aaid Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 3 minutes ago, The_Dark_Knight said: We can go back to it if you want, you're the one that left the conversation. (Kinda busy now so I'm not completely engaged) That's the thing, though, a player wouldn't be denied selection on the basis of his nationality. There's a limited amount of spots that oversees players to claim, if they don't claim them then it's either down to the manager or because said player hasn't done well I training before the match or he just isn't good enough. It would be a different case if the first XI was the exact same for every single match of the season, but that's unlikely. "there are a limited number of spots for overseas players" . You can stop right there, that's the bit that's discriminatory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCTA Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 32 minutes ago, The_Dark_Knight said: Mate, are you the person who I did this with last time? If so, we went through all this last time. You didn't get the last word then and you won't now. Show the legislation where it states that football players are obliged to participate in every match/minute for the club who bought them. Sporting law is different from regular law and you know it. FFS 😂🙈 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dark_Knight Posted October 8, 2019 Author Share Posted October 8, 2019 13 minutes ago, aaid said: "there are a limited number of spots for overseas players" . You can stop right there, that's the bit that's discriminatory. Starting spots. Not spots in the squad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dark_Knight Posted October 8, 2019 Author Share Posted October 8, 2019 1 hour ago, Squirrelhumper said: He'd argue black was white. Somebody should do him a favour and admit him to Ailsa. And I kinda find it unfair. Someone argues against MY post and I'M the one who would argue black was white. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonny78 Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 Everyone needs their hole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 16 minutes ago, The_Dark_Knight said: Starting spots. Not spots in the squad. Irrelevant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dark_Knight Posted October 8, 2019 Author Share Posted October 8, 2019 28 minutes ago, aaid said: Irrelevant No it's not. If there was zero spots in a team for foreigners then it would be constituted as being discriminatory and the club would be vulnerable from a legal standpoint, but as long as there's a chance for overseas players to break into the first XI then it would be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 5 minutes ago, The_Dark_Knight said: No it's not. If there was zero spots in a team for foreigners then it would be constituted as being discriminatory and the club would be vulnerable from a legal standpoint, but as long as there's a chance for overseas players to break into the first XI then it would be fine. The system you're proposing is exactly the same as the one that was in force before the Bosman ruling and which was then found to be illegal as part of that case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Pete Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 You realise this is a message board and not an essay board? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu101 Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 2 hours ago, The_Dark_Knight said: Sporting law is different from regular law and you know it. Please tell me how this is so? I've got a couple of hundred cases that can be overturned, if you are correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dark_Knight Posted October 8, 2019 Author Share Posted October 8, 2019 1 hour ago, aaid said: The system you're proposing is exactly the same as the one that was in force before the Bosman ruling and which was then found to be illegal as part of that case. The Bosman ruling was more to do with what happens when a contract ends and not what happens during. 11 minutes ago, Stu101 said: Please tell me how this is so? I've got a couple of hundred cases that can be overturned, if you are correct. Sport isn't a normal job. A restaurant isn't going to employ several chefs and only use a couple whilst sending the others on fully paid gardening leave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0Neils40yarder Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 I find it incredible that this moon unit, actually thinks its OK not to play someone because they happen to be French, Danish, Chinese or African... Nae discrimination there pal, quite correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 2 minutes ago, The_Dark_Knight said: The Bosman ruling was more to do with what happens when a contract ends and not what happens during. Sport isn't a normal job. A restaurant isn't going to employ several chefs and only use a couple whilst sending the others on fully paid gardening leave. There were two aspects to Bosman, one was freedom of contract, the other was freedom of movement. The first part got the most attention for pretty obvious reasons but the second part probably has had a bigger impact on professional football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dark_Knight Posted October 8, 2019 Author Share Posted October 8, 2019 2 minutes ago, 0Neils40yarder said: I find it incredible that this moon unit, actually thinks its OK not to play someone because they happen to be French, Danish, Chinese or African... Nae discrimination there pal, quite correct. I can't speak for him, but I'll take this one. I don't see how it's discrimination if said players have a chance of playing every match for their club.. In the 90s I don't remember anyone suing Uefa for their three foreigner rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 4 minutes ago, 0Neils40yarder said: I find it incredible that this moon unit, actually thinks its OK not to play someone because they happen to be French, Danish, Chinese or African... Nae discrimination there pal, quite correct. Imagine someone was suggesting that there should be a limit on the number of black players that could play in a game and how that would fly. It'd