Hickey, Porteous and even Doohan to get experience I feel it would upgrade our defence massively along with Tierney and Robertson in Iraq. 

Edited by ElChris04
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4 hours ago, ElChris04 said:

then we have the promising youth of 

Gilmour 

Johnston

Hornby

Hickey 

Porteous 

Doohan

that imo are ready for a call up 
 

I like Hickey and think he has a big future but as evidenced today he is nowhere near ready for defending at full international level. Let him serve his time in the U-19s and U-21s first. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Toepoke said:

I like Hickey and think he has a big future but as evidenced today he is nowhere near ready for defending at full international level. Let him serve his time in the U-19s and U-21s first. 

 

 

Beat me to it. Cracking young player but miles away from full international level. 

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Yes smaller nations (eg Iceland) some of who have poorer players than us (eg Northern Ireland) do better than us. Almost every smaller country on the continent (Croatia, Slovenia etc) have players with better basic skills at full international and club level.

 

So what's different about Scotland?

 

1 We produce, and keep producing players who do well in the age group international set ups but rarely fulfil that early promise. Bad coaching? Evil agents? Scottish bevvy culture? Take your pick

2 We have a national FA that doesn't give a moneky's as long as we keep turning up.

3 Our domestic game is largely run by and for two monolothic clubs who oppose any change that doesn't suit them and the ruling body is subservient to them (see 2 above). This skews the player market, youth development and the competitiveness of the game.

 

Not saying these are the reasons the team struggles. They are just indiginous negative things about Scottish football that must, surely, be taken into cnsideration..

 

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1 hour ago, KirkieRobRoy said:

Yes smaller nations (eg Iceland) some of who have poorer players than us (eg Northern Ireland) do better than us. Almost every smaller country on the continent (Croatia, Slovenia etc) have players with better basic skills at full international and club level.

 

So what's different about Scotland?

 

1 We produce, and keep producing players who do well in the age group international set ups but rarely fulfil that early promise. Bad coaching? Evil agents? Scottish bevvy culture? Take your pick

2 We have a national FA that doesn't give a moneky's as long as we keep turning up.

3 Our domestic game is largely run by and for two monolothic clubs who oppose any change that doesn't suit them and the ruling body is subservient to them (see 2 above). This skews the player market, youth development and the competitiveness of the game.

 

Not saying these are the reasons the team struggles. They are just indiginous negative things about Scottish football that must, surely, be taken into cnsideration..

 

The amount of non Scots playing in our domestic league stifling the pathway for youth development is the primary issue.

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The Old Firm are an easy target. The other 10 SPL clubs have to take as much blame as the Old Firm.

The other ten club's bread and butter is facing the Old Firm 4 times per season. In a perfect world the SPL would be 16/18 teams, but the other ten would never vote for this, as they'd take a financial hit by not facing Celtic and Rangers 4 times per season.

As for the young players being stifled, the simple solution to that is introducing a homegrown rule.

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1 hour ago, ProudScot said:

The amount of non Scots playing in our domestic league stifling the pathway for youth development is the primary issue.

This IMO is the biggest issue. Back when we were half decent there were very few non Scots in our domestic game.

 

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We don’t really have an identity as a country, technique, fitness, tactics, strength, most teams in Europe dominate us in all these categories. 

Producing a handful of promising 16 year olds isn’t nearly enough when the % that make the grade at international level is so low. Fundamentally we don’t coach well enough, and a growing mental weakness has crept in as well. 

I’ve resigned myself to accepting our place in football, fluctuating between the 3rd and 4th tier and hoping for the odd upset against better teams.

Edited by ParisInAKilt
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10 hours ago, Toepoke said:

This IMO is the biggest issue. Back when we were half decent there were very few non Scots in our domestic game.

 

When we were half decent we could afford to keep decent Scottish players in Scotland.

The league is so much weaker(Celtic and Rangers included)it should be easier for young players to break through even if it is flooded  by Englich mediocrity.

Next to no cash was spent on youth development for close to 20 years, hopefully  recent investment will rectify the lack of talent and young players will come through.

I honestly don't think our young talent was blocked by the amount of poor non Scots players in the league, there just wasn't any due to poor coaching and investment., the rest of Europe has had a 10 year start on us with regards to this. Investment is the only reason a non footballing nation like Iceland got to were it is.

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On 11/1/2019 at 11:50 PM, mrniaboc said:

Andy Robertson 

Scott McTominay 

Ryan Fraser 

John McGinn 

Kieran Tierney 

Billy Gilmour 

 

I'm so done with this argument. 

I really hope you're done with the argument, as it's not really much of an argument.

An international team is usually judged by how many domestic medals the players win*. Of the six players that you listed, only one has a chance of winning at least one major trophy Robertson: European Cup, FA Cup, EPL)

McTominay might be able to sneak a League Cup or an FA Cup win. Doubt it, though. Same with Tierney.

Fraser will finish mid-table. McGinn will probably get relegated and Gilmour will be lucky to play 10 EPL matches this season.

So no, we don't have the players. We really don't.

