Scotland vs Russia [06/09/2019] - Match Thread

[Caledonian Craig]

9 minutes ago, Hertsscot said:

Unfortunately the best one who is eligible doesn't want to play for us. At the minute, if Angus Gunn doesn't change his mind, Marshall is about as good as we've got.

I didn't watch the game last night but its not just the defence. I'm worried that we still haven't got the balance of the midfield right and as others have said we're crying out for a Brown or Ferguson type player who will offer leadership and/or a Lambert/Ferguson type player who will just keep possession and add some composure.  Often those qualities come with age and experience so it remains to be seen if any of yesterdays midfield will develop those qualities.  Stevie Clarke was a clear favourite amongst supporters to get the job but miracles aren't going to happen overnight.

Pretty much spot on post this. 

[RenfrewBlue]

I've refrained from posting until now so that it's not a gut reaction. 

There was so much wrong with that performance it's difficult to know where to start. 

Too many players who weren't good enough on the night and a few that will either never be good enough or are past it. 

But you have to question the tactics too. Why have 2 full backs known for their attacking play when we're facing a side far superior to us? Why play a left footed CB in a position that makes him play on his right, especially when it's his passing we need? 

Why keep punting high balls to the smallest guy on the park? 

The bottom line is we are trying to play football with players who are mostly not technically good enough. If we want to emulate the Irish model then we need to start playing a more long ball game with the players selected to suit that model. Not the 11 from last night. 

[Orraloon]

32 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said:

The one at full time or the ones for McBurnie and Jack  when the team and subs read out pre match?

I never heard the booing before the game. But at the end of the game, it was more like a resigned collective groan than anything else. I think the fans are slowly coming round to accepting how really pish we are?

[SkyBlueScot]

45 minutes ago, AlfieMoon said:

Considering the midfield is the area of the park where we are actually strong and have options I think it was a pretty depressing night. 

Other problems like the RB, centre half’s and strikers are clear as day but last night it was really disappointing to see the midfield completely hide after we went a goal up. Nobody showed for the ball. Nobody was willing to be brave and take it into feet. (Except Christie when he came on and maybe Fraser in flashes). 

It really showed that we need a midfielder in the Ferguson/Brown mould who can really take grip of a game and control it. None of the current blend are up to that. I think the hope is that McTominay will grow into that player but he doesn’t look like it just now. 

I completely agree with this.

I actually don't blame the centre backs at all. I'm not going to attack O'Donnell as he's as good as we've got but the midfield performance was awful. We can all reel off the list of names that we know are good enough but they did not show it last night. That's what's depressing me.

[ParisInAKilt]

We just don’t look like a team either, group of individuals and strangers

[stevenmcn]

53 minutes ago, AlfieMoon said:

Considering the midfield is the area of the park where we are actually strong and have options I think it was a pretty depressing night. 

Other problems like the RB, centre half’s and strikers are clear as day but last night it was really disappointing to see the midfield completely hide after we went a goal up. Nobody showed for the ball. Nobody was willing to be brave and take it into feet. (Except Christie when he came on and maybe Fraser in flashes). 

It really showed that we need a midfielder in the Ferguson/Brown mould who can really take grip of a game and control it. None of the current blend are up to that. I think the hope is that McTominay will grow into that player but he doesn’t look like it just now. 

This nails it for me. Our midfield is, on paper, our strongest position, and has supposedly been for years, but when was the last time our midfield dominated a match? When was the last time we had a midfielder that could dictate the play? For me that would be Barry Ferguson. We can sit all day and moan about the defence but the problem is that currently the defence basically picks itself due to lack of options and also, if the midfield doesn't do its job, then the defence is in for a long night no matter who we have playing. Steve Clarke is going to have to find out quickly, who his best midfield is, not the best midfielder's, but the ones that work playing together. Last night was arguably our best midfield on paper, but got ran ragged by an average Russian side. Things have to change.

[Toepoke]

4 hours ago, infamous said:

The funny thing is we are tied with them on the FIFA Rankings. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
 

Is their ranking not lowered due to not playing qualifiers for the last World Cup?

[vanderark14]

1 hour ago, AlfieMoon said:

Considering the midfield is the area of the park where we are actually strong and have options I think it was a pretty depressing night. 

Other problems like the RB, centre half’s and strikers are clear as day but last night it was really disappointing to see the midfield completely hide after we went a goal up. Nobody showed for the ball. Nobody was willing to be brave and take it into feet. (Except Christie when he came on and maybe Fraser in flashes). 

It really showed that we need a midfielder in the Ferguson/Brown mould who can really take grip of a game and control it. None of the current blend are up to that. I think the hope is that McTominay will grow into that player but he doesn’t look like it just now. 

