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The manager


Malcolm

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The point I’m making is that it’s not the manager that’s been the problem.  If i went back through posts people talked about him as the messiah... people saying we have better players than wales and n Ireland... and that Clarke would make us better than them.... pish.

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I know things are dismal but he has only lost to Belgium and Russia so far, two nations that bluntly are miles better than Scotland.

Cyprus winning away to Kazhakstan today (and being a goal down) highlights what a disgrace that result was and one of the worst in Scotland's history.

Hopefully Clarke won't have a moment like that but shows things could get much worse.

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9 hours ago, Tartan Chris said:

I know things are dismal but he has only lost to Belgium and Russia so far, two nations that bluntly are miles better than Scotland.

Cyprus winning away to Kazhakstan today (and being a goal down) highlights what a disgrace that result was and one of the worst in Scotland's history.

Hopefully Clarke won't have a moment like that but shows things could get much worse.

Do you not think it might show that Cyprus might be a wee bit better than some folk think? Relative to us anyway.

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The results have been bad but the performances have been even worse.

No confidence, structure, stability and totally weak in defence.  Strachan improved things immediately when he came in but Clarke has made things worse.

He was brilliant for Kilmarnock but currently dreadful for Scotland.  

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1 hour ago, ErsatzThistle said:

Fuck it, let's sack Clarke and then six months later sack his replacement and then another six months later sack the replacements replacement ....

Seriously, this is how some idiots would run our national team if it were up-to them :rolleyes:

None of them are saying who he should be replaced by of course. Don't recall too many dissenting voices at his appointment either, apart from Killie fans!

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3 minutes ago, daviebee said:

None of them are saying who he should be replaced by of course. Don't recall too many dissenting voices at his appointment either, apart from Killie fans!

Some idiot will no doubt come along and suggest "Walter".

Anyone suggesting "Walter" as a candidate deserves to have their head flushed down a toilet repeatedly until all breathing stops.

In fact, fuck it, let's just sack everybody from everything ! It's the only way some folk will be pleased.

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The players don't give a fuck, that's our biggest issue.

Not defending Clarke re results but as soon as that goal went in the players chucked it.

Look at NI, Wales and Ireland - they have players who'd run through a brick wall for them. We have players who call off at the slightest sniff of an injury and guys like Tierney who are fit and don't want called up.

Pathetic.

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2 hours ago, Orraloon said:

Do you not think it might show that Cyprus might be a wee bit better than some folk think? Relative to us anyway.

Well Steve Clarke beat them (just)......They generally don't travel well so you should always be beating them at home but think I said when draw was called they always give teams games in Nicosia so can see that being a draw or another humbling loss.

Anyway 7 points from last 3 should just about get 3rd.

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1 hour ago, Alan said:

Strachan improved things immediately when he came in but Clarke has made things worse.

 

He didn't actually./  Not remember that 2-1 defeat to Wales at Hampden?  Nothing I've seen before or since will ever be as abject as that game.  And Strachan really got them going.

Still raging he got the boot.

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After the first two games under Clarke, I saw grounds for optimism. 

We would not have come back to win the Cyprus match under Mcleish after conceding; we'd have been more likely to lose a second. 

The game in Brussels was, yes, a 3-0 defeat, but we did seem organised for the most part, we did seem to be fighting for each other, to be competitive in relative terms, against a very very talented opponent. The first goal came from a momentary lapse form McTominay who had been good until that point, followed by a good ball and our centre half losing a one vs one aerial  battle with Lukaku. I don't think any of us could reasonably complain about that; Lukaku will beat all sorts of defenders in an aerial duel especially on the end of a Hazard delivery. That's no disgrace.

Had we not lost that we go in 0-0 at halftime and probably deservedly so. We lose a second but really should score a goal ourselves with 5 mins or so left to run, before a third goal, an excellent hit, by De Bruyne in added time. 

All in, I remember being there at the time and the Tartan Army being encouraged, chanting 'Scotland, Scotland, Scotland' at fulltime and applauding the effort and togetherness of the players as they clapped us. We expected to lose to Belgium, but that was a defeat with a bit of dignity in it. We didn't disgrace ourselves and the difference between that 3-0 away defeat and the one which had taken place in Astana was marked. 

It is especially disappointing, then, to see the failure to build on that since then. Granted, we probably should have expected 0 points off russia and Belgium; if you were a betting man you'd have gone for the russians and the belgians in each match, but remember when we would give the strong teams a game? Remember even when Belgium came to Hampden under Strachan and won 2-0? We didn't hurt them much but got exposed far less and kept a bit of dignity about us, even coming close to hurting them when Anya came on and attacked at pace down the side. So it's not the points tally so much as the manner of these four defeats that galls me. So many goals conceded cheaply. So little threat offered going the other way. 

