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Next Two Games

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What are you expecting from these two games?

It's quite a strange international break, and I'll be happy when the Russia game is just over and done with.

From then we can work on getting some form/momentum and hopefully players clicking for the playoffs and go on some form of a run (mental considering the last two performances) to finish this group and clinch 3rd.

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Overall, for Clarke to get some solid work time with players he fully intends to include next time and, more importantly, come March.

Sadly, that has been hampered, again, by injuries. I would genuinely like him to call Mckenna back up, not because I think he is brilliant, but because I think Clarke will play him in the March games if available and in an ideal world the manager would be able to work with his preferred centre half pairing in the next four games. 

Thursday?  A performance more akin to Brussels, which I think would get us a draw against Russia if we could reproduce it, would be heartening.

Sunday? Goals. Go for it like Strachan did (hopefully without losing a goal). Give any kids in attendance a reason to want to go back. Give San Marino a chasing, score goals, cap an uncapped player or two (A goalie, Shankland) and entertain those who do turn out to watch it. 

 

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Clarke needs these four games to finalise what system he wants to use in March and hopefully the players in that system. in particular, what role for Tierney if he is playing for Arsenal by that time, who is the defensive mids, who can play the false nine if Shankland or someone else doesn't work out.

At this point he doesn't know his best team and come March that is an absolute must. Russia away is tough and there is no better international shoe in than the team officially ranked bottom. But everyone should be up and ready in the November matches to guarantee their place in the squad in March.

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33 minutes ago, The_Dark_Knight said:

Russia will beat us 0-5 and then we'll beat San Marino 1-0.

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1 minute ago, The_Dark_Knight said:

We beat Cyprus with a goal in the last minute.

You're new here. I say what I think. Period.

Indeed we did. The relevancy of this is lost on me, considering Cyprus have put 9 past San Marino. Must be because i'm new here.

 

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Just now, AndyDD said:

Indeed we did. The relevancy of this is lost on me, considering Cyprus have put 9 past San Marino. Must be because i'm new here.

 

Yeah, you must be new if you think I'm fishing.

Before the previous three defeats, we struggled to beat San Marino 0-2 and Cyprus 2-1. Going by that, my prediction won't be far off.

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I don't think you need to necessarily be dishonest about what you think will happen to be fishing, actually. 

Your example of a narrow win over Cyprus isn't really well thought through at all, given the results between the Cypriots and San Marino. Had those been narrow Cyprus wins, then yes, that would have at least made some degree of sense as an example. But Cyprus did not beat them narrowly, so as irrelevant as 'well we did this against A and A did that against B so we will do this against B' is (and, again, you used it as some sort of evidence, nobody else), the Cyprus comparison does not in any way lend credence to your score prediction. 

It undermines it. 

If we were to accept the premise that it was some sort of guide, then we would look at their 4 nil and 5 nil wins and say, well, okay, 5 or 6 then. Since we beat them by a goal. 

Now I don't actually think the Cyprus game has much of a bearing on the San Marino match, as it happens. But your assertion that a narrow win over Cyprus somehow suggests a narrow win over San Marino is pretty bizarre. The kind of assertion that seems so illogical as to make one think there is some fishing going on... 

 

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34 minutes ago, AndyDD said:

I don't think you need to necessarily be dishonest about what you think will happen to be fishing, actually. 

Your example of a narrow win over Cyprus isn't really well thought through at all, given the results between the Cypriots and San Marino. Had those been narrow Cyprus wins, then yes, that would have at least made some degree of sense as an example. But Cyprus did not beat them narrowly, so as irrelevant as 'well we did this against A and A did that against B so we will do this against B' is (and, again, you used it as some sort of evidence, nobody else), the Cyprus comparison does not in any way lend credence to your score prediction. 

It undermines it. 

If we were to accept the premise that it was some sort of guide, then we would look at their 4 nil and 5 nil wins and say, well, okay, 5 or 6 then. Since we beat them by a goal. 

Now I don't actually think the Cyprus game has much of a bearing on the San Marino match, as it happens. But your assertion that a narrow win over Cyprus somehow suggests a narrow win over San Marino is pretty bizarre. The kind of assertion that seems so illogical as to make one think there is some fishing going on... 

 

It does, actually. The definition of someone "fishing" or "trolling" online is a person who does or says something in order to garner a negative reaction from person or persons. The main intention is to incite a negative response, therefore, the person "fishing" or "trolling" usually says something disingenuous and something that would incur negativity. The operative word is "disingenuous". If you "intend" to receive a negative reaction your chances are increased if you say something that's wildly untrue and fabricated as apposed to something rooted in fact and truth. 

For instance, right now I said that we'll beat San Marino by a goal. That's me being honest. Therefore, it's 100% of you that you think that I'm fishing. People have a tendency to judge others by their own morals, so by accusing me of "fishing" you're pretty telling me that you say and/or do things of a disingenuous  nature in order to incur negative reactions.

