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vanderark14

Scotland v Belguim - match thread

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I said on here when overwhelming majority said steve clarke was only man for job that all he had done was get kilmarnock to 3rd and i got slaughtered for it.

He had same credentials as levein who also got hearts to 3rd.

Scotland playing belgium is equivalent to celtic playing barcelona but what i am most annoyed about is getting pumped from them. We used to always give big teams a game not many years ago but now our confidence is rock bottom and the only upside is after russia away we have 3 winnable games before play off.

Standard of spfl is dire and showed when kilmarnock got beat over 2 legs by part time Welsh team.

Clarke may come good as he has been at big teams and i will give him benefit of doubt for that for now.

Our football is summed up by big Kirk Broadfooot who slaughtered Alessios training methods yet Pirlo one of best midfielders ever praises Alessio to high heavens.

Gordon parks in sunday mail was saying how bored scottish players get working on shape and training needs to be enjoyable which i have no doubt is true but if you cannot do basics and take on good information to help win football matches then maybe you should listen to someone who has worked at the highest level and knows how it is done and not some scottish dinosaur who wants training to be a right laugh.

Continually scunnered with our players who lets be honest do not give a fuck. Ryan Fraser top player in epl not even on last night was obviously saving himself for weekend and until we get a nmanager who gains respect things wont change.

All the media saying our midfield is strong and i actually thought it as well but I was wrong and unless Billy Gilmour keeps up his progress then all we have is Ryan Christie as he was the only one who looked bothered but Clarke didnt start him on friday noght which was a mystery.

Rant over

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17 minutes ago, gaz7 said:

I said on here when overwhelming majority said steve clarke was only man for job that all he had done was get kilmarnock to 3rd and i got slaughtered for it.

He had same credentials as levein who also got hearts to 3rd.

Scotland playing belgium is equivalent to celtic playing barcelona but what i am most annoyed about is getting pumped from them. We used to always give big teams a game not many years ago but now our confidence is rock bottom and the only upside is after russia away we have 3 winnable games before play off.

Standard of spfl is dire and showed when kilmarnock got beat over 2 legs by part time Welsh team.

Clarke may come good as he has been at big teams and i will give him benefit of doubt for that for now.

Our football is summed up by big Kirk Broadfooot who slaughtered Alessios training methods yet Pirlo one of best midfielders ever praises Alessio to high heavens.

Gordon parks in sunday mail was saying how bored scottish players get working on shape and training needs to be enjoyable which i have no doubt is true but if you cannot do basics and take on good information to help win football matches then maybe you should listen to someone who has worked at the highest level and knows how it is done and not some scottish dinosaur who wants training to be a right laugh.

Continually scunnered with our players who lets be honest do not give a fuck. Ryan Fraser top player in epl not even on last night was obviously saving himself for weekend and until we get a nmanager who gains respect things wont change.

All the media saying our midfield is strong and i actually thought it as well but I was wrong and unless Billy Gilmour keeps up his progress then all we have is Ryan Christie as he was the only one who looked bothered but Clarke didnt start him on friday noght which was a mystery.

Rant over

Clarke said Christie was carrying a knock going into the Russia game.

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3 hours ago, dandydunn said:

I was referring to all the points he made. 

I agree with his points re football being middle class and the players being coached so much they turn Into robots. 

 

Hes still a prick

Edited by vanderark14

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9 hours ago, Auchinyell Sox Change said:

There was real negativity after wc 90 ; with a very sparse hampden welcoming rumania & switzerland ( less than 20k i think )

ditto the campaign for wc 94 where we played at ibrox ; was only 20k i think for portugal ; italy closer to 40k but still not full

there was a bit of a feeling of the world ending back then ; in comparison 

but more our ability to compete with the big boys dieing out as opposed to forseeing a dearth of future talent

These attendance figures are accurate but a bit misleading when the circumstances of the time are taken into account.

Only 12,801 were at Hampden for the visit of Romania - the first game after the Italian Wold Cup. BUT it was shown live on BBC1 Scotland.

We had 27,740 a few weeks later for the Swiss game (not screened live), more than double the previous crowd although still not much better than last night.

