Clyde1998 Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 I've been busy lately, so I haven't looked at the forum for a couple of weeks. I've had a quick look at don't think this has been mentioned, but if it has I'm sorry. UEFA have reformatted the Nations League. There are pros and cons about this, both in general and for Scotland. What's the new format? The basic structure of four divisions, with twelve teams in the top two and fifteen/sixteen in the bottom two is being replaced with sixteen in the top three divisions and seven in the bottom. This change ultimately means that we would've been promoted to League B if we had finished second in our group last time. Each league will contain: League A: All the countries that were in that division last time (including those who would've been relegated), plus the nations placed 1st in League B. League B: The nations placed 2nd or 3rd in League B and the nations placed 1st or 2nd in League C. League C: The nations placed 3rd or 4th in League C and the nations placed 1st or 2nd in League D, plus the best nation placed 3rd in League D. League D: All remaining nations. There are four groups of four in Leagues A, B and C, with League D having a group of four and a group of three. The draw for each group is seeded based on their position in the Nations League last time, with the exception of the teams that would've been relegated being placed below the teams that would've been promoted. For our league this means the pots are: Russia, Austria, Wales, Czech Republic Scotland, Norway, Serbia, Finland Slovakia, Turkey, Ireland, Northern Ireland Bulgaria, Israel, Hungary, Romania Why the change? The Nations League is being incorporated into World Cup qualifying. World Cup qualifying takes the same base format as the Euro qualifiers - five groups of five and five groups of six. The difference is that only the winners of each group qualify for the World Cup - due to less slots for European teams at the World Cup - and the runners-up enter the play-offs along with two teams from the Nations League. UEFA's document on the new format doesn't specify which two teams enter the play-offs; it's likely, IMO, to be the two highest ranked teams not to have qualified or to be in the play-offs already. There is no additional benefit from winning your group, as there was last time. The play-offs will consist of six semi-finals and three finals, with each final winner also qualifying for the World Cup. Additionally, this format change increases the number of matches for UEFA to market and prevents Germany being in League B. It also means that the lowest ranked teams will play more matches against similar standard teams (ie. San Marino will play Gibraltar/Faroe Islands, Latvia/Liechtenstein and Andorra/Malta instead of playing one of Cyprus, Estonia, Slovania or Lithuania as would've been the case previously). What does this mean for Scotland? We almost certainly won't be playing friendlies anymore, except in the months before a major tournament. This could be seen as a pro, but means that we'll have very little opportunity to play against countries from outside Europe which could be a con - especially if we do qualify for a World Cup. This change does increase the chance that we'll be in League B more regularly, as there are eight more nations in the top two leagues. What does this mean for World Cup qualifying seeding? FIFA have previously been reluctant to allow confederations to use their own seeding system ahead of the FIFA World Rankings for World Cup qualifying seedings. The document doesn't discuss seedings for the World Cup qualifiers, so I'm guessing the World Rankings will be used instead of your overall position in the Nations League. When are the matches? 3-5 September 2020 6-8 September 2020 8-10 October 2020 11-13 October 2020 12-14 November 2020 15-17 November 2020 World Cup qualifiers will take place in March, June, September, October and November 2021 (two matches each month), with the play-offs in March 2022. The 2022 Nations League will take place in June (four matches) and September (two) 2022, with the World Cup in November and December. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 Aye. it's been mentioned briefly, somewhere. Seven teams in League D seems a bit weird though. I wonder how they are going to work that? One group of 3 and one of 4. Group winners get promoted? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyDD Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 Without a proper prize at the end of it (playoff for winning group) I wonder how seriously it will be taken this next go around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romanticscot Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 So what is clear, finish second in World Cup qualify group and you are one of 10 teams in a play off, along with two teams from the Nations League - the criteria how those are selected is not clear. The play off's will consist of a semi final and a final to produce another 3 teams, to add to the 10 group winners who will go to Qatar. I wonder if they will keep this larger league format for the EURO 2024 tournament or alternate back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haggis_trap Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 59 minutes ago, romanticscot said: So what is clear, finish second in World Cup qualify group and you are one of 10 teams in a play off, along with two teams from the Nations League - the criteria how those are selected is not clear. The play off's will consist of a semi final and a final to produce another 3 teams, to add to the 10 group winners who will go to Qatar. I wonder if they will keep this larger league format for the EURO 2024 tournament or alternate back. Sounds to me like bad news for Scotland qualifying for a World Cup? We are never going to win a group these days... If we get lucky draw and finish 2nd in WC group then we still need to go into a play-off (which will be against a bunch of high ranked teams who have already done well in Nations league or WC qualifying) Sounds to me like the nations league path to World Cup is designed to ensure bigger teams like England, Italy, Holland, France <etc> have best possible chance to qualify for a world cup ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romanticscot Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 