Is beating San Marino by a single goal so far-fetched? We've beaten them by two clear goals on four occasions, so I don't think my prediction is as crazy as you make it.

My prediction is based, mostly, on the fact that we don't score goals. It's as simple as that. As yes, if going on the past then it must be used as a barometer of how we'll fair. If you want to see into the future you must first look into the past. And seeing how we struggled against Cyprus at home, Kazakhstan away and San Marino away, I think I have recent evidence of us struggling to break teams down.  

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Maybe it's my age but I am so underwhelmed by these 2 games and the international team these days.  

Our defence is a shambles with so many injuries.  Midfield is ok.  Up front non existant.

Clarke needs more time to work with the players but he can't establish his system as there are so many missing players.  A vicious circle.  To compare the start by Clarke versus the start by Strachan is worrying.

In conclusion.  It's all baws.

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15 hours ago, The_Dark_Knight said:

It does, actually. The definition of someone "fishing" or "trolling" online is a person who does or says something in order to garner a negative reaction from person or persons. The main intention is to incite a negative response, therefore, the person "fishing" or "trolling" usually says something disingenuous and something that would incur negativity. The operative word is "disingenuous". If you "intend" to receive a negative reaction your chances are increased if you say something that's wildly untrue and fabricated as apposed to something rooted in fact and truth. 

For instance, right now I said that we'll beat San Marino by a goal. That's me being honest. Therefore, it's 100% of you that you think that I'm fishing. People have a tendency to judge others by their own morals, so by accusing me of "fishing" you're pretty telling me that you say and/or do things of a disingenuous  nature in order to incur negative reactions.

Is beating San Marino by a single goal so far-fetched? We've beaten them by two clear goals on four occasions, so I don't think my prediction is as crazy as you make it.

My prediction is based, mostly, on the fact that we don't score goals. It's as simple as that. As yes, if going on the past then it must be used as a barometer of how we'll fair. If you want to see into the future you must first look into the past. And seeing how we struggled against Cyprus at home, Kazakhstan away and San Marino away, I think I have recent evidence of us struggling to break teams down.  

I think there's a significant gap in your argument. 

Dishonesty is not integral to fishing or 'trolling' or whatever you might want to call it. 

If I were to go to a section of the internet where all involved were of the view that Scotland should remain in the political union of the UK of GB &NI and said that i thought they should all vote SNP, i would suggest that is fishing or 'trolling', regardless of the fact that this may well indeed be what I think they should do. No matter how genuine my belief in that suggestion, it does not, I would argue, mean it is not fishing. 

So no, it is not necessarily the case that someone fishing says something they don't also believe. 

I'll leave your amateur psychology analysis vis a vis my moral fibre unremarked, other than to say I feel it's beneath you. 

Is it far fetched? Maybe aye, maybe no. But as I pointed out already, your initial evidence was that we only narrowly defeated Cyprus. Following that logic does anything BUT support your suggestion that we will narrowly defeat San Marino, because Cyprus managed to put 5 past them. This means very little, as it's an entirely different game and you can't take anything from it in any real sense, but you cited a narrow defeat of a team that blew san marino away as evidence that we would... narrowly defeat San Marino. 

We struggled to score more goals in San Marino in March... when the team's spirit and confidence were at an extremely low ebb, when the manager was evidently about to be chopped and when we played Callum Paterson up front. On his own. I did not enjoy the game all that much, albeit there was some decent gallows humour in the stand.

Even then, we had 21 shots and 10 corners. We just failed to score as many of the several chances we created, which can happen when you don't really have a striker on the park. and more importantly when your players are shot of confidence and evidently playing without much sense of urgency or motivation. 

Certainly, San Marino are more lowly ranked than Gibraltar and Malta, teams we scored 12 and 7 goals against in total across two games. The players are far happier under Clarke than under McLeish. We will presumably be playing 3 or four players in attack (we certainly should be, at any rate). They have reason to be motivated and a manager much much better equipped to motivate his team than Mcleish was in March, especially considering the players know there are places up for grabs come the real stuff in the Spring. 

Will San Marino try to sit in and make it tough to break them down? Presumably. Would I expect us to make more of 21 shots and 10 corners, if not more at Hampden? Yes, I would. But do we think for some reason that San Marino DIDN'T try to make it tough to break them down when they played Cyprus? Am I missing something, or was that Cyprus side we struggled to beat decidedly normal, if not poor? Yet they managed perfectly fine to break down San Marino. Are there some wonderfully creative players in the Cyprus team I failed to notice, or something? 

I think it's fairly obvious our team is more than capable of doing something similar. 

Moving on, as I said before I'd really like Clarke do take a leaf out the Strachan book and essentially leave one or two back and let the rest of the team get at San Marino. Play Shankland, play Burke and Fraser and forrest. Try and entertain the fans who do go out to the game. 

