hampden_loon2878 Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 48 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said: I still stand by what i said a couple of weeks ago Every bigot in Scotland is voting Tory - more than at any other election or referendum The Ulsterisation of politics has succeeded Its strange you say that, one of the most vocal yes guys i knew has now gone to tory, he was one of those yes voters who disliked the english folk and gave the yes camp a bad name, he now hates immigrants and the snp, especially sturgeon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 (edited) The reason the right wing has had such traction in recent years is that the left (and I use these terms with the usual caveats phart) made anyone who said anything negative about immigration into a racist. They snuffed out that totally valid debate and as a result people stored it up and got angry and first chance they got they voted right wing as a fuck you. The way the left has gone (and I include the SNP under that alas) you can expect a LOT more of it coming your way. Edited December 9, 2019 by thplinth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted December 9, 2019 Author Share Posted December 9, 2019 The BBC don't even try and hide it. Lead item on Reporting Scotland was basically a party political broadcast for Lesley Laird. Trying to track down the "elusive" Neale Hanvey. I won't hold my breath waiting for the similar features on the four other candidates who've been suspended by their parties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThistleWhistle Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 20 minutes ago, thplinth said: The reason the right wing has had such traction in recent years is that the left (and I use these terms with the usual caveats phart) made anyone who said anything negative about immigration into a racist. They snuffed out that totally valid debate and as a result people stored it up and got angry and first chance they got they voted right wing as a fuck you. The way the left has gone (and I include the SNP under that alas) you can expect a LOT more of it coming your way. I think there has always been a base there that has been somewhat contained over recent years but totally agree that the pavlovian response of just shutting it down as racist has pushed folk over that way. It's not even that difficult to present a coherent argument for immigration in terms of aging population, EU nationals putting more in than they take it out, low unemployment etc but playing the race card off the bat doesn't do anyone any favours and when Grimsby is going tory but leafy suburbs in London could go Labour the whole thing is a clusterfuck. One thing is for sure though any veil is off given Johnson stating: EU migrants have been able to “treat the UK as if it’s part of their own country” for too long today. The irony of it all is the number of brown immigrants will likely need to increase to offset the drop in EU migrants so be interesting to see how that circle is squared. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, ThistleWhistle said: I think there has always been a base there that has been somewhat contained over recent years but totally agree that the pavlovian response of just shutting it down as racist has pushed folk over that way. It's not even that difficult to present a coherent argument for immigration in terms of aging population, EU nationals putting more in than they take it out, low unemployment etc but playing the race card off the bat doesn't do anyone any favours and when Grimsby is going tory but leafy suburbs in London could go Labour the whole thing is a clusterfuck. One thing is for sure though any veil is off given Johnson stating: EU migrants have been able to “treat the UK as if it’s part of their own country” for too long today. The irony of it all is the number of brown immigrants will likely need to increase to offset the drop in EU migrants so be interesting to see how that circle is squared. I linked to House of Lords study on the cost-benefit of immigration on here a while ago (but not that long ago). It is I believe the only such study (costs v benefits) to come out of parliament on it. If you can find it I suggest you read it. You only have to read the conclusions... I think it was about 8 pages. It is far less 'this is a good thing' than you would think given all the press and politician chat. The reason we have BREXIT is because the left did not allow any meaningful discussion on immigration and they did so by instantly smearing anyone critical as racist. So now 'they' (the smeared) are just going to ram BREXIT, the tories, etc, etc... up their arses in revenge. I honestly cant say I blame them. They gave gave them no other political avenue. The poor working class took the economic brunt of mass uncontrolled immigration. Remind me who is voting for BREXIT again? The arrogance over these people is astonishing. They are all racists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThistleWhistle Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 3 hours ago, phart said: Ended up on Twitter this is a belter of post from the top BBC Journo, check the BBC Balance at work, fucking dreadful reporting. I'll see you that and raise you this: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 25 minutes ago, thplinth said: I linked to House of Lords study on the cost-benefit of immigration on here a while ago (but not that long ago). It is I believe the only such study (costs v benefits) to come out of parliament on it. If you can find it I suggest you read it. You only have to read the conclusions... I think it was about 8 pages. It is far less 'this is a good thing' than you would think given all the press and politician chat. The reason we have BREXIT is because the left did not allow any meaningful discussion on immigration and they did so by instantly smearing anyone critical as racist. So now 'they' (the smeared) are just going to ram BREXIT, the tories, etc, etc... up their arses in revenge. I honestly cant say I blame them. They gave gave them no other political avenue. The poor working class took the economic brunt of mass uncontrolled immigration. Remind me who is voting for BREXIT again? The arrogance over these people is astonishing. They are all racists. The irony being the conservatives had all the powers they need to control non EU immigration but haven’t, they use strong language but in reality they don’t care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 I'm not so sure the left portrayed everyone as racist .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 It’s not racist to control immigration. But watch how the media and other EU politicians attack the Hungarian government for their policies on immigration, that you might not like but to what extent are the government following the wishes of the population? