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Best of the U21s


bazmidd

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I can understand being cautious with players who are showing potential and are on the verge of breaking through at lower level SPFL teams. However, when you have youngsters with obvious talent, that you know, barring injury, will be international players, then why not?

Darren Fletcher was in the Scotland 11 before he was a regular at Man Utd, McFadden was still playing for Motherwell when he started getting game time. (No disrespect to Motherwell, but some would say that is grounds for not playing him) Robertson was called up by Strachan when he was only half way through his first senior season with Dundee Utd. This did not hinder their development. In fact, it probably helped them.

So, players like Gilmour, where it is clear he will be a star somewhere, even if that isn't Chelsea, absolutely should be in the Scotland squad. Even more obvious is Mikey Johnstone, who is playing in Europe and a first team regular for Celtic, arguably playing as well as Forrest, and often better. 

If Chelsea and Celtic think they are ready for big games, why not Scotland?

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15 minutes ago, Tartan blood said:

I can understand being cautious with players who are showing potential and are on the verge of breaking through at lower level SPFL teams. However, when you have youngsters with obvious talent, that you know, barring injury, will be international players, then why not?

Darren Fletcher was in the Scotland 11 before he was a regular at Man Utd, McFadden was still playing for Motherwell when he started getting game time. (No disrespect to Motherwell, but some would say that is grounds for not playing him) Robertson was called up by Strachan when he was only half way through his first senior season with Dundee Utd. This did not hinder their development. In fact, it probably helped them.

So, players like Gilmour, where it is clear he will be a star somewhere, even if that isn't Chelsea, absolutely should be in the Scotland squad. Even more obvious is Mikey Johnstone, who is playing in Europe and a first team regular for Celtic, arguably playing as well as Forrest, and often better. 

If Chelsea and Celtic think they are ready for big games, why not Scotland?

Yeh I agree with that, gilmour and Johnston should be in the next squads. Lets get some more young guns in and see what they can contribute.

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10 hours ago, ProudScot said:

I think the point being made is that we would never cap a highly promising 17 year old whereas teams much more successful than us who are better than us and just generally do things differently, always would. 

True but maybe its because they're successful teams.  Introducing a promising youngster to a team that is struggling and where there's not experienced players to help might send them backwards.

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4 hours ago, Tartan blood said:

I can understand being cautious with players who are showing potential and are on the verge of breaking through at lower level SPFL teams. However, when you have youngsters with obvious talent, that you know, barring injury, will be international players, then why not?

Darren Fletcher was in the Scotland 11 before he was a regular at Man Utd, McFadden was still playing for Motherwell when he started getting game time. (No disrespect to Motherwell, but some would say that is grounds for not playing him) Robertson was called up by Strachan when he was only half way through his first senior season with Dundee Utd. This did not hinder their development. In fact, it probably helped them.

So, players like Gilmour, where it is clear he will be a star somewhere, even if that isn't Chelsea, absolutely should be in the Scotland squad. Even more obvious is Mikey Johnstone, who is playing in Europe and a first team regular for Celtic, arguably playing as well as Forrest, and often better. 

If Chelsea and Celtic think they are ready for big games, why not Scotland?

This, especially as our next four games are meaningless in terms of qualification now.

I'd rather have some young players in the squad, who will benefit in the long term from being in the squad, than players who are at (or beyond) their peak and are of SPFL or English Championship standard - even if the older players somewhat better right now.

Bringing through a players who are likely to be part of the core of our team for the next five or ten years while we've got the chance would probably do us some good and start to build a relationship between them. It couldn't result in a much worse showing than our strongest available XI (for that game) losing 3-0 in Kazakhstan anyway.

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To be fair to Gordon Strachan I do remember him integrating younger players at different stages during his time in charge. Just little tasters of the squad here and there. Ryan Gauld was called up at Dundee Utd, John McGinn when he was still young playing in the Championship for Hibs. Andy Robertson as well at Dundee Utd. Even Stevie May at St Johnstone. On the other hand though he very rarely took the plunge and fully trusted them, though to be fair it was a hard call as we weren't too far away from being a decent team at the time. Although he gave them a little taste of it, it still took him far to long to give the likes of Robertson, McGinn even Ryan Fraser etc a regular run of games even when they were playing very well for their clubs. There always seemed to be large gaps between the little tasters Strachan gave our better U21 players and then they became kind of stuck in no man's land between eventually being too old for the U21s and not trusted enough to be picked ahead of Strachans regular old guards. The result now is we have a team with an average age in the early 20s with very little international experience between them and pretty much learning on the job

Edited by bazmidd
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Both true. There's as many youngsters been involved the last three years or so in our squad as most any continental rivals. Why should Wales be the yardstick of what is ideal, are they that great? Also the selection of teenagers with little first team football is a reflection of lack of choice, the weakness of the mid twenties group of players and as a cynical device to get them capped to prevent them playing for England.

We are already well stocked with midfield options, we don't need to pick a kid that has played six minutes of first team football and expect him to immediately improve us. At least Hudson-Odoi had the chance to show he could perform at first team level before England picked him. Also we don't need to prioritise building for the future when we still have a good chance to qualify (albeit through a dubious backdoor route) for next year's Euros. If Gilmour was a striker or a right back or centre back there would be much better justification to take a gamble on him but we already have plenty of players playing at a good level competing in that position. Just the usual typical kneejerk reactions every time we lose a big game.

There's always people saying throw in the under-21 team, but those under-21 players from the past are then the ones that fail with us as senior players in the future anyway, proving themselves no better, or even worse, than their predecessors.....and so it goes on. The delusion that the next generation are so much more talented than the current one still endures though.

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8 hours ago, er yir macaroon said:

He’s not dissimilar to Ian Ferguson of Rangers/St Mirren. Hard as nails, strong and decent ability.

He also has a knack for a goal in big games and is always willing to receive the ball. Doesn't always use it as well as he could and can let his temper get the better of him at times but both of those are understandable for a 20yo who only made his full debut in senior football less than two years ago.

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42 minutes ago, mcnish said:

Both true. There's as many youngsters been involved the last three years or so in our squad as most any continental rivals. Why should Wales be the yardstick of what is ideal, are they that great? Also the selection of teenagers with little first team football is a reflection of lack of choice, the weakness of the mid twenties group of players and as a cynical device to get them capped to prevent them playing for England.

We are already well stocked with midfield options, we don't need to pick a kid that has played six minutes of first team football and expect him to immediately improve us. At least Hudson-Odoi had the chance to show he could perform at first team level before England picked him. Also we don't need to prioritise building for the future when we still have a good chance to qualify (albeit through a dubious backdoor route) for next year's Euros. If Gilmour was a striker or a right back or centre back there would be much better justification to take a gamble on him but we already have plenty of players playing at a good level competing in that position. Just the usual typical kneejerk reactions every time we lose a big game.

There's always people saying throw in the under-21 team, but those under-21 players from the past are then the ones that fail with us as senior players in the future anyway, proving themselves no better, or even worse, than their predecessors.....and so it goes on. The delusion that the next generation are so much more talented than the current one still endures though.

Why should wales?

Because they are a small country with a limited pool who are successful.

We are half of that sentence. 

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12 minutes ago, ErsatzThistle said:

Would anyone (apart from Craig Brown and Willie Miller) like to make the case for keeping players on until they are well into their thirties and only giving players their international debut when they are twenty five or twenty six ?

:lol:

Bang on! 

Craig Brown also the go to guy for the media for “giving the manager a bit more time...”

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