There was a lot of bad feeling amongst Scotland fans when Ibrox was allocated all our home games for USA 94 as the Rangers Revolution was in full swing and there was a feeling that particular club were already significantly better off than anyone else in the country (little did we know) and many Scotland fans did not wish to contribute to their domination of the domestic game. This resulted in 22,583 for the `home' game with Portugal and just 33,029 against Italy at Ibrox. The SFA took note and rather than have a half empty stadium gave away thousands of free tickets for the game against Malta which shows as a greater crowd than the Italian fixture - 35,490. The number of children in attendance was particularly noticeable in the higher than normal pitched sound of the crowd.

So although the record books list the seemingly impressive crowd for the Malta game they do not reveal the full facts behind that figure.

The remaining two home qualifers (V Estonia and Switzerland) were then rescheduled from Ibrox to Pittodrie.

A similar situation arose recently for the womens game against Jamaica at Hampden when much was made of the crowd in excess of 18,000. This glossed over the fact that far less than half of those attendees were infact  paying customers as again lots of freebies had been distributed to school children.

Nothing wrong with that of course as they are hopefully the fans of the future, but a bit misleading nonetheless.

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8 hours ago, Catchart Circle said:

These attendance figures are accurate but a bit misleading when the circumstances of the time are taken into account.

Only 12,801 were at Hampden for the visit of Romania - the first game after the Italian Wold Cup. BUT it was shown live on BBC1 Scotland.

We had 27,740 a few weeks later for the Swiss game (not screened live), more than double the previous crowd although still not much better than last night.

There was a lot of bad feeling amongst Scotland fans when Ibrox was allocated all our home games for USA 94 as the Rangers Revolution was in full swing and there was a feeling that particular club were already significantly better off than anyone else in the country (little did we know) and many Scotland fans did not wish to contribute to their domination of the domestic game. This resulted in 22,583 for the `home' game with Portugal and just 33,029 against Italy at Ibrox. The SFA took note and rather than have a half empty stadium gave away thousands of free tickets for the game against Malta which shows as a greater crowd than the Italian fixture - 35,490. The number of children in attendance was particularly noticeable in the higher than normal pitched sound of the crowd.

So although the record books list the seemingly impressive crowd for the Malta game they do not reveal the full facts behind that figure.

The remaining two home qualifers (V Estonia and Switzerland) were then rescheduled from Ibrox to Pittodrie.

A similar situation arose recently for the womens game against Jamaica at Hampden when much was made of the crowd in excess of 18,000. This glossed over the fact that far less than half of those attendees were infact  paying customers as again lots of freebies had been distributed to school children.

Nothing wrong with that of course as they are hopefully the fans of the future, but a bit misleading nonetheless.

Yeah was at both italy & portugal games on bus from aberdeen ; was a lot of animosity about venue ; but still feel there was a lot of apathy at the time (90s) look at travelling support for euro 92 and 96 games played in birmingham

contrast that to advent of stag doo saturdays and wc 98 where boys are planning on tv/big screen viewing only

not sure really what my point is ; maybe the social aspect arrested the decline / papered over the cracks ?

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11 hours ago, gaz7 said:

 

Standard of spfl is dire and showed when kilmarnock got beat over 2 legs by part time Welsh team.

Not even where it starts. 

The SPFL is ranked 20th in Europe (Up from 26th a few seasons back).  Weaker than the Cyprus league. 

Our teams (Outside Celtic and Rangers) regularly fail to qualify for the Europa League. Aberdeen and Kilmarnock are already out. 

Look at the past five or so seasons 


Aberdeen, 3rd Round Qualifying UEL (Knocked out by Apollon Limassol - Cyprus)

Rangers, 1st round Europa League qualifying (Knocked out by a team from Luxemborg)

St Johnstone - 1st Round Europa League qualifying (Knocked out by the third best side in Lithuania)

Heart of Midlothian - 2nd round UEL qualifying (Knocked out by the third best side from Malta)

Aberdeen, 3rd round UEL qualifying (Knocked out by second best side in Kazakhstan)

Inverness, 2nd round UEL qualifying (Knocked out by third best Romanian side)

St Johnstone, 1st round UEL qualifying (Knocked out by second best Armenian side).

This is how much the league has slowed down, in the early 2000's the SPFL managed to break into the top 10. From the late 90's to mid 2000's we hovered in the top 15.  Now we are lucky to break into the top 20. 