 

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21 minutes ago, Alan said:

Maybe it's my age but I am so underwhelmed by these 2 games and the international team these days.  

Our defence is a shambles with so many injuries.  Midfield is ok.  Up front non existant.

Clarke needs more time to work with the players but he can't establish his system as there are so many missing players.  A vicious circle.  To compare the start by Clarke versus the start by Strachan is worrying.

In conclusion.  It's all baws.

The injury disruption is so frustrating, aye. It makes it so so hard for the team to be settled and in place come March. I suppose you could argue that we could get to March and be missing players, but even so. Clarke will now be forced through injuries to play a third centre back pairing. He has had to change it each time he has had a double header. 

Strachan lost his first couple of competitive games, didn't he? But he turned things around quite quickly. Those two wins over Croatia were great. 

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2 hours ago, AndyDD said:

I think there's a significant gap in your argument. 

Dishonesty is not integral to fishing or 'trolling' or whatever you might want to call it. 

If I were to go to a section of the internet where all involved were of the view that Scotland should remain in the political union of the UK of GB &NI and said that i thought they should all vote SNP, i would suggest that is fishing or 'trolling', regardless of the fact that this may well indeed be what I think they should do. No matter how genuine my belief in that suggestion, it does not, I would argue, mean it is not fishing. 

So no, it is not necessarily the case that someone fishing says something they don't also believe. 

I'll leave your amateur psychology analysis vis a vis my moral fibre unremarked, other than to say I feel it's beneath you. 

Is it far fetched? Maybe aye, maybe no. But as I pointed out already, your initial evidence was that we only narrowly defeated Cyprus. Following that logic does anything BUT support your suggestion that we will narrowly defeat San Marino, because Cyprus managed to put 5 past them. This means very little, as it's an entirely different game and you can't take anything from it in any real sense, but you cited a narrow defeat of a team that blew san marino away as evidence that we would... narrowly defeat San Marino. 

We struggled to score more goals in San Marino in March... when the team's spirit and confidence were at an extremely low ebb, when the manager was evidently about to be chopped and when we played Callum Paterson up front. On his own. I did not enjoy the game all that much, albeit there was some decent gallows humour in the stand.

Even then, we had 21 shots and 10 corners. We just failed to score as many of the several chances we created, which can happen when you don't really have a striker on the park. and more importantly when your players are shot of confidence and evidently playing without much sense of urgency or motivation. 

Certainly, San Marino are more lowly ranked than Gibraltar and Malta, teams we scored 12 and 7 goals against in total across two games. The players are far happier under Clarke than under McLeish. We will presumably be playing 3 or four players in attack (we certainly should be, at any rate). They have reason to be motivated and a manager much much better equipped to motivate his team than Mcleish was in March, especially considering the players know there are places up for grabs come the real stuff in the Spring. 

Will San Marino try to sit in and make it tough to break them down? Presumably. Would I expect us to make more of 21 shots and 10 corners, if not more at Hampden? Yes, I would. But do we think for some reason that San Marino DIDN'T try to make it tough to break them down when they played Cyprus? Am I missing something, or was that Cyprus side we struggled to beat decidedly normal, if not poor? Yet they managed perfectly fine to break down San Marino. Are there some wonderfully creative players in the Cyprus team I failed to notice, or something? 

I think it's fairly obvious our team is more than capable of doing something similar. 

Moving on, as I said before I'd really like Clarke do take a leaf out the Strachan book and essentially leave one or two back and let the rest of the team get at San Marino. Play Shankland, play Burke and Fraser and forrest. Try and entertain the fans who do go out to the game. 

 

No. I get your point. I've just always seen "fishing" or "trolling" as saying something or doing something will the sole intent to create mischief and disharmony, but I suppose it doesn't necessarily need to be disingenuous.

In this day and age it would appear a universal rule that no one can give their opinion on anything, ever, as it'll have the potential of causing offence. I just don't like the way that society is heading and how sterile things are becoming. I'll use you as an example, you accused me of "fishing", but I was simple expressing my honest opinion. 

For the life of I'll never understand that. Thank God I'm not on Social Media, if I were I'd rub everyone up the wrong way.

Moving on.

You know what? I just have no confidence in these players, the manager, the system, etc, etc, etc. I'd actually be happy with a 1-0 win against San Marino. It's the match tomorrow that I'm worried about.

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3 minutes ago, The_Dark_Knight said:

No. I get your point. I've just always seen "fishing" or "trolling" as saying something or doing something will the sole intent to create mischief and disharmony, but I suppose it doesn't necessarily need to be disingenuous.

In this day and age it would appear a universal rule that no one can give their opinion on anything, ever, as it'll have the potential of causing offence. I just don't like the way that society is heading and how sterile things are becoming. I'll use you as an example, you accused me of "fishing", but I was simple expressing my honest opinion. 

