Shankland Call Up?

[Guest ElChris04]

So yesterday Lawrence Shankland scored a hat trick against Morton, that takes his goal tally up to 15. It’s September. Sfranko had this many goals the whole season for Dundee Utd that Shankland has now. He’s scoring goals at abnormal rate. Yes it’s the championship, but so was McGinn when he was called up for Scotland and was class enough. He’s clearly to good for the championship and is proving that week n week out. It’s time we strike why the iron is hot and call up Scotland’s most Inform striker who is clearly well ahead of the league he’s in as McGinn was when he got called up. If your good enough, your good enough. We have nothing to lose at this point when we are already in a striker crisis so it makes perfect sense to me, why shouldn’t we not?

Edited September 30, 2019 by ElChris04

[0Neils40yarder]

He's scoring goals in a pub league

[Squirrelhumper]

He had zero ambition to test himself at a better level, took the easy option and is scoring goals in a shite league that has part timers in it.

We're shite but not quite that shite.

[er yir macaroon]

Bring back the B internationals. I can’t see him being at Dundee Utd in February though. 

Edited September 30, 2019 by er yir macaroon

[vanderark14]

47 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

He had zero ambition to test himself at a better level, took the easy option and is scoring goals in a shite league that has part timers in it.

We're shite but not quite that shite.

The arabs on here could probably confirm but I did read he went to united because they were offering more than the premiership 

I do agree hes playing against part time players and is untested. 

 

[Jim Beem]

Absolutely not. Unless he is on a minimum of £30,00 per week at a lowly English club its not worth considering 👍

[PASTA Mick]

I expect the forwards will be Griffiths, Burke, Martin, McBurnie and Phillips.  

[SkyBlueScot]

1 hour ago, Squirrelhumper said:

He had zero ambition to test himself at a better level, took the easy option and is scoring goals in a shite league that has part timers in it.

We're shite but not quite that shite.

I'm not sure that's fair. He had offers from the Premiership but wanted first team action. In doing so he's given himself another year to develop and progress. Am sure they'll be in the Premier next season but if not maybe then we can judge.

The choice though is awful. If Griffiths and Naismith are unavailable and Fletcher 'retired' that leaves us with what? Phillips, McBurnie, Russell, Burke, Brophy.. Stewart, probably, if he continues. Anyway, I think Clarke should pick him so he can spend a few days watching and getting an idea. So I'd choose Phillips, McBurnie, Burke (maybe), Stewart (possibly) and Shankland.

[todd]

2 hours ago, ElChris04 said:

So yesterday Lawrence Shankland scored a hat trick against Morton, that takes his goal tally up to 15. It’s September. Sfranko had this many goals the whole season for Dundee Utd that Shankland has now. He’s scoring goals at abnormal rate. Yes it’s the championship, but so was McGinn when he was called up for Scotland and was class enough. He’s clearly to good for the championship and is proving that week n week out. It’s time we strike why the iron is hot and call up Scotland’s most Inform striker who is clearly well ahead of the league he’s in as McGinn was when he got called up. If your good enough, your good enough. We have nothing to lose at this point when we are already in a striker crisis so it makes perfect sense to me, why shouldn’t we not?

Why shouldn't we not? 😄The mother of double negatives 😉

[Guest ElChris04]

2 hours ago, Squirrelhumper said:

He had zero ambition to test himself at a better level, took the easy option and is scoring goals in a shite league that has part timers in it.

We're shite but not quite that shite.

So the same applied to McGinn when he was bossing in the championship against part timers but was good enough for a call up under Strachan.... Got his first cap and got MOTM on his international debut for Scotland against Denmark. 

The point is. McGinn got called up and showed his class while he was in the same league. Why can’t Shankland when he’s outperforming and bossing as McGinn done back in 2016? There isn’t a single bit of difference. 

