Squad announcement for Russia/Belgium.

[mccaughey85]

12 hours ago, The_Dark_Knight said:

I've seen him for Scot Under 21s, the main Scotland team, Barnsley, Swansea and now Sheffield United. Not once have I went from the game saying "Wow, McBurnie" played well". He's a strange player. He looks like a target-man but he plays like a poacher.

The predicament that Scotland find themselves in (lack of creativity) I would rather have a target-man, a striker that will hold the ball up and bring others into play, than a poacher.

Saying that, though, I agree with you. The problem doesn't begin and end with McBurnie. The problems lays with generations of bad coaching and general apathy. I mean, we couldn't even qualify for anything when we had the likes of Darren Fletcher, Barry Ferguson, McFadden, Hutton, etc. The team of that era would probably dismantle the current team.

Would it? That team wasnt much better player wise than today's team. We had good  management briefly in terms of McLeish and Smith but the players in that team were of similar level and ability to our players now and we werent really good enough to qualify. 

As for mcburnie I agree hes never impressed me any time I have watched him. Tbf some of those games were for Swansea when the were struggling in the epl and he was having to battle away chasing lost causes but he has also been terrible any time I have seen him for the Scotland u21s and the full team. Saying that he should still be in our squad due to his goal tally in the English championship last season and the fact that we don't much better options.

[The_Dark_Knight]

40 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

Would it? That team wasnt much better player wise than today's team. We had good  management briefly in terms of McLeish and Smith but the players in that team were of similar level and ability to our players now and we werent really good enough to qualify. 

As for mcburnie I agree hes never impressed me any time I have watched him. Tbf some of those games were for Swansea when the were struggling in the epl and he was having to battle away chasing lost causes but he has also been terrible any time I have seen him for the Scotland u21s and the full team. Saying that he should still be in our squad due to his goal tally in the English championship last season and the fact that we don't much better options.

It really depends on how far we go back. I went back to the France match on 2006. This was the first eleven: 

Gordon, Dailly, Pressley, Weir, Graham Alexander, Fletcher, Ferguson, Caldwell, Hartley, McCullough, McFadden

Of the squad as of 2019, only Robertson could get into the 2006 lineup. Fraser, too, probably. Back then we were beating France twice and going toe-to-toe against Italy. (Yes, we were Georgia's bitch, but that's what we do)

The class of 2019 are going to be whipped by Russia twice and Belgium once. There's no doubt that the 2006/2007 team was far superior. I don't trust our players now to be able to keep the ball for two minutes or string half a dozen passes together, never mind beating a team above us in the rankings.

I wouldn't be surprised if Sheffield United let McBurnie out on loan when the window reopens. If he does spend the entire season with Sheffield United I wouldn't expect him to score more than three goals.

I watched Sheffield United against Crystal Palace and I was really impressed by them. The fluidity of their 3-5-2 was really impressive, especially with their overlapping center backs (something I that suggested ages ago, and of course, when people don't understand something they belittle it) that aid their midfield.

I hope they stay up. I think McBurnie will drop down a division as I don't think he's ready for the EPL. I hope I'm wrong and he scores 30+ this season, but the chances of it happening are slim... And the chances of him scoring 30+ goals are also slim.

Edited August 22, 2019 by The_Dark_Knight

[mccaughey85]

1 hour ago, The_Dark_Knight said:

It really depends on how far we go back. I went back to the France match on 2006. This was the first eleven: 

Gordon, Dailly, Pressley, Weir, Graham Alexander, Fletcher, Ferguson, Caldwell, Hartley, McCullough, McFadden

Of the squad as of 2019, only Robertson could get into the 2006 lineup. Fraser, too, probably. Back then we were beating France twice and going toe-to-toe against Italy. (Yes, we were Georgia's bitch, but that's what we do)

The class of 2019 are going to be whipped by Russia twice and Belgium once. There's no doubt that the 2006/2007 team was far superior. I don't trust our players now to be able to keep the ball for two minutes or string half a dozen passes together, never mind beating a team above us in the rankings.

I wouldn't be surprised if Sheffield United let McBurnie out on loan when the window reopens. If he does spend the entire season with Sheffield United I wouldn't expect him to score more than three goals.