Qualification for a World Cup would be a huge accomplishment for a team such as ours. I think our best hopes of ever being at one again is getting ourselves into pot 2 position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clyde1998 Posted October 26, 2019 Author Share Posted October 26, 2019 18 hours ago, romanticscot said: So what is clear, finish second in World Cup qualify group and you are one of 10 teams in a play off, along with two teams from the Nations League - the criteria how those are selected is not clear. The play off's will consist of a semi final and a final to produce another 3 teams, to add to the 10 group winners who will go to Qatar. I wonder if they will keep this larger league format for the EURO 2024 tournament or alternate back. I reckon they could keep it the same for Euro 2024, as Germany are hosting it and therefore will qualify automatically - leaving 23 spots. The top two in each qualifying group and three play-off winners would be likely be the teams to qualify - perhaps with the third placed teams in each qualifying group going into these play-offs along with two from the Nations League. It does degrade qualifying a bit knowing that we've already got a play-off spot before starting qualifying, as well as knowing that one of Georgia, Belarus, Kosovo and Macedonia will qualify regardless of their qualifying performance; I wonder if that's a factor in the change to the play-off format. In North America they've replaced their previous qualifying format for their continental competition (the Gold Cup) with their Nations League competition. The top two in each League A group (out of three) qualify, along with the top team in each League B group. The second placed teams in League B and the winners of League C (there are only three leagues) enter a play-off, with the winners of those matches playing the third placed teams from League A for a place in the Gold Cup. I wouldn't mind that for Euro qualifying; it ensures that teams take the Nations League seriously, without having the issue of teams having a 'second shot' a qualifying no matter how they do in their qualifying group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASTA Mick Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 I know it hasn't been decided yet about Euro 2024 but it would seem to be that it would be best for us to be relegated next time to get into League C. That would give us the best chance of winning a group ahead of Euro 2024 and having a play-off to fall back on. Assuming League C still has a play-off place for the finals, the only draw-back would be the impact on our rankings and seeding place ahead of future draws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan Chris Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 19 hours ago, Haggis_trap said: Sounds to me like bad news for Scotland qualifying for a World Cup? We are never going to win a group these days... If we get lucky draw and finish 2nd in WC group then we still need to go into a play-off (which will be against a bunch of high ranked teams who have already done well in Nations league or WC qualifying) Sounds to me like the nations league path to World Cup is designed to ensure bigger teams like England, Italy, Holland, France <etc> have best possible chance to qualify for a world cup ? It is very difficult to qualify for a WC these days regardless of how qualifying is structured. You can see how difficult Scotland is making it to get to a euros where 24 teams can qualify, with World cup places are reduced by 50%. You factor in mainstays like England, Germany, France, Spain, Belgium (for this generation) etc, Scotland is going to be in one of those world cup qualifying groups. Let's remember last time out Holland and Italy couldn't qualify. Might be more hope when the dreaded 48 team World cup starts but think europe isn't getting that many extra places compared to likes of Africa and Asia so won't be that much easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 2 hours ago, Tartan Chris said: It is very difficult to qualify for a WC these days regardless of how qualifying is structured. You can see how difficult Scotland is making it to get to a euros where 24 teams can qualify, with World cup places are reduced by 50%. You factor in mainstays like England, Germany, France, Spain, Belgium (for this generation) etc, Scotland is going to be in one of those world cup qualifying groups. Let's remember last time out Holland and Italy couldn't qualify. Might be more hope when the dreaded 48 team World cup starts but think europe isn't getting that many extra places compared to likes of Africa and Asia so won't be that much easier. Aye, only three extra places for Europe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Pete Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 22 hours ago, Haggis_trap said: Sounds to me like bad news for Scotland qualifying for a World Cup? Nothing has changed in terms of the qualifying groups so I’m not sure how this change could be bad for our qualification hopes. Second place still gets you a playoff place. Finishing second hasn’t provided automatic qualification for the World Cup for decades (although Scotland did qualify for France 98 by finishing second as we were the best runner up). I’m assuming the playoffs will be over one leg again. Not sure if this helps us or not. Depends whether we are at home I suppose if we ever make the World Cup playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Pete Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 4 hours ago, PASTA Mick said: I know it hasn't been decided yet about Euro 2024 but it would seem to be that it would be best for us to be relegated next time to get into League C. That would give us the best chance of winning a group ahead of Euro 2024 and having a play-off to fall back on. Assuming League C still has a play-off place for the finals, the only draw-back would be the impact on our rankings and seeding place ahead of future draws. If they had kept the same format it would’ve been better for us to stay in league B as the vast majority of League B teams that don’t qualify through their group will get a playoff this time. They should’ve made it so relegated teams don’t get a playoff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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