[Guest ElChris04]

 

2 hours ago, 0Neils40yarder said:

He's scoring goals in a pub league

Any acknowledgement on McGinn getting called up for Scotland when he was in the same pup league at the time? Thought not.

There’s zero difference between McGinn Bossing the Scottish championship in 2016 to Shankland in 2019 is now. Both outperformed, McGinn got a deserved call up under Strachan and on his debut got MOTM against Denmark. Why should Shankland not get the same treatment? Simple answer he should and follow the same way McGinn went

Edited September 30, 2019 by ElChris04

[Dalgety Bay TA]

Was he good enough last season when he had scored 28 by the middle of December?

[AndyDD]

With Shankland, it probably does no harm to bring him in and have a wee look. 

I wouldn't be starting him in Moscow or anything mad like that. But there's no harm in bringing him in to the squad and seeing how he measures up whilst training with players that are a cut (or two, or three, or four) above what he has ever played with or against before. 

The chief reason for me is, if he is at a higher level come March, wouldn't it be nice for Clarke to have had a look and gotten to know the lad a bit, and for the squad to have gotten to know him a bit, before then? Especially if our striking options continue to be so impoverished at that stage. It does no harm if he's in ahead of, say, Naismith, who looks to still be injured so won't be any point calling him up anyway. Who else should be filling that space? Griffiths looks likely to be out again. We are looking at Mcburnie, Phillips, Burke, I guess Russel. and then any other. The Mcguire guy from Sunderland? Chris Martin? 

I'll no be greeting if (when) he isn't included, but I don't think there's any reason to be bealin about it if he does get included. Albeit I think the comparison with McGinn is unfair.  It was also clear that McGinn was going to go above even the top scottish league. Shankland might well do this but I think it's far less obviously so. I would argue he looks more likely to be an spl striker for a team who will be aiming for top six. As you would expect his current team to be when (if) they get back up. Besides, wasn't Mcginn initially called up for friendlies?Tempting though it may be to see these as such, we need to sue these to build momentum and cohesion ahead of March. Now is not the time to dish caps out for the sake of it. I expect Clarke to name a squad that is largely made up of the same faces as he has used thus far. 

[Guest ElChris04]

6 minutes ago, AndyDD said:

With Shankland, it probably does no harm to bring him in and have a wee look. 

I wouldn't be starting him in Moscow or anything mad like that. But there's no harm in bringing him in to the squad and seeing how he measures up whilst training with players that are a cut (or two, or three, or four) above what he has ever played with or against before. 

The chief reason for me is, if he is at a higher level come March, wouldn't it be nice for Clarke to have had a look and gotten to know the lad a bit, and for the squad to have gotten to know him a bit, before then? Especially if our striking options continue to be so impoverished at that stage. It does no harm if he's in ahead of, say, Naismith, who looks to still be injured so won't be any point calling him up anyway. Who else should be filling that space? Griffiths looks likely to be out again. We are looking at Mcburnie, Phillips, Burke, I guess Russel. and then any other. The Mcguire guy from Sunderland? Chris Martin? 

I'll no be greeting if (when) he isn't included, but I don't think there's any reason to be bealin about it if he does get included. Albeit I think the comparison with McGinn is unfair.  It was also clear that McGinn was going to go above even the top scottish league. Shankland might well do this but I think it's far less obviously so. I would argue he looks more likely to be an spl striker for a team who will be aiming for top six. As you would expect his current team to be when (if) they get back up. Besides, wasn't Mcginn initially called up for friendlies?Tempting though it may be to see these as such, we need to sue these to build momentum and cohesion ahead of March. Now is not the time to dish caps out for the sake of it. I expect Clarke to name a squad that is largely made up of the same faces as he has used thus far. 

Well said. 

[JandC]

The next 4 games are essentially friendlies so what’s the harm in getting him into the squad to have a look at him.

I agree that the Championship isn’t a great standard but do you think any of our other strikers (e.g. Brophy or Russell) would be scoring as many as Shankland has in that league for Dundee Utd?