be okay though because you'd be paying them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dark_Knight Posted October 8, 2019 Author Share Posted October 8, 2019 1 minute ago, aaid said: There were two aspects to Bosman, one was freedom of contract, the other was freedom of movement. The first part got the most attention for pretty obvious reasons but the second part probably has had a bigger impact on professional football. Freedom of movement wouldn't be at all blocked under my proposal. Players can move as freely as they like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dark_Knight Posted October 8, 2019 Author Share Posted October 8, 2019 Just now, aaid said: Imagine someone was suggesting that there should be a limit on the number of black players that could play in a game and how that would fly. It'd be okay though because you'd be paying them. It wouldn't be illegal as long as they were being paid. It's hardly slavery sitting out a match whilst thousands of pounds are flooding into your account. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 1 minute ago, The_Dark_Knight said: I can't speak for him, but I'll take this one. I don't see how it's discrimination if said players have a chance of playing every match for their club.. In the 90s I don't remember anyone suing Uefa for their three foreigner rule. Just because no-one challenged this in the early 90s again is irrelevant.. Courts have the power to "create law" on the basis of their rulings but only do so when someone pursues a case. Because no-one took them to court over this doesn't mean that it was okay, just that it had never been tested in court. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 4 minutes ago, The_Dark_Knight said: It wouldn't be illegal as long as they were being paid. It's hardly slavery sitting out a match whilst thousands of pounds are flooding into your account. Bringing slavery into a comment about black players - classy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0Neils40yarder Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 25 minutes ago, The_Dark_Knight said: I can't speak for him, but I'll take this one. I don't see how it's discrimination if said players have a chance of playing every match for their club.. In the 90s I don't remember anyone suing Uefa for their three foreigner rule. I was suggesting that you're the moon unit... ... You can't decide that you aren't going to allow someone's career to progress, or put a barrier in place of it progressing because they happen to be of a different race. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0Neils40yarder Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 19 minutes ago, aaid said: Bringing slavery into a comment about black players - classy I'm annoyed at myself responding to this pish... He's a fucking idiot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu101 Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 1 hour ago, The_Dark_Knight said: Sport isn't a normal job. A restaurant isn't going to employ several chefs and only use a couple whilst sending the others on fully paid gardening leave. But the law applies in exactly the same way to each, yes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrisandmoo Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 1 hour ago, aaid said: Imagine someone was suggesting that there should be a limit on the number of black players that could play in a game and how that would fly. It'd be okay though because you'd be paying them. I think that is different. There are obviously homegrown quota systems in place (England?) which are discriminatory in nature. I suppose they are legal as the discrimination is indirect enough to satisfy the technicalities of the law? None the less, the discrimination is just as real. And i have no issues with that. If i had to make a call between what is best for Scottish football and what is best for the career prospects and individual rights of a foreign footballer...then i care more about Scottish football. Thankfully i don't need to make that call as Scottish players have an abundance of opportunity to progress in Scottish football. And foreign coaches and players i believe are likely to have a positive impact on Scottish football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErsatzThistle Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 3 minutes ago, Morrisandmoo said: Thankfully i don't need to make that call as Scottish players have an abundance of opportunity to progress in Scottish football. And foreign coaches and players i believe are likely to have a positive impact on Scottish football. Agree strongly with this. Sadly, the Sportsound "team" and the Daily Record or Scottish Sun writers would go ballistic at the mere thought of a group of Johnny Foreigner's coming over here and interfering with our "great Scottish traditions". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 8 minutes ago, Morrisandmoo said: I think that is different. There are obviously homegrown quota systems in place (England?) which are discriminatory in nature. I suppose they are legal as the discrimination is indirect enough to satisfy the technicalities of the law? None the less, the discrimination is just as real. And i have no issues with that. If i had to make a call between what is best for Scottish football and what is best for the career prospects and individual rights of a foreign footballer...then i care more about Scottish football. Thankfully i don't need to make that call as Scottish players have an abundance of opportunity to progress in Scottish football. And foreign coaches and players i believe are likely to have a positive impact on Scottish football. It's not different as both race and nationality are protected characteristics under the law. The two scenarios are exactly the same. The question isn't what's best for Scottish Football, it's whether the SFA should be held accountable for not implementing a scheme while would be illegal. Even if it were to be beneficial, it's not something the SFA could do. Football doesn't exist in some little vacuum where the law doesn't apply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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