Eisegerwind Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 (edited) On 9/17/2019 at 10:18 PM, thplinth said: I read about all this years ago and found it very convincing. Did a two week fast on the back of it. Did ye, aye! On 9/17/2019 at 1:47 AM, ParisInAKilt said: I’m attempting a 7 day fast, half way through day 4 now. Day 2 was the worst for hunger, but was less intense day 3 and now I only occasionally feel hungry. Probably not an ideal week to do it, shifts all over the place in work so my sleep hasn’t been great and now driving long distances over the next few days. Not doing it for weight loss but it’s inevitable that I’ll lose water weight and some body fat. How did that work out for you? Edited October 6, 2019 by Eisegerwind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted October 7, 2019 Author Share Posted October 7, 2019 5 hours ago, Eisegerwind said: How did that work out for you? Good, like I said day 2 and 3 were probably the hardest but didn’t feel all that hungry from then. It’s very antisocial though and it took a few days to recover in terms of being able to eat and drink “normally” again. Did a couple of 48 hour fasts since and can eat and drink normally after so find them more practical. Lost roughly 5kg. Think it’s something I’ll do all the time now, even if it’s mostly just 1 meal a day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 I'm not sure about the fast beyond the autophagy. The weight you lose will be the glucose and attendant carbohydrates stored in the liver. You'll only create a say a 7000k energy deficit so that's 2 lbs of fat. It takes longer than 72 to properly reach ketosis so the body will break protein down instead to start which is your lean muscle. So you'll lose some combination of Fat and muscle of about 2lbs, you'll put on 2 kilo's as soon as you have any carbohydratesa or glucose as the liver will store that. If you're already in ketosis then it changes. I'm on a diet right now. I've lost 35lb's so far, the method i picked was to work out my resting calorie requirements then reduce that by a set amount then calorie count. and go out walking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eisegerwind Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 31 minutes ago, phart said: I'm not sure about the fast beyond the autophagy. The weight you lose will be the glucose and attendant carbohydrates stored in the liver. You'll only create a say a 7000k energy deficit so that's 2 lbs of fat. It takes longer than 72 to properly reach ketosis so the body will break protein down instead to start which is your lean muscle. So you'll lose some combination of Fat and muscle of about 2lbs, you'll put on 2 kilo's as soon as you have any carbohydratesa or glucose as the liver will store that. If you're already in ketosis then it changes. I'm on a diet right now. I've lost 35lb's so far, the method i picked was to work out my resting calorie requirements then reduce that by a set amount then calorie count. and go out walking. Radical stuff! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 There's a reason why clenbuterol and similiar drugs abound amongst sports where weight is a consideration, as it allows the body to lose fat without affecting strength or lean muscle. Normal methods aren't effective or as effective when you start really dieting to lose extra pounds. Boxers etc get round it by cutting weight (dehydration) but they get 36 hours to rehydrate before performing, cyclists etc can't race dehydrated. I'd fast for days for the health benefit for dieting not so much as everytime you fast you'll get a 4lb rebound once you replenish which could be very disheartening as you control calories but still gain weight for 36 hours after. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 1 hour ago, phart said: I'm not sure about the fast beyond the autophagy. The weight you lose will be the glucose and attendant carbohydrates stored in the liver. You'll only create a say a 7000k energy deficit so that's 2 lbs of fat. It takes longer than 72 to properly reach ketosis so the body will break protein down instead to start which is your lean muscle. So you'll lose some combination of Fat and muscle of about 2lbs, you'll put on 2 kilo's as soon as you have any carbohydratesa or glucose as the liver will store that. If you're already in ketosis then it changes. I'm on a diet right now. I've lost 35lb's so far, the method i picked was to work out my resting calorie requirements then reduce that by a set amount then calorie count. and go out walking. Must have been another thread where I said that if I was doing it now I would get myself into ketosis first and then do a fast. Then you are in fat burning mode as soon as you do it. I would only bother with a long fast now if I was trying to cure some other ailment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted October 7, 2019 Author Share Posted October 7, 2019 1 hour ago, phart said: I'm not sure about the fast beyond the autophagy. The weight you lose will be the glucose and attendant carbohydrates stored in the liver. You'll only create a say a 7000k energy deficit so that's 2 lbs of fat. It takes longer than 72 to properly reach ketosis so the body will break protein down instead to start which is your lean muscle. So you'll lose some combination of Fat and muscle of about 2lbs, you'll put on 2 kilo's as soon as you have any carbohydratesa or glucose as the liver will store that. If you're already in ketosis then it changes. I'm on a diet right now. I've lost 35lb's so far, the method i picked was to work out my resting calorie requirements then reduce that by a set amount then calorie count. and go out walking. Everything I’ve read so far suggests that fasting doesn’t reduce muscle mass, unless you’re underweight already, while a caloric deficit diet, depending on the amount of calories can cause muscle loss. Ive been drunk a few times since the long fast and the shorter ones and eat a load of carbs and the weight has stayed off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted October 7, 2019 Author Share Posted October 7, 2019 10 minutes ago, thplinth said: Must have been another thread where I said that if I was doing it now I would get myself into ketosis first and then do a fast. Then you are in fat burning mode as soon as you do it. I would only bother with a long fast now if I was trying to cure some other ailment. Wouldn’t fasting be the quickest way into ketosis? