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Kieran Tierney's lack of commitment towards Scotland


The_Dark_Knight

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8 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

Gareth Bale 81 Caps (Age 30)

Ronaldo 162 Caps. (Age 34)

Messi 136 Caps (age 32)

Steven Davis 113 Caps (Age 34)

The time away from their family doesn't appear to affect them much and 3 of those have more money than you could ever spend.

Absolutely. We have to have the worst mindset on the planet for not giving a fuck about our national team.

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I think Clarke is playing this coy currently, he won't want to rock any boats just yet, but he is quite hard line, and my guess is it will be 3 strikes and your out with him. If next time Arsenal or Tierney play this card again I think he will have an altogether different reaction and approach. My guess is Arsenal have a recovery programme set out for him just now and he has played quite a few games recently and probably this international break is also planned in as a recovery period to just manage him a bit after such lengthy injury problems. I am beginning to doubt Tierney myself and have been for a while but seeing as this is a big move for him to a big club and going there whilst injured I think he will be going with what Arsenal have planned for him for now. Once this recovery plan is complete though I wouldn't expect any call offs like this from him or to be honest there will probably be no way back for him with the TA as there has been almost one too many sicknotes already. 

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Guest ElChris04

Feel absolutely terrible for doubting Tierney now... only managed to play the full 90 minutes... my heart bleeds for his “ongoing issues” 

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1 hour ago, Squirrelhumper said:

Gareth Bale 81 Caps (Age 30)

Ronaldo 162 Caps. (Age 34)

Messi 136 Caps (age 32)

Steven Davis 113 Caps (Age 34)

The time away from their family doesn't appear to affect them much and 3 of those have more money than you could ever spend.

Exactly

I have had the being away from family argument many times on here, its a non starter

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1 hour ago, Squirrelhumper said:

Gareth Bale 81 Caps (Age 30)

Ronaldo 162 Caps. (Age 34)

Messi 136 Caps (age 32)

Steven Davis 113 Caps (Age 34)

The time away from their family doesn't appear to affect them much and 3 of those have more money than you could ever spend.

I think your are possibly missing the point if you are listing two of the most driven players in the history of world football, who played for two of the biggest nations going, as examples of players who do want to play for the country.

I will summarise. It’s not all players who might feel this way, only some. The “week of football” is a factor. The lack of success and continuity may have an impact.

Think about yourself as a fan. You have been about here years. Do you still have the same enthusiasm now as you did 10 years ago when we would think nothing of firing off to friendlies at the end of a season or double headers spanning most of Europe? Or has the lack of success and the week of football, and possibly some other factors too, dulled your desire to follow Scotland. It’s certainly done a lot to kill mines, that’s for sure. 

Some of these may be reasons why our best option at centre forward doesn’t want to play. Likewise our best goalie and one of our best options in the centre of midfield. We have also seen the likes of Snodgrass and McArthur pass on international football as well in recent times.
 

Its not just us. England have had Carragher and more recently Vardy give up on international selection. Possibly because they were never going to be first choice but Vardy would surely still be an England option even now? Giggs was a notable sicknote for Wales in friendlies especially. 
 

As I started, for the majority of us fans it’s not really conceivable that you wouldn’t want to play for your country. Especially us on here who have probably spent time and money over the years committing to follow Scotland. And probably equally as much time on here talking about Scotland. But I do feel, for SOME players, it’s not thought of anywhere near the levels of the “honour” and “privilege” that us fans feel it would be. It’s wouldn’t be a surprise to me if their commitment wasn’t at same level as ours and that translates into their willingness to play for Scotland.

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23 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

Exactly

I have had the being away from family argument many times on here, its a non starter

It really is. Two men who have just been involved with the SFA and the national team has said as much. I will take their opinions of actually being there and facing these problems and making these decisions over your non informed opinion thanks.
 

You can choose to not believe that if you want, and I know you have previous of not wanting to believe things from those who have more information and understanding than you, but it is a thing. 
 

Just because every player doesn’t have that view or outlook certainly doesn’t mean SOME players don’t. Call it being away from home, family, routine, club fitness set up, needing rests or short breaks but it’s definitely a thing about why certain people aren’t playing for us.
 

 

Edited by Dalgety Bay TA
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4 minutes ago, Dalgety Bay TA said:

It really is. Two men who have just been involved with the SFA and the national team has said as much. I will take their opinions of actually being there and facing these problems and making these decisions over your non informed opinion thanks.
 

You can choose to not believe that if you want, and I know you have previous of not wanting to believe things from those who have more information and understanding than you, but it is a thing. 
 

Just because every player doesn’t have that view or outlook certainly doesn’t mean SOME players don’t. 
 

 

 

Its interesting that you argued with me last time tierney refused to be called up but now you say you can't defend him in another post. Do you no longer believe the experts at Arsenal? Surely the medical experts at Arsenal have more information and understanding than you.

 

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7 minutes ago, Dalgety Bay TA said:

It really is. Two men who have just been involved with the SFA and the national team has said as much. I will take their opinions of actually being there and facing these problems and making these decisions over your non informed opinion thanks.
 

You can choose to not believe that if you want, and I know you have previous of not wanting to believe things from those who have more information and understanding than you, but it is a thing. 
 

Just because every player doesn’t have that view or outlook certainly doesn’t mean SOME players don’t. Call it being away from home, family, routine, club fitness set up, needing rests or short breaks but it’s definitely a thing about why certain people aren’t playing for us.
 

 

Also, I am not disputing its "thing". I have no doubt some shite bags will use being away from family as an excuse not to be selected, I am saying its a pish excuse which holds no weight

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1 minute ago, vanderark14 said:