General Election 2019

[Hertsscot]

1 minute ago, Caledonian Craig said:

At present polls have support for independence averaging around 45% at present (higher in the better polls) so that support needs to rise a bit more. There is no rush to make it happen at present. We need to be patient, keep pouring the pressure on, keep winning elections in fine style and they cannot carry on saying No indefinitely..

The longer it goes on in some ways the better for independence as it will allow the negative effects of Brexit to begin to be seen as I do think we might see something of a Brexit Bounce.  If Boris refuses the SNP can still claim that they tried for a referendum in 2020.  To me the result on Thursday just showed that if you're a Lib Dem or Labour voter you now have a stark choice, you either vote for independence or you consent to the indefinite rule of a Tory Government and Scotland's subjugation to England.  I appreciate some of them probably won't understand that but the choice should have just become a whole lot clearer.

[ErsatzThistle]

21 minutes ago, Dave78 said:

You mention Cherry. There's also Mhairi Black, who called people with legitimate concerns about GRA reform "Jeremy Hunts", yet she's returned with an absolutely massive majority.

My conclusion is this stuff is only really a concern to political geeks like us, and even then it's minor*

 

*or should be. People like Wings are prepared to spoil their ballot just to make a point about it 🤦‍♀️

 

He has lost the plot.

[Toepoke]

22 minutes ago, Dave78 said:

You mention Cherry. There's also Mhairi Black, who called people with legitimate concerns about GRA reform "Jeremy Hunts", yet she's returned with an absolutely massive majority.

My conclusion is this stuff is only really a concern to political geeks like us, and even then it's minor*

 

*or should be. People like Wings are prepared to spoil their ballot just to make a point about it 🤦‍♀️

 

The guy's a roaster!

Given the battles he's fought over the years with the Wee Blue Book etc. he's picked a bizarre hill to die on...

 

[Caledonian Craig]

So this is what the unionists love clinging to:-

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/snp/alex-salmond/news/84391/alex-salmond-i-never-said-independence

So going by it all Salmond said was: "In my view this is a once in a generation - perhaps even a once in a lifetime - opportunity."

So in his view becomes him making a binding declaration.

[WCTA]

42 minutes ago, wee-toon-red said:

He’s totally blown his credibility with this stuff.

I’m curious; outside of Twitter has anyone ever heard a woman utter the phrase “safe space” when talking about the lavvy or a changing room?

Yes, myself when I’ve got the horn on and I’m champing at the bit tae get the leg o’er. She then runs like the clappers intae the bog shouting “Safe place! Safe place!” 

[vanderark14]

33 minutes ago, Toepoke said:

The guy's a roaster!

Given the battles he's fought over the years with the Wee Blue Book etc. he's picked a bizarre hill to die on...

 

Any respect he had is completely gone

[exile]

4 hours ago, aaid said:

As to what the Unionist Parties in Scotland will do.   The Tories will continue to be full on belligerent "Tell Her No, Again" but its hard to see where that goes.  That's a message which resonates strongly with their core support but is a real turn-off for anyone else.   That core support seems to be stuck  in the mid 20s - 22% in 2016, 28% in 2017, 25% in 2019 - and with that level, they can never be anything other than a loud and annoying opposition in Scotland.

My guess is that Labour will go further into decline in Scotland - when you think things can't get any worse for them, along comes another election and it does.   You really can't see any future for them, especially as when you look at the talent at Holyrood, is there actually anyone in that group that looks remotely competent?    One thing they could do that might help them would be to drop their opposition to another Independence referendum.   That's not the same as doing a 180 and supporting Indy but merely saying that the question needs to be put.    Trying to out-Unionist the Tories, clearly hasn't worked, and if they did that, they might stand a chance of getting back some of the Independence supporting former voters they've lost.    I can't see it happening as the party hierarchy is so fixated with the SNP they won't do it and anyway, they'll probably spend the next five years fighting the real enemy to Labour, which is anyone in the Labour party that doesn't agree with them.

I guess for the Tories, they'll need to get a proper "Scottish leader", so it will be interesting to see the range of stances the candidates take. For now it seems to be a case of complete denial that the election result means anything, other than - ironically - whatever you want; we'll say No from Westminster. Which is not the greatest advert for being an equal partner in the union.

As for Labour, well if Corbyn had won, then it's possible to imagine them going into indyref on a neutral ticket with Corbyn the honest broker. But that neutral stance was not popular for Brexit. I would imagine that Labour could well be in a civil war for months - this may or may not be a chance for new voices to emerge but it could be as likely for those in power in Scotland to hunker down, frozen in their current positions. Ian Murray could be one of the loudest voices for a while, while Leonard will presumably soldier on till 2021. 

The Lib Dems (despite Swinson) did relatively well in Scotland, they still have 4 seats and could yet hold on to those just for doing nothing different as usual. They Scottish LDs must now be over a third of all LibDem MPs?  Not sure what their big appeal will be if Brexit goes through, what then will be their policies, just opposing independence?

 

[weekevie04]

46 minutes ago, Toepoke said:

The guy's a roaster!

Given the battles he's fought over the years with the Wee Blue Book etc. he's picked a bizarre hill to die on...

 

Absolutely.

No doubt he´s been very useful to the cause, but he´s a loose cannon - always has. Far too easily strung and aggressive as well.

Cheers for yer heart work and all that, but see you later I reckon regardng him.

I´m in agreement, extraordinary he´s going to be rememember for this rather than any possible good work he did for independence. His blog has been on its knees for a year, so it does give him some publicity etc.