I do think we'd have fared better had Clarke been able to use the same centre half pairing he'd used in the first double header, when we didn't look anywhere near as vulnerable. I do think that would have helped us try and build on the decent-ish showing in Brussels, relative to what we did get. I do think if we had even a Fletcher up top we'd have been able to hold our lead, or at least the ball, a bit longer at home to Russia. These are things that Clarke cannot do much about. If his first choice players are injured and other players that would start choose not to continue, that's unlucky in the first instance and on the player themselves in the second instance. 

But we have looked so fragile in these last four games it is mental. Belgium never got out of third gear at Hampden and smashed us to bits. Russia looked like they could score at will second half last night and should have got 3 or 4 instead of just the 2 they did score last month. That is on the players and the manager. It should never be so easy. 

It wasn't long ago that we went 2017 unbeaten. Yes Strachan failed to beat Lithuania at Hampden, failed to beat Georgia away, got a kicking in Slovakia, failed to beat Ireland in Dublin when they were highly beatable; but pound for pound, game for game, performance for performance, we look much much worse now than we did then. We looked more dangerous and we didn't look quite so vulnerable. We definitely seemed to have superior mental strength and aggression. We also had more leaders on the park, even if they were at times limited footballers; Brown, Berra, Martin, Fletcher, Morrison; These guys were captains (at the time or previously in their careers) at club level and experienced leaders. Clarke doesn't have that and a lot of those guys are either not available now or way past it. 

Make no mistake, we failed in his two (and a half) campaigns and we were no world beaters, but I don't think there's any doubting now that we have gone backwards since the Stachan era ended.Had Clarke got the job at the outset, instead of Eck, we might be in a different situation. He'd have had the friendlies (shudder), the nations league and the first two games of this campaign extra to work on the team. 

Unless we lose the games to come, we should stick with him through to the playoffs. He has had an incredibly hard start, of that there can be no doubt. That doesnt change the fact that you'd like us to have done better and we should have done better in this hard start, but still. More likely than not we will finish third in the group and that was always the likely outcome. That is the minimum. We will not play a team like Russia or Belgium in the ployoffs. That does not mean we will win, and you worry for any side that can't keep the heid when they lose a goal (or score a goal, either, in the case or Russia at home) but it is a fact regardless. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by AndyDD
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4 hours ago, Orraloon said:

Do you not think it might show that Cyprus might be a wee bit better than some folk think? Relative to us anyway.

No. I think it just highlights how poor we were in that game. I am surprised though at how many think we'll swagger out of Cyprus next month with 3 points, 

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4 hours ago, adamntg said:

He didn't actually./  Not remember that 2-1 defeat to Wales at Hampden?  Nothing I've seen before or since will ever be as abject as that game.  And Strachan really got them going.

Still raging he got the boot.

Absolutely correct. That is the worst performance I have ever seen from any Scotland team. And we have had loads of contenders recently, but that one is still the worst.

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Imaginary TV Programme

Presenter: Well, things are tough for the men's national team right now but there is still the hope of qualification through the play-offs. I have with me today the three top figures in the SFA. Gentlemen, can I ask you, what is your vision for the Scotland national side, and how can we improve things?

Ian Maxwell: [SILENCE]

Rod Petrie: [SILENCE]

Rod Petrie's Moustache: [SILENCE]

Presenter: Complete unanimity from the top men there. Back to the studio.

 

No point in sacking Clarke. But no point in sacking Maxwell/Petrie because they'd just replace them with two of the same, with the same game plan; 'Say nothing, give the Old Firm anything they want and bump up the prices for the next round of internationals.'

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15 hours ago, Arbroath1320 said:

Vogts failed to qualify for a major tournament, Smith failed, McLeish failed, Burley failed, Levein failed and Strachan failed. It's time to move on from blaming the manager and start addressing the fact that the players coming through are not good enough.

I totally agree that simply sacking the manager every couple of years isn't the answer. I also agree that some of our players - particular in defence and up front - aren't international standard.

That said, half the team who started last night play regularly in the EPL and one of them is good enough to hold down a regular place with the reigning Champions League champions, yet we played like minnows, like the second bottom team we currently are.

We go a goal down and we fold - that's the hallmark of a team severely lacking in confidence. Clarke needs to start speaking to his players and try and rebuild their confidence.

I don't think we are good enough to qualify for the Euros but we're better than what we showed last night.

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