After 15 minutes the russians new to double up on our left hand side, it completely nullified us. That coupled with a hiding midfield meant the game was over

[TDYER63]

12 hours ago, dandydunn said:

After reading this fully, I’m now glad that I got married 3 years ago today and went out for a meal instead of watch that. 

Trust me, after 30 years you will be begging for a season ticket . 

53 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

I never heard the booing before the game. But at the end of the game, it was more like a resigned collective groan than anything else. I think the fans are slowly coming round to accepting how really pish we are?

On the concourse after the game , and judging the reaction of the crowd, I honestly could not have told you if we had won or lost. No apparent anger or disappointment. There really is a resignation that this what where now are, its  depressing. 

[Dalgety Bay TA]

4 hours ago, vanderark14 said:

did those players really freeze after taking the lead? There are players in that team who deal with much tougher pressure situations on a weekly basis. 

Last night was hardly a cauldron of pressure.

id question their desire to do it for Scotland because the players I watched last night weren’t the same players I see performing at their clubs with the exception of Marshall and Christie. Christie doesn’t seem to care who he plays, he plays with no fear and more composure that all of his team mates.

o’donnell is the only player I’d give the excuse of freezing in a pressure situation but to be fair the lad is just not good enough.

 

 

I don’t think they froze, I just think that Russia actually woke up and started to get into the game. Even before the goal we were doing well and getting at them/getting a few corners but they still looked sharp at times. Once they got the wake up call of the goal they upped their performance and pinned us back. Sometimes you just aren’t good enough to counter that. 

Re desire , I would doubt any player playing professional football at international level doesn’t have the desire to succeed and win. It’s why they are there in the first place, the elite of their nation. It’s just that some of our players have better options beside them at club level hence there performances there look better. Additionally some of them won’t be playing against the same level of quality that the Russian national team has week in week out. 

 

Our base problem is that 3 out of our 4 defenders are not international quality. It’s been that way for a long time. With a good level of defender you will always have a chance. Without it you will always struggle. The one who is quality is also probably best known for his attacking displays at Liverpool, quite often against teams they dominate. If he does make mistakes or is caught out of position, as he can be from time to time, he has the qualities of likes of VVD or Fabinho to cover for him.

The other main problem we have is that when we are under pressure we don’t have a forward who can take in and hold balls to relieve the pressure on us.

Combine a below average defence with no attacking relief and you can see why we lose games.

[Dalgety Bay TA]

40 minutes ago, Toepoke said:

Is their ranking not lowered due to not playing qualifiers for the last World Cup?

It probably is but I am sure they would have also gained some good ranking points for their performances at their WC?

[TDYER63]

54 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

We just don’t look like a team either, group of individuals and strangers

Completely agree. At times it looked like a group of guys thrown together for the first time.

 I didn't get involved in the Oli MCBurnie thread but made a conscious effort to watch him just before the start of the game to judge his body language. He looked totally dejected, head down and and awkward. 

In no way do I blame him for the display last night, he was on a hiding to nothing in his role, but that whole debacle surely has an impact on his mental state for the game. 

[Lairdyfaeinverclyde]

27 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

Trust me, after 30 years you will be begging for a season ticket . 

On the concourse after the game , and judging the reaction of the crowd, I honestly could not have told you if we had won or lost. No apparent anger or disappointment. There really is a resignation that this what where now are, its  depressing. 

Agree with this. Even during the game there was a sense of 'hey ho' that's the way it is, myself included. Don't think i heard one shout of anger or disappointment. The only angry comment i heard was a guy complaining about the stewards and police ejecting a group of young boy's (14-15 year old) who were hammered. They had bottles of mad dog blatantly on show, silly boy's.  Need to learn to put the bevvy in cups or juice bottles.

[KirkieRobRoy]

Deffo sounded like booing to me at full time. Agree that people are resigned. We got what we expected. We're not getting out of this group. The remaining games are a way of finding out who and what and how to play in the playoffs. These are now massive games.

[TDYER63]

14 minutes ago, Lairdyfaeinverclyde said:

Agree with this. Even during the game there was a sense of 'hey ho' that's the way it is, myself included. Don't think i heard one shout of anger or disappointment. The only angry comment i heard was a guy complaining about the stewards and police ejecting a group of young boy's (14-15 year old) who were hammered. They had bottles of mad dog blatantly on show, silly boy's.  Need to learn to put the bevvy in cups or juice bottles.

Haha, schoolboy error, though if I had been standing next to them I would have beaten off the stewards with my handbag just for a slug,  such was the pain of watching that game. 

I am truly concerned about Belgium. Might need to override my self imposed ‘no alcohol on a Monday’ rule just to get through it.  

We were at the pre match event last night, first time I have been at one. Craig Brown and Archie Knox  were the guests, was very good, should just have stayed there. 