[exile]

1 hour ago, Hertsscot said:

I think you've made some really interesting points.  The question now is which way does Johnson go, if he's belligerent then that would in my opinion be an error.  His best chance of stymieing independence is actually to offer a decent deal to Scotland, possibly along the lines of the infamous Vow and cut the ground beneath the SNP's feet. The press headlines down south are mostly very triumphalistic and no doubt will continue to be so. Johnson won't be hiding in the fridge anymore or avoiding interviews and I think there will be a lot of positive spin in the upcoming months with media and ordinary voters probably thinking what a great job he's doing, pledging money for all sorts of things or cutting taxes. If the sky doesn't fall in with Brexit and threats of the end of civilization as we know it don't materialize it might well neuter some of the short term support for independence.

It's really hard to predict what Johnson will do, once he feels safely ensconced in power. He could go all Trump and start sacking his own advisors, he could start purging ERG or anyone who disagreed with his 'deal' (remembering he already voted against similar then changed his mind), he could go undemocratic and start eating away at Holyrood powers, he could shrug and say let them have independence but put some huge price on it, etc etc. 

It's hard to tell his real view on Scotland (other than as a possession as part of the awesome foursome). Going by his previous comment about FFA he may have in mind some sort of rigged FFA that would be a trap devised to impoverish Scotland and weaken SNP. Then again, I remember during indyref 2014 there were a fair few people who were so convinced that Scottish  independence was such a crazy idea - that even Salmond couldn't believe in - they thought the whole thing was a ruse to bargain more power and money out of Westminster. 

So a lot may depend if Johnson really thinks England subsidises Scotland or vice versa. So it might be interesting to look closely for any 'tells'  on that front.

[ParisInAKilt]

Wings has already explained why GRA is so important to him, he’s maybe taken it to the extreme and gone too far for some but it’s his blog etc I’m sure when the next referendum comes he’ll be doing what he does best. 

Its correct that the vast majority of people either don’t know about it or don’t care, certainly not enough to not vote for a party but then a lot of the parties are going ahead with this, like it or lump it really. 

The SNP have decided to listen to trans activists over women who do care about this stuff. 

Edited December 14, 2019 by ParisInAKilt

[thplinth]

Sorry am i getting this right...

All this faux outrage is because he wrote "women do not have penises" on his ballot?

I have to dispute the claim that as he drew a phallus that spunked in the last box it was probably counted as a tory vote. The flying sperm chunks are clearly too far away and not going to hit the tory box, ridiculous argument to make.

 

 

Edited December 14, 2019 by thplinth

[ThistleWhistle]

5 hours ago, aaid said:

What evidence do you have that 50% of the population have concerns?

Said potentially 50% given women are being asked to open their safe spaces. That doesn't mean they all will or all won't but they need a constructive say in how this progresses rather than just have it imposed on them.

[Bonny79]

1 minute ago, ThistleWhistle said:

Said potentially 50% given women are being asked to open their safe spaces. That doesn't mean they all will or all won't but they need a constructive say in how this progresses rather than just have it imposed on them.

Safe spaces???  Are you a snowflake? 

[Barney Rubble]

12 minutes ago, Bonny79 said:

Safe spaces???  Are you a snowflake? 

Not certain to be honest.

But you are quite clearly a prick.

[Bonny79]

13 minutes ago, Barney Rubble said:

Not certain to be honest.

But you are quite clearly a prick.

Best you don't use the safe spaces language though.   Makes you sound like a socialist.  

[Barney Rubble]

1 minute ago, Bonny79 said:

Best you don't use the safe spaces language though.   Makes you sound like a socialist.  

Aye OK - prick.

 

[ThistleWhistle]

5 minutes ago, Bonny79 said:

Best you don't use the safe spaces language though.   Makes you sound 

I am a socialist

[thplinth]

10 minutes ago, ThistleWhistle said:

I am a socialist

What does that mean to you? I believe in markets. I know it is imperfect but i also know it vastly better than an undefined term. So what is this solution you propose?

[ThistleWhistle]

1 minute ago, thplinth said:

What does that mean to you? I believe in markets. I know it is imperfect but i also know it vastly better than an undefined term. So what is this solution you propose?

If I agreed with him I thought he might leave me alone.

[Bonny79]

28 minutes ago, ThistleWhistle said:

I am a socialist

Socialism doesn't work.  Most left wing marxism is doomed to failure. 

[Eisegerwind]

10 minutes ago, Bonny79 said:

Socialism doesn't work.  Most left wing marxism is doomed to failure. 

Do tell us about the non-failing left wing marxism?

[Eisegerwind]

36 minutes ago, thplinth said:

What does that mean to you? I believe in markets. I know it is imperfect but i also know it vastly better than an undefined term. So what is this solution you propose?

Socialism has been 'defined' for tens of decades, basically, ' a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole'. Obviously not as concise as 'I believe in markets', there are bargains to be had if you're prepared to haggle right enough.

[Bonny79]

15 minutes ago, Eisegerwind said:

Do tell us about the non-failing left wing marxism?

None of those. 

[ParisInAKilt]

Aspects of socialism are really attractive and beneficial for the community. 

Wouldn’t call myself a socialist though. 

[Eisegerwind]

31 minutes ago, Bonny79 said:

Socialism doesn't work.  Most left wing marxism is doomed to failure. 

 

18 minutes ago, Eisegerwind said:

Do tell us about the non-failing left wing marxism?

 

4 minutes ago, Bonny79 said:

None of those. 

When you said 'most' did you mean 'all' ?