I watched Sheffield United against Crystal Palace and I was really impressed by them. The fluidity of their 3-5-2 was really impressive, especially with their overlapping center backs (something I that suggested ages ago, and of course, when people don't understand something they belittle it) that aid their midfield.

I hope they stay up. I think McBurnie will drop down a division as I don't think he's ready for the EPL. I hope I'm wrong and he scores 30+ this season, but the chances of it happening are slim... And the chances of him scoring 30+ goals are also slim.

Personally I would have Robertson, fraser, mctominay, forrest and Griffith's in that team. Gordon back then was alot better so I would go with that version of him than the version now. That leaves dailly(can't remember if he played at left back or right back, pretty sure he played both in his career as well as centre back), weir, fletcher, Ferguson. Pressley was as poor a centre back as the guys we have now so it could be any of them. Also Ferguson was not necessarily much better than mcginn and McGregor imo. So it would be a toss up over who played between those three but I Ferguson would probably edge it.

The two wins against France (as great as they was)were the biggest snatch and grabs you will ever get. They were absolutely lucky wins that came from a little bit of McFadden magic. Admittedly we did play well against italy and we could of got a result but we also got lucky in that game as well as our goal was offside as well as an Italian goal being wrongly disallowed as offside. 

If your suggesting back then that we played excellent football then I am afraid you are wrong, for many years prior and after that campaign we were like we are now and that was absolute horseshit at even stringing two passes together. There's been brief periods in the last twenty years where we have played some decent football and looked like a reasonable side, that campaign was one of them and Gordon Strachans first year or so in charge but that's not to say we haven't had odd games where we have looked good. The main problem imo is management and lack of depth in quality players. We lose an epl quality player and we don't have an epl quality player as back up to come in. 

As for mcburnie we both agree he isn't great but I can't see Sheffield United putting a 20 million player out on loan. 

[killiefaetheferry]

On 8/20/2019 at 10:35 PM, Texas Pete said:

The TAMB appears to be Donald Ducked. I keep getting replies that are meant for someone else. 

You’re right, the Irish pubs are the best part of the away trips and trainers with a kilt is a great look.

[Texas Pete]

8 hours ago, The_Dark_Knight said:

I hope they stay up. I think McBurnie will drop down a division as I don't think he's ready for the EPL. I hope I'm wrong and he scores 30+ this season, but the chances of it happening are slim... And the chances of him scoring 30+ goals are also slim.

Sheffield United will be lucky if they score many more than 30 goals in total this season so I doubt any striker would do that.

A large number of goals from McBurnie won't necessarily be an indication of how well his season goes. His hold up play and goals to chances ratio will be a far better indication on how well he's playing than simply the number of goals he scores.

He's still young and learning his trade and could very well be a huge player for us over the next 10 years. For that reason I'd have him in the squad just now.

[The_Dark_Knight]

9 hours ago, mccaughey85 said:

Personally I would have Robertson, fraser, mctominay, forrest and Griffith's in that team. Gordon back then was alot better so I would go with that version of him than the version now. That leaves dailly(can't remember if he played at left back or right back, pretty sure he played both in his career as well as centre back), weir, fletcher, Ferguson. Pressley was as poor a centre back as the guys we have now so it could be any of them. Also Ferguson was not necessarily much better than mcginn and McGregor imo. So it would be a toss up over who played between those three but I Ferguson would probably edge it.

The two wins against France (as great as they was)were the biggest snatch and grabs you will ever get. They were absolutely lucky wins that came from a little bit of McFadden magic. Admittedly we did play well against italy and we could of got a result but we also got lucky in that game as well as our goal was offside as well as an Italian goal being wrongly disallowed as offside. 

If your suggesting back then that we played excellent football then I am afraid you are wrong, for many years prior and after that campaign we were like we are now and that was absolute horseshit at even stringing two passes together. There's been brief periods in the last twenty years where we have played some decent football and looked like a reasonable side, that campaign was one of them and Gordon Strachans first year or so in charge but that's not to say we haven't had odd games where we have looked good. The main problem imo is management and lack of depth in quality players. We lose an epl quality player and we don't have an epl quality player as back up to come in. 

As for mcburnie we both agree he isn't great but I can't see Sheffield United putting a 20 million player out on loan. 