For the life of I'll never understand that. Thank God I'm not on Social Media, if I were I'd rub everyone up the wrong way.

Moving on.

You know what? I just have no confidence in these players, the manager, the system, etc, etc, etc. I'd actually be happy with a 1-0 win against San Marino. It's the match tomorrow that I'm worried about.

Ach I don't think it's anything like as bad as that. There are very very, ahem, 'robust' exchanges of views on this and all sorts of other contexts day in, day out. 

I responded to what looked a bit like bait to me with a clip from a film that was more intended as humorous than anything else. It seemed more to me that you took offence to that suggestion, rather than me being in any way offended either by your predictions or by what I took, rightly or wrongly, as bait. Society'll be fine. People have been worrying about the way society is heading for, well, as long as we have had societies. 

Would you not say this is social media? A forum on the internet where people talk to each other? I've always been iffy on the difference between social media and websites like this. 

Haha that is an indictment right enough. Tomorrow could be really chastening, I think there is much more chance of the 5-0 defeat you have predicted than the 1-0 win, I'll say that much. At my most optimistic I am seeing a draw, a 1-1 or a 0-0, although how we could keep a clean sheet or even keep them down to 1 goal i'm no sure. You're right, San Marino will take care of itself regardless of what the score is. Tomorrow is going to be tough going, I think. 

Very tough going.

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1 hour ago, bonny78 said:

These games are pointless now.  

 

 

I think it technically counts towards seeding, it certainly counts towards momentum and it ought to count towards preparation for the March games, so I wouldn't go as far as to say they are pointless. They are very difficult to get enthused about, that's for sure. But if we can glean anything out of them that helps us in March, and/or beyond that, then they will have proven worthwhile exercises. 

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Imagine a country that’s so bleak, in which the majority of its land mass can’t be populated due to harsh cold and misty, cutting winds; where the people are grumpy all the time, refuse to align themselves with western values, where the government is corrupt and there’s more public violence per capita than anywhere else in Europe.

Luckily for Scotland, we get a trip away from all that and travel to Russia for this tie in Moscow.

Congrats to the players that are bothering to go.

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7 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said:

Imagine a country that’s so bleak, in which the majority of its land mass can’t be populated due to harsh cold and misty, cutting winds; where the people are grumpy all the time, refuse to align themselves with western values, where the government is corrupt and there’s more public violence per capita than anywhere else in Europe.

Luckily for Scotland, we get a trip away from all that and travel to Russia for this tie in Moscow.

Congrats to the players that are bothering to go.

I hope some of the fans have taken their boots with them.:lol:

 

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10 hours ago, AndyDD said:

Ach I don't think it's anything like as bad as that. There are very very, ahem, 'robust' exchanges of views on this and all sorts of other contexts day in, day out. 

I responded to what looked a bit like bait to me with a clip from a film that was more intended as humorous than anything else. It seemed more to me that you took offence to that suggestion, rather than me being in any way offended either by your predictions or by what I took, rightly or wrongly, as bait. Society'll be fine. People have been worrying about the way society is heading for, well, as long as we have had societies. 

Would you not say this is social media? A forum on the internet where people talk to each other? I've always been iffy on the difference between social media and websites like this. 

Haha that is an indictment right enough. Tomorrow could be really chastening, I think there is much more chance of the 5-0 defeat you have predicted than the 1-0 win, I'll say that much. At my most optimistic I am seeing a draw, a 1-1 or a 0-0, although how we could keep a clean sheet or even keep them down to 1 goal i'm no sure. You're right, San Marino will take care of itself regardless of what the score is. Tomorrow is going to be tough going, I think. 

Very tough going.

Ah. Gotcha. I took the clip as a dig. My bad.

When I think of Social Media I think of platforms like Instagram, Facebook and Twitter. Forums have existed at the very Genesis of the internet. The aforementioned platforms have grown from forums, but I wouldn't say that forums are in the Social Media family.

Honestly, I'm dreading it. Apparently Putin's going to attend the match, I think that might give Russia extra motivation to tear us to ribbons. I'd take a draw right now... even if it meant me nor posting here for another 30 days. I'll make a wager with Satan tonight. :P

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8 hours ago, ceudmilefailte said:

Imagine a country that’s so bleak, in which the majority of its land mass can’t be populated due to harsh cold and misty, cutting winds; where the people are grumpy all the time, refuse to align themselves with western values, where the government is corrupt and there’s more public violence per capita than anywhere else in Europe.

Luckily for Scotland, we get a trip away from all that and travel to Russia for this tie in Moscow.

Congrats to the players that are bothering to go.

haha, I was going to say Moscow and St Petersburg are some of the safest cities I have ever visited. Gave me a good laugh though. 

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