The next 4 games are crucial in terms of building a team for the play-offs so use it to have a look at players in form.

 

[scotlad]

I don't see any harm in calling him up, it's not as if our other striking options are exactly banging the goals in at the moment. 

Ideally we shouldn't be calling up guys playing in the Championship but then ideally we shouldn't be calling up guys playing in the English third division either, but we are where we are.

[romanticscot]

I think this has been said above, I would call him up, look at him in training and if signs look positive give him some time against San Marino. All signs look that next summer he will be in Scotlands top tier if Dundee Utd can hold onto him at the New Year. How is his hold up play, height and pace?

[kwhitelaw]

I hate saying this as a Morton fan but I wouldn't be looking at the fact he got a hat trick as any great feat as by all accounts we were utterly shambolic on Saturday!

It's never going to happen anyway 1. Would Clarke even risk it? I know the remaining games are effectively friendlies but imagine chucking him in against San Marino (the only team we could remotely justify playing him against) and we struggle to score again!  Clarke would be torn apart for it!  2. Who would we omit from the squad in his place?  All our strikers play at a higher level and it would be a kick in the teeth for any of those strikers to be dropped for a Scottish Championship Striker. and 3, would he even fit into the style of play Clarke is trying to impose?  I really don't see him fitting in as a lone striker capable of holding up the ball (not that any of our current strikers are doing that to any great effect anyway)

 

[Clyde1998]

24 minutes ago, kwhitelaw said:

I hate saying this as a Morton fan but I wouldn't be looking at the fact he got a hat trick as any great feat as by all accounts we were utterly shambolic on Saturday!

It's never going to happen anyway 1. Would Clarke even risk it? I know the remaining games are effectively friendlies but imagine chucking him in against San Marino (the only team we could remotely justify playing him against) and we struggle to score again!  Clarke would be torn apart for it!  2. Who would we omit from the squad in his place?  All our strikers play at a higher level and it would be a kick in the teeth for any of those strikers to be dropped for a Scottish Championship Striker. and 3, would he even fit into the style of play Clarke is trying to impose?  I really don't see him fitting in as a lone striker capable of holding up the ball (not that any of our current strikers are doing that to any great effect anyway)

 

I think it really depends on who's available. I think most of us would've had players like Leigh Griffiths and Steven Fletcher over players like Brophy, McNulty or Morgan in the last few squads had they been available.

Probably our four best strikers are: Griffiths, Fletcher, Naismith and McBurnie. The question here is who replaces each of them (assuming there's four out and out strikers in the squad) if they get injured or some like Naismith retires? How far up the pecking order should Shankland be when compared to the aforementioned three or others? I wouldn't mind giving him a go should we be missing one of our best four, personally.

Edited September 30, 2019 by Clyde1998

[Orraloon]

I wish more Scottish players would make the same sort of decision that he has. Either stay at or move to a club where he has a very good chance of playing regularly, instead of chasing the bucks to sit on a bench somewhere. I would rather see our young players playing in a "pub league" than not playing at all. 

[0Neils40yarder]

3 hours ago, ElChris04 said:

 

Any acknowledgement on McGinn getting called up for Scotland when he was in the same pup league at the time? Thought not.

There’s zero difference between McGinn Bossing the Scottish championship in 2016 to Shankland in 2019 is now. Both outperformed, McGinn got a deserved call up under Strachan and on his debut got MOTM against Denmark. Why should Shankland not get the same treatment? Simple answer he should and follow the same way McGinn went

I wouldn't have called McGinn up at that point either, just like I wouldn't have called Wallace or Black up when they were fucking about in kid on leagues. 

 

How far down do we go, there are fairly prolific strikers in the junior leagues, are they worth a call-up? 

 

The Scottish Premier is a bad enough standard to be taking players on international duty without going to the league below it... Fucking mental stuff

[AndyDD]

1 hour ago, kwhitelaw said:

I hate saying this as a Morton fan but I wouldn't be looking at the fact he got a hat trick as any great feat as by all accounts we were utterly shambolic on Saturday!