Wow. Really? Fair enough. Maybe McTominay but in my opinion not Forrest of Griffiths. For me it would probably only be Fraser and Robertson that would make the cut. 

100% agree with that all that. But that's the point, though, the team and the players now just haven't got the mettle to go up against teams of that caliber. Guys like Fletch and Ferguson and definitely McFadden raised their game the greater the opposition. When I look at the team now all I see is a bunch of bottlers. I don't rate any of them, well, apart from four. The rest are just a sad indictment on our failure to develop youth which has spanned decades.

Nope. We didn't play excellent football. We didn't have to as the players were of a higher standard than what they are now, so we were able to grind out results. The current team can't play excellent football, nor can they grind out results. Yes, the players and team that I'm citing never qualified for anything, but they got a whole lot closer than their successors, that's for damn sure. (I don't count the Nations Cup play-off as there was no such thing back in the day)

If they can do it so put him in the shop window with the ultimate aim of trying to cut their losses, I can.

[The_Dark_Knight]

3 hours ago, Texas Pete said:

Sheffield United will be lucky if they score many more than 30 goals in total this season so I doubt any striker would do that.

A large number of goals from McBurnie won't necessarily be an indication of how well his season goes. His hold up play and goals to chances ratio will be a far better indication on how well he's playing than simply the number of goals he scores.

He's still young and learning his trade and could very well be a huge player for us over the next 10 years. For that reason I'd have him in the squad just now.

I disagree. I think they'll surprise a lot of teams this season.

Totally. His hold up play is worse than Griffith's.

Oh, I'd definitely have him in the squad. I might even have him in the first 11... that's how pathetic we are in the striking area. I mean, people are talking about Naismith... No offence to Steven Naismith, but even when he was good he wasn't that good. 

[Texas Pete]

45 minutes ago, The_Dark_Knight said:

I disagree. I think they'll surprise a lot of teams this season.

Totally. His hold up play is worse than Griffith's.

Oh, I'd definitely have him in the squad. I might even have him in the first 11... that's how pathetic we are in the striking area. I mean, people are talking about Naismith... No offence to Steven Naismith, but even when he was good he wasn't that good. 

The bottom 6 last season all scored less than 50 goals. Sheffield United might not get relegated (although I personally think they will) but if they finish higher than 15th I’ll be very surprised so they’ll probably score around 40 goals at the most. 

Even Lionel Messi would struggle to score 20 for them never mind 30. 

I hope I’m wrong and you’re right though because they have a couple of Scots in their squad and it would good to see them doing well. 

[The_Dark_Knight]

I think it'll take a few months for teams to work out their fluid 3-5-2 and I think by that stage they will have collected enough points to survive. At least I hope so. I like their manager and I like his progressive style. His deployment of 3 at the back actually mirrors what I've been saying, what the the center backs moving into midfield whilst in possession, etc.

To be honest, I'm still shocked that they bought McBurnie for as much as they did. 

[BucksburnDandy]

On 8/21/2019 at 6:19 PM, BucksburnDandy said:

At present, I'd like the squad to be:

 

Keepers: Marshall, Gordon, Kelly

 

Defenders: Robertson, Mulgrew, McKenna, Lindsay, Fredericks (if ready to declare), Paterson. Ideally would include Souttar and Tierney but not sure if either will be fit.

 

Midfielders: Forrest, Fraser, McTominay, McGinn, Armstrong, Christie, McGregor, Fleck, Cairney, Snodgrass

 

Strikers: Griffiths, Naismith, S.Fletcher, McBurnie

Looks like McKenna will miss out with injury. Not sure if John Souttar will make it. As such, will be interesting to see who Steve Clarke goes with. Personally would call up Liam Cooper but I imagine Stuart Findlay will get the call.

[ProudScot]

Liam Henderson is starting in Serie A now, surely he will be in this squad? 

[COLT NY]

If McKenna's out, I suspect he'll bring Grant Hanley back into the squad. I'd like to see Findlay called up, but would be happy for Hanley to get another chance.

I'd also call up Shankland. I don't think I'd play him, but if I was Scotland boss I'd want to see how he looks in training at that level.