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Anyone ever stopped to think that that period of 74 to 98 was us punching way above our weight and now we are doing what we should be doing and some?

Im mid 40’s and I’m convinced I won’t see us at a major finals again. There’s not a chance we’ll get through these play offs. 

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6 minutes ago, macy37 said:

Anyone ever stopped to think that that period of 74 to 98 was us punching way above our weight and now we are doing what we should be doing and some?

Im mid 40’s and I’m convinced I won’t see us at a major finals again. There’s not a chance we’ll get through these play offs. 

With the players scotland had in the 80s I'd say they under achieved at world cups.

Edited by vanderark14

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14 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

With the players scotland had in the 80s I'd say they under achieved at world cups.

Did we really though? Were the squads really as good as we biasedly thought they were? Squads/starting 11’s I’m talking about not the individually good players we had. 

You hear it in the conversations today about the current squads. Folk talking about McKenna/Bates coming back into the squad when the reality is they are both fucking hopeless. The list goes on, Christie.....what has he actually achieved to say he’s the answer? McGregor....he’s run of the mill, just because papers talk of £20m bids from his ex gaffer.....he’s nothing more than another run of the mill one dimensional footballer.

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Just now, macy37 said:

Did we really though? Were the squads really as good as we biasedly thought they were? Squads/starting 11’s I’m talking about not the individually good players we had. 

You hear it in the conversations today about the current squads. Folk talking about McKenna/Bates coming back into the squad when the reality is they are both fucking hopeless. The list goes on, Christie.....what has he actually achieved to say he’s the answer? McGregor....he’s run of the mill, just because papers talk of £20m bids from his ex gaffer.....he’s nothing more than another run of the mill one dimensional footballer.

Yes we under achieved. In the 80s we had players who played at the highest level. Our teams were doing well against Europe's best. We should have progressed from at least one group in a world cup with the players we had at our disposal.

I dont disagree with your 2nd paragraph 

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20 hours ago, dandydunn said:

I was referring to all the points he made. 

As much as I agree with his points, he is also charging kids £75 per kid at his football camp. For five days of football.

 

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13 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

Yes we under achieved. In the 80s we had players who played at the highest level. Our teams were doing well against Europe's best. We should have progressed from at least one group in a world cup with the players we had at our disposal.

I dont disagree with your 2nd paragraph 

My memory is hazy. Apart from a couple of years did our teams really compete against Europe’s best in the 80’s? I know the Scots playing for Liverpool and Forest did well but the Scottish sides?

Edited by macy37

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2 minutes ago, macy37 said:

My memory is hazy. Apart from a couple of years did our teams really compete against Europe’s best? I know the Scots playing for Liverpool and Forest did well but the Scottish sides?

Cup Winners Cup winners, UEFA Cup Finalists, European Cup Semi Finalists? Nah, we were pretty shyte.

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36 minutes ago, macy37 said:

My memory is hazy. Apart from a couple of years did our teams really compete against Europe’s best in the 80’s? I know the Scots playing for Liverpool and Forest did well but the Scottish sides?

 

31 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

Cup Winners Cup winners, UEFA Cup Finalists, European Cup Semi Finalists? Nah, we were pretty shyte.

I doubt he didn't know that. 

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20 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

 

I doubt he didn't know that. 

The point I’m trying to make is that happened within a very short period of time and outwith this my memory is we didn’t exactly set heather alight. Apologies if my memory is incorrect I’m not looking for a spat here just trying to get the history behind our absolute failings. 🤷🏼‍♂️

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1 hour ago, macy37 said:

Anyone ever stopped to think that that period of 74 to 98 was us punching way above our weight and now we are doing what we should be doing and some?

We had pretty good teams and players in the 1960s and earlier.

We had a head start though, the rest of the world caught up and flew past us.

 

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On 9/9/2019 at 11:05 PM, Lairdyfaeinverclyde said:

Just got back from the game. After 40 years following Scotland this has got to be the lowest point i can remember. I stayed until the end of the game not through loyalty but just to watch the Belgium team, they are an impressive outfit. I think it's time to give the young boy's a game, Gilmour, Hornby etc in the next few games. Not calling for the manager to be sacked, i think he will resign soon (not what i want). Never thought i would say this but i've had enough. Feel sorry for the younger generation, at least i've seen Scotland be competitive the younger generation will have a long wait to see a competitive Scotland team.