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 3 hours ago, thplinth said: The reason the right wing has had such traction in recent years is that the left (and I use these terms with the usual caveats phart) made anyone who said anything negative about immigration into a racist. They snuffed out that totally valid debate and as a result people stored it up and got angry and first chance they got they voted right wing as a fuck you. The way the left has gone (and I include the SNP under that alas) you can expect a LOT more of it coming your way. Kernie got ganged up for voicing stuff on immigration here. So it was a lot of the left in that respect. I'm not even left wing i don't believe in government really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 1 hour ago, ThistleWhistle said: I'll see you that and raise you this: in under 12 hours as well. She's a symptom rather than the disease though, i'll let chomsky explain, as he does it better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hampden_loon2878 Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 definitely a void in scottish politics that needs filled https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/12/09/meet-the-scottish-nationalists-who-voted-leave/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 53 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said: definitely a void in scottish politics that needs filled https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/12/09/meet-the-scottish-nationalists-who-voted-leave/ With Jim Fairlie it's all about Jim Fairlie Him and Sillars have been the Daily Mail & Daily Express go to guys for the last 3 years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 1 hour ago, hampden_loon2878 said: definitely a void in scottish politics that needs filled https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/12/09/meet-the-scottish-nationalists-who-voted-leave/ Enjoyed reading that. 12 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said: With Jim Fairlie it's all about Jim Fairlie He was before my time but from that article I didn’t get that impression at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eisegerwind Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 9 hours ago, phart said: Kernie got ganged up for voicing stuff on immigration here. So it was a lot of the left in that respect. I'm not even left wing i don't believe in government really. Would seem there are quite a few anarchists on this thread. Do you all live in a special TAMB commune or different ones? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 1 hour ago, Eisegerwind said: Would seem there are quite a few anarchists on this thread. Do you all live in a special TAMB commune or different ones? You’re not very funny. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eisegerwind Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 37 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said: You’re not very funny. Sorry. Yeah, well not as funny as pretend internet anarchists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 11 minutes ago, Eisegerwind said: Yeah, well not as funny as pretend internet anarchists. You’re the only one who used the term anarchist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eisegerwind Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 20 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said: You’re the only one who used the term anarchist. Yep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErsatzThistle Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 15 hours ago, hampden_loon2878 said: Its strange you say that, one of the most vocal yes guys i knew has now gone to tory, he was one of those yes voters who disliked the english folk and gave the yes camp a bad name, he now hates immigrants and the snp, especially sturgeon Good. Fuck him. I'd rather lose than have scum like that on our side. 15 hours ago, thplinth said: The reason the right wing has had such traction in recent years is that the left (and I use these terms with the usual caveats phart) made anyone who said anything negative about immigration into a racist. They snuffed out that totally valid debate and as a result people stored it up and got angry and first chance they got they voted right wing as a fuck you. The way the left has gone (and I include the SNP under that alas) you can expect a LOT more of it coming your way. And those of us (who are also the descendants of immigrants) who point out the huge benefits we see every day thanks to immigrants - are in turn pilloried as rabid commies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 12 hours ago, hampden_loon2878 said: definitely a void in scottish politics that needs filled https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/12/09/meet-the-scottish-nationalists-who-voted-leave/ Quote Like many, Spence has been concerned by the caricatures of Brexit voters. ‘I struggle with the imbecility of the view that 17.4million voters can be characterised as racist, thick and stupid. There is a lack of civility in our political discourse and an absence of democratic decency.’ (As just evidenced by the usual toxic shite above.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 13 minutes ago, ErsatzThistle said: And those of us (who are also the descendants of immigrants) who point out the huge benefits we see every day thanks to immigrants - are in turn pilloried as rabid commies. How much immigration should any country take though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErsatzThistle Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 Just now, thplinth said: (As just evidenced by the usual toxic shite above.) Tell me big boy, what is so toxic about saying - "And those of us (who are also the descendants of immigrants) who point out the huge benefits we see every day thanks to immigrants - are in turn pilloried as rabid commies." This year immigrants have - Fixed my buggered heating. Sold me my train tickets. Took great care of my Gran after she had a stroke. Fixed my buggered roof. Made and served me meals. Saved my cat from going blind. Cut my hair. Help me take care of a skin condition. Drove me back and forth across the World's Greatest City. They were in those jobs because the thick cunts who sit at home watching daytime TV and moaning incessantly about immigration either didn't want to do these jobs or weren't remotely qualified. Immigration is fine by me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 Just now, ErsatzThistle said: Tell me big boy, what is so toxic about saying - "And those of us (who are also the descendants of immigrants) who point out the huge benefits we see every day thanks to immigrants - are in turn pilloried as rabid commies." This year immigrants have - Fixed my buggered heating. Sold me my train tickets. Took great care of my Gran after she had a stroke. Fixed my buggered roof. Made and served me meals. Saved my cat from going blind. Cut my hair. Help me take care of a skin condition. Drove me back and forth across the World's Greatest City. They were in those jobs because the thick cunts who sit at home watching daytime TV and moaning incessantly about immigration either didn't want to do these jobs or weren't remotely qualified. Immigration is fine by me. Herpes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 20 minutes ago, Eisegerwind said: Yep. Great contribution. Look forward to your next snide remarks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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