*I'm not counting the tin-pot trophies/medals that Celtic players win.

Edited by The_Dark_Knight
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12 minutes ago, The_Dark_Knight said:

I really hope you're done with the argument, as it's not really much of an argument.

An international team is usually judged by how many domestic medals the players win*. Of the six players that you listed, only one has a chance of winning at least one major trophy Robertson: European Cup, FA Cup, EPL)

McTominay might be able to sneak a League Cup or an FA Cup win. Doubt it, though. Same with Tierney.

Fraser will finish mid-table. McGinn will probably get relegated and Gilmour will be lucky to play 10 EPL matches this season.

So no, we don't have the players. We really don't.

*I'm not counting the tin-pot trophies/medals that Celtic players win.

I spent most of yesterday marking student essays and had to remind many of them to add references to their statements, especially if they are as unfounded as this one. Do you have a reference here? 

Also, the players mentioned are all still young. That's one of the most exciting things about it. You seem to think that they have been around for the last two decades and have failed along with Scotland in that time, but they were not even in primary school until after France '98. I'm not talking about 5 years ago, 10 years ago, 20 years ago, I'm talking about right now. We have good players, and more than enough of them to be doing a lot better than we are. 

Hey! Maybe I'm not done after all? 

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1 minute ago, mrniaboc said:

I spent most of yesterday marking student essays and had to remind many of them to add references to their statements, especially if they are as unfounded as this one. Do you have a reference here? 

Also, the players mentioned are all still young. That's one of the most exciting things about it. You seem to think that they have been around for the last two decades and have failed along with Scotland in that time, but they were not even in primary school until after France '98. I'm not talking about 5 years ago, 10 years ago, 20 years ago, I'm talking about right now. We have good players, and more than enough of them to be doing a lot better than we are. 

Hey! Maybe I'm not done after all? 

How is it unfounded? It's common sense. The better the international team, the more domestic medals they'll win. 

Since you mentioned 98, let's start from there: Gallagher and Hendry (Blackburn: EPL); John Collins (Monaco: Ligue 1); Paul Lambert (Borussia Dortmund: European Cup).

That's four major trophies to our current one.

I'd say that you're reaching.

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3 minutes ago, The_Dark_Knight said:

How is it unfounded? It's common sense. The better the international team, the more domestic medals they'll win. 

Since you mentioned 98, let's start from there: Gallagher and Hendry (Blackburn: EPL); John Collins (Monaco: Ligue 1); Paul Lambert (Borussia Dortmund: European Cup).

That's four major trophies to our current one.

I'd say that you're reaching.

So you genuinely think an international team is usually judged more by the domestic medals won by its players than by its results in international matches do you?

The way you just blindly state your own skewed opinions as genuine fact, I'd say you're possibly Trump hahaha. You must be loving this post truth world mate. 

Also, you're telling me you don't think any of the players I mentioned will win domestic medals in their careers? 

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11 minutes ago, The_Dark_Knight said:

How is it unfounded? It's common sense. The better the international team, the more domestic medals they'll win. 

Since you mentioned 98, let's start from there: Gallagher and Hendry (Blackburn: EPL); John Collins (Monaco: Ligue 1); Paul Lambert (Borussia Dortmund: European Cup).

That's four major trophies to our current one.

I'd say that you're reaching.

Matt Elliot (Leicester city: FA Cup); Jim Leighton (Manchester United: FA Cup); Craig Burley (Chelsea: FA Cup)

Makes it eight major trophies.

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5 minutes ago, mrniaboc said:

So you genuinely think an international team is usually judged more by the domestic medals won by its players than by its results in international matches do you?

The way you just blindly state your own skewed opinions as genuine fact, I'd say you're possibly Trump hahaha. You must be loving this post truth world mate. 

Also, you're telling me you don't think any of the players I mentioned will win domestic medals in their careers? 

Without a doubt.

And no. Only McTominay, Tierney, Robertson have a chance of winning trophies outside Scotland. That's far from encouraging. And as far as United and Arsenal go, they're struggling.

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54 minutes ago, The_Dark_Knight said:

I really hope you're done with the argument, as it's not really much of an argument.

An international team is usually judged by how many domestic medals the players win*. Of the six players that you listed, only one has a chance of winning at least one major trophy Robertson: European Cup, FA Cup, EPL)

McTominay might be able to sneak a League Cup or an FA Cup win. Doubt it, though. Same with Tierney.

Fraser will finish mid-table. McGinn will probably get relegated and Gilmour will be lucky to play 10 EPL matches this season.

So no, we don't have the players. We really don't.

*I'm not counting the tin-pot trophies/medals that Celtic players win.

No, not in any way whatsoever. 

An international team is usually judged by how it does in international matches and tournaments.  

What a curious claim to make. 

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Just now, AndyDD said:

No, not in any way whatsoever. 

An international team is usually judged by how it does in international matches and tournaments.  

What a curious claim to make. 

Hahahaha right?! 

"Without a doubt" - No! With many many many doubts mate! 

😂😂😂😂😂

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