I stayed till the 4 th goal , it was the score I predicted and the only thing that didn't let me down.  

I wasn't expecting much but we were absolutely outclassed in every department. There was, to be fair,  a bit of huff n puff effort from the team , more so than Friday night, but tbh that made it worse as it highlighted  exactly how out our depth we are. 

The only positive was the number of young people at the game ,though chances are they were there to see Belgium . 

Still doesn't feel as bad as after the game at Cardiff in 2012 , that was the worst for me. 

 

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1 minute ago, macy37 said:

The point I’m trying to make is that happened within a very short period of time and outwith this my memory is we didn’t exactly set heather alight. Apologies if my memory is incorrect I’m not looking for a spat here just trying to get the history behind our absolute failings. 🤷🏼‍♂️

Aberdeen won the cup winners cup in 83 beating Bayern Munich and Real MAdrid, They reached the semi final in 84. They also reached the European Cup QFs in 86. 

Dundee United reached the QF of the UEFA cup in 82 and 83 and then finished runner up in 87

Celtic got to the QF of the European cup in 80, they also had a great European record from 67 into the mid 70s

Rangers got to the European cup QF in 88

For a country of our size that's a good record, this doesn;t even include the players we had playing in england in the 80's.

As I said, we under achieved back then just as we are now. Probably because our players don;t replicate their club form for Scotland

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11 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

Aberdeen won the cup winners cup in 83 beating Bayern Munich and Real MAdrid, They reached the semi final in 84. They also reached the European Cup QFs in 86. 

Dundee United reached the QF of the UEFA cup in 82 and 83 and then finished runner up in 87

Celtic got to the QF of the European cup in 80, they also had a great European record from 67 into the mid 70s

Rangers got to the European cup QF in 88

For a country of our size that's a good record, this doesn;t even include the players we had playing in england in the 80's.

As I said, we under achieved back then just as we are now. Probably because our players don;t replicate their club form for Scotland

We really have done nothing in recent modern times in or since that wee golden spell in the 80’s and the game has changed ten fold since then. Our teams are absolutely horrendous in Europe barring the odd blip by the Glasgow two. A right mess yet I really believe those in charge think it’ll just change back over time and I also believe there’s plenty supporters believe we are better than we actually are. We are cannon fodder now, a Latvia, Lithuania type country.

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Just now, macy37 said:

We really have done nothing in recent modern times in or since that wee golden spell in the 80’s and the game has changed ten fold since then. Our teams are absolutely horrendous in Europe barring the odd blip by the Glasgow two. A right mess yet I really believe those in charge think it’ll just change back over time and I also believe there’s plenty supporters believe we are better than we actually are. We are cannon fodder now, a Latvia, Lithuania type country.

I'm not disagreeing with you however we have more EPL starters than Northern Ireland but their players have the passion and desire to play for their country and they continue to out perform us, they beat the teams around their level to give themselves a chance.

I'm not disputing our players are worse than our golden era but they are better than what they are showing when wearing the Scotland jersey. They do not replicate their form from the EPL and Championship when they play for Scotland. Fuck knows whats happened to the Celtic players, Christie looks like the only one who tries. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, vanderark14 said:

As much as I agree with his points, he is also charging kids £75 per kid at his football camp. For five days of football.

 

I found that out last night. Kinda changes things, doesn’t it 😂

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39 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

I stayed till the 4 th goal , it was the score I predicted and the only thing that didn't let me down.  

I wasn't expecting much but we were absolutely outclassed in every department. There was, to be fair,  a bit of huff n puff effort from the team , more so than Friday night, but tbh that made it worse as it highlighted  exactly how out our depth we are. 

The only positive was the number of young people at the game ,though chances are they were there to see Belgium . 

Still doesn't feel as bad as after the game at Cardiff in 2012 , that was the worst for me. 

 

Cardiff was the worst for me too. Three games in, two home draws then the defeat in Wales and that was that. What made it worse was this was for Brazil 2014 - no just a Euros where most of the games will be at home anyway 😕

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If you look at our squad for Italia 90 then compare it to the squads for Euro 96 and France 98 the reduction in talent is staggering 

 

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