[vanderark14]

19 hours ago, COLT NY said:

If McKenna's out, I suspect he'll bring Grant Hanley back into the squad. I'd like to see Findlay called up, but would be happy for Hanley to get another chance.

I'd also call up Shankland. I don't think I'd play him, but if I was Scotland boss I'd want to see how he looks in training at that level.

Shankland is at a lower than SPFL Premiership level and that's the only level hes ever flourished in, he failed at Premiership level. 

Theres no way he should be called up.

Fletcher, Griffiths, Naismith and Mcburnie should be our forwards.

[The_Dark_Knight]

Fletcher is flirting with the notion of international retirement. Griffiths is nowhere near match fit and Naismith isn't even fit.

McBurnie is our only option.

Hardly encouraging. (this is the second thread where I've said that)

[Orraloon]

3 hours ago, The_Dark_Knight said:

Fletcher is flirting with the notion of international retirement. Griffiths is nowhere near match fit and Naismith isn't even fit.

McBurnie is our only option.

Hardly encouraging. (this is the second thread where I've said that)

Not like you to repeat yourself.

[The_Dark_Knight]

Clarke has been in the job for a few months but I think it must be only now that he realises how much he's swimming against the tide.

The problem positions are goalkeeper, right back, centerback, anchorman and striker.

I don't envy Steve Clarke.

[mccaughey85]

6 hours ago, The_Dark_Knight said:

Clarke has been in the job for a few months but I think it must be only now that he realises how much he's swimming against the tide.

The problem positions are goalkeeper, right back, centerback, anchorman and striker.

I don't envy Steve Clarke.

He's probably quite aware of our limitations as most of the world is. He was also aware of Kilmarnocks limitations but still took that job. By problem positions you mean he doesn't have world class players in every position. Well sadly that's Scotland, we have never had top players in each position since the 80s. If you are going to be constantly negative about the team you should support a nation with lots of top players because Scotland will likely never have a squad of top class players.

What are you trying to achieve by constantly berating our players, imagine I went on the Kilmarnock FC forum and constantly complained that they have no world class players and all the players are rubbish. You would think I am extremely stupid and would immediately wonder why I expect Kilmarnock to have world beaters in every position. Why do you expect Scotland to have a squad full of top class players, I don't think any other person on this forum expects anywhere near what you expect.

  How many nations are there under 8 or 9m people that constantly produce top class players. I can only really think of two and that's Uruguay and Croatia. Maybe you can tell me some more because most small nations tend to struggle in the same manner we do.

[adamntg]

8 hours ago, The_Dark_Knight said:

Clarke has been in the job for a few months but I think it must be only now that he realises how much he's swimming against the tide.

The problem positions are goalkeeper, right back, centerback, anchorman and striker.

I don't envy Steve Clarke.

Maybe he could try Andy Robertson at anchorman?

[vanderark14]

I expect Ryan Jack will be called up and Shinnie left out of the squad. Jack will be back up and nothing more.

I dont see any surprises when the squad is announced.

McGinn, mctominey, Robertson and Fraser are the must starters for me. McGinn will be buzzing with confidence at the moment. 

I'd be tempted to go with Griffiths upfront. I know hes not starting for Celtic but he will be desperate for game time and goals. 

[hampdenroarpod]

I've heard Grant Hanley and Liam Cooper will be included today.

[Squirrelhumper]

On ‎8‎/‎25‎/‎2019 at 10:28 PM, COLT NY said:

If McKenna's out, I suspect he'll bring Grant Hanley back into the squad. I'd like to see Findlay called up, but would be happy for Hanley to get another chance.

I'd also call up Shankland. I don't think I'd play him, but if I was Scotland boss I'd want to see how he looks in training at that level.

Findlay struggling with a knock.

[Orraloon]

Two call offs before the squad has even been announced. We must have the most injury prone squad on the planet.

[Squirrelhumper]

3 hours ago, adamntg said:

Maybe he could try Andy Robertson at anchorman?

Surely he just goes to 3 at the back and all our woes will end?

[Squirrelhumper]

17 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

Two call offs before the squad has even been announced. We must have the most injury prone squad on the planet.

Never said he was out the squad, said he was struggling.

[Orraloon]

44 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

Never said he was out the squad, said he was struggling.

Hopefully nothing too serious.