It's never going to happen anyway 1. Would Clarke even risk it? I know the remaining games are effectively friendlies but imagine chucking him in against San Marino (the only team we could remotely justify playing him against) and we struggle to score again!  Clarke would be torn apart for it!  2. Who would we omit from the squad in his place?  All our strikers play at a higher level and it would be a kick in the teeth for any of those strikers to be dropped for a Scottish Championship Striker. and 3, would he even fit into the style of play Clarke is trying to impose?  I really don't see him fitting in as a lone striker capable of holding up the ball (not that any of our current strikers are doing that to any great effect anyway)

 

As mentioned by Clyde1998, it's a question of availability. If we had our own way in terms of available and fit players I doubt many would be putting him in there. I wouldn't. 

But Fletcher seems to have packed it in, Brophy isn't scoring much or in form, Naismith is injured, Griffiths is injured. We have Mcburnie, Phillips, maybe Burke and Russel as options for the usual 4 places. There are guys like Chris Martin, too, floating around. So would we consider Shankland worth including in that grouping? Technically Phillips plays out wide for his club, Burke has been doing that as far as I can tell in the games he has had for Alaves... I would imagine he will be taking those initial four again but might it be worth also taking Shankland, to see him in training? One or more of those guys, like russell who has to go to the USA, could be sent home after the Russia away game without leaving us short. 

As for question 3, would he fit into the style of play Clarke is trying to impose; this would be the point of including him to assess during training, I suppose. 

It's not likely to happen, but I don't think there is much for Clarke to lose out of having a wee check on him. 

[Guest ElChris04]

33 minutes ago, 0Neils40yarder said:

I wouldn't have called McGinn up at that point either, just like I wouldn't have called Wallace or Black up when they were fucking about in kid on leagues. 

 

How far down do we go, there are fairly prolific strikers in the junior leagues, are they worth a call-up? 

 

The Scottish Premier is a bad enough standard to be taking players on international duty without going to the league below it... Fucking mental stuff

If McGinn wasn’t called up way may well have lost to Denmark in our 1-0 win. We have nothing to lose whatsoever calling up. It’s clear he’s quality and just to good to the league. Shankland will likely Ben off to bigger things than Utd come January. And by then it would be good to have such a player in such form in the team 

I can understand why people don’t want players from the championship called up due to face value of the league. But when you look at the bigger picture it really isn’t that bad when you look at past success such as McGinn, I don’t want to compare the 2 but again the league comes into it. 

Sometimes you need to take the small gamble and give a player who is doing everything they can and more. 

[Rab The Crab]

Not for me, yet.

For all his criticism McBurnie would score a pile in the Championship.

Strachan cited McGinn’s performances with the U21’s as being the main factor behind his initial callup in those friendlies.

Like everyone else I hope Shankland is the real deal but I don’t think he’s ready to get a callup until he’s either played and scored for Utd at a higher level(next season)or got a move in January to a higher level and scored goals.

[wanderer]

I have no real issue with him being in the squad, but part of me does feel it’s another Dennis Wyness situation where he can score for fun in Division One, but unable to make the step up to the Premier League, so unless he can take his form into next season and do it against Celtic and Rangers, then for the moment no, what with what we have got already (McBurney for all his performances in a Scotland shirt, his record (especially at Swansea) is pretty much on a par with Jordan Rhodes when he was in his prime) and especially if we can get Griffiths back.

Also, and thing a lot of people are over looking, even if we do call him up and put him into the team, he will have the same problem all our strikers have had of late of being starved of anything being set up for him, and chance will be same as Phillips v belgium where he was just chasing shadows all night.

See folk mentioning McGinn, but he was in and out the team for a while and was only when Hibs were back in Premier League that he established himself, by which time talks about him being destined for Celtic as Scott Browns replacement were starting to murmur.