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 Also if you are in ketosis when you start a fast I don’t feel you get the three days hunger either as there in no 72 hours wait before you can access your fat reserves. It is that 72 hours gap that is the main source of the hunger when you start a fast IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 Just now, ParisInAKilt said: Wouldn’t fasting be the quickest way into ketosis? No. It takes the same 72 hours avoiding carbs as it does not eating. One is far easier than the other of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted October 7, 2019 Author Share Posted October 7, 2019 Just now, thplinth said: No. It takes the same 72 hours avoiding carbs as it does not eating. One is far easier than the other of course. I guess you could fat fast before fasting but Ive read that it can take some people as long as a week to 2 weeks doing Keto to get into ketosis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 Eat as much fat as you want. It has zero glycemic index. It has calories of course if you are trying to lose the beef but the ideal diet to get into ketosis is from memory 70% - 20% -10%, Fat - Protein - Carbohydrates. Additionally I would completely avoid all added sugar and not include it in the 10% carbs above. Limit the carbs to a ceiling of 30g per day if you are really going for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted October 7, 2019 Author Share Posted October 7, 2019 16 minutes ago, thplinth said: Eat as much fat as you want. It has zero glycemic index. It has calories of course if you are trying to lose the beef but the ideal diet to get into ketosis is from memory 70% - 20% -10%, Fat - Protein - Carbohydrates. Additionally I would completely avoid all added sugar and not include it in the 10% carbs above. Limit the carbs to a ceiling of 30g per day if you are really going for it. I’m not eating meat just now so that’s really difficult and honesty sounds worse than fasting, in a short term weight loss way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 40 minutes ago, thplinth said: Must have been another thread where I said that if I was doing it now I would get myself into ketosis first and then do a fast. Then you are in fat burning mode as soon as you do it. I would only bother with a long fast now if I was trying to cure some other ailment. It can take up to 2 weeks to get into proper ketosis. I have a relative who had cancer and went on ketosis and it took the whole family (as they all adopted the same diet in support) between 7 and 18 days to get into full ketosis as monitored at a hospital in Seattle. You have to be very strict, not that ketosis isn't occurring before , i imagine it was a sliding scale towards ketosis. Your body will breakdown muscles as well as fat to get energy breaking down protein gives you amno acids which the liver can convert into glucose. This is what it will start doing before you fully enter ketosis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 an epileptics ketosis diet is 85-90% fat so thplinth's 70% is right int he middle as normally try and get 60-80% of calories from fat. Like advacado's nuts etc. as opposed to eating poiunds of butter or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 I’d give up vegetables before meat if made to make a choice PAIK! Be disciplined about it and it will take three days. Not sure the circumstances where it took them 2 weeks but personally I have never experienced that delay. If anything if you keep the carbs low generally I find it takes less than 3 days. You know it because occasionally you experience this somewhat metallic taste in your mouth. I typically start eating every day with a bowl of berries and double cream. It is mostly all fat. I enjoy lashing of butter on broccoli and eat plentiful meat again with heaps of butter. Again fat is your friend, carbs are not your friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted October 7, 2019 Author Share Posted October 7, 2019 4 minutes ago, thplinth said: I’d give up vegetables before meat if made to make a choice PAIK! Be disciplined about it and it will take three days. Not sure the circumstances where it took them 2 weeks but personally I have never experienced that delay. If anything if you keep the carbs low generally I find it takes less than 3 days. You know it because occasionally you experience this somewhat metallic taste in your mouth. I typically start eating every day with a bowl of berries and double cream. It is mostly all fat. I enjoy lashing of butter on broccoli and eat plentiful meat again with heaps of butter. Again fat is your friend, carbs are not your friend. Haha I know. Actually I don’t anymore, the vegan and Keto folk are as dogmatic as each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 22 minutes ago, phart said: an epileptics ketosis diet is 85-90% fat so thplinth's 70% is right int he middle as normally try and get 60-80% of calories from fat. Like advacado's nuts etc. as opposed to eating poiunds of butter or something. Macedamian nuts are 90% fat. Walnuts and pecans are right up there too. Avocados are the same.... it is not hard to achieve. If I have a chicken breast I roast in butter and olive oil. I add butter as a garnish. Everything I can do to up the fat content... it is a penance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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