[TDYER63]

53 minutes ago, Dalgety Bay TA said:

I don’t think they froze, I just think that Russia actually woke up and started to get into the game. Even before the goal we were doing well and getting at them/getting a few corners but they still looked sharp at times. Once they got the wake up call of the goal they upped their performance and pinned us back. Sometimes you just aren’t good enough to counter that. 

Re desire , I would doubt any player playing professional football at international level doesn’t have the desire to succeed and win. It’s why they are there in the first place, the elite of their nation. It’s just that some of our players have better options beside them at club level hence there performances there look better. Additionally some of them won’t be playing against the same level of quality that the Russian national team has week in week out. 

 

Our base problem is that 3 out of our 4 defenders are not international quality. It’s been that way for a long time. With a good level of defender you will always have a chance. Without it you will always struggle. The one who is quality is also probably best known for his attacking displays at Liverpool, quite often against teams they dominate. If he does make mistakes or is caught out of position, as he can be from time to time, he has the qualities of likes of VVD or Fabinho to cover for him.

The other main problem we have is that when we are under pressure we don’t have a forward who can take in and hold balls to relieve the pressure on us.

Combine a below average defence with no attacking relief and you can see why we lose games.

Good post. 

[Orraloon]

16 minutes ago, KirkieRobRoy said:

Deffo sounded like booing to me at full time. Agree that people are resigned. We got what we expected. We're not getting out of this group. The remaining games are a way of finding out who and what and how to play in the playoffs. These are now massive games.

Massive friendlies.

 

[ErsatzThistle]

Got to make a few changes for the Belgium game. I'd go with:

Marshall, Jack, Cooper, Mulgrew, Robertson, McLean, McTominay, Snodgrass, Christie, Phillips, McBurnie

[Tartan blood]

36 minutes ago, ErsatzThistle said:

Got to make a few changes for the Belgium game. I'd go with:

Marshall, Jack, Cooper, Mulgrew, Robertson, McLean, McTominay, Snodgrass, Christie, Phillips, McBurnie

Completely agree regarding Snodgrass. Even when he is having a bad game, he is fighting for everything and giving 100%. We need passion in there. It's a shame Brown isn't available.

We lacked leaders, someone to motivate the rest when we have no direction or heart. 

[albathebrave]

5 hours ago, RenfrewBlue said:

I've refrained from posting until now so that it's not a gut reaction. 

There was so much wrong with that performance it's difficult to know where to start. 

Too many players who weren't good enough on the night and a few that will either never be good enough or are past it. 

But you have to question the tactics too. Why have 2 full backs known for their attacking play when we're facing a side far superior to us? Why play a left footed CB in a position that makes him play on his right, especially when it's his passing we need? 

Why keep punting high balls to the smallest guy on the park? 

The bottom line is we are trying to play football with players who are mostly not technically good enough. If we want to emulate the Irish model then we need to start playing a more long ball game with the players selected to suit that model. Not the 11 from last night. 

Great post.

[albathebrave]

5 hours ago, ParisInAKilt said:

We just don’t look like a team either, group of individuals and strangers

I  totally  agree!  Surely the manager has got to see that in training!

[Third Lanark]

3 hours ago, albathebrave said:

Great post.

 

[Third Lanark]

Renfrew Blue made the point that we have a left footed CB playing on the right. It's not just that area where we are lopsided - we have too many left-footers full stop:

Robertson, Cooper, Mulgrew, McGinn, McGregor, Christie,McBurnie, Griffiths, McLean, Snoddy, Fleck,...I could go on but surely that does affect the overall balance of the team?

[scotlad]

9 hours ago, Orraloon said:

They don't have to go to Helsinki or Sofia, we play them at Hampden. If, by some miracle, we actually managed to beat one of them, then we might need to play the final away from home. But we could get the final at home as well. Based on last night's performance, I'm not even confident we can even beat Kazakhstan or even San Marino at Hampden.

 

Okay, thanks. I'm even less confident we could go to Oslo or Belgrade and win though!

Finland look well placed in their group to qualify automatically at the moment so it might well be that we get Bulgaria at home. Bulgaria look a shadow of their former selves and England have just beaten them without getting out of second gear, so we might have half a chance.

That said, there is probably someone on a message board in Bulgaria right now going 'Scotland look a shadow of their former selves and Russia have just beaten them without getting out of second gear, so we might have half a chance...'

[ErsatzThistle]

2 minutes ago, scotlad said:

Okay, thanks. I'm even less confident we could go to Oslo or Belgrade and win though!

Finland look well placed in their group to qualify automatically at the moment so it might well be that we get Bulgaria at home. Bulgaria look a shadow of their former selves and England have just beaten them without getting out of second gear, so we might have half a chance.

That said, there is probably someone on a message board in Bulgaria right now going 'Scotland look a shadow of their former selves and Russia have just beaten them without getting out of second gear, so we might have half a chance...'

I think that's a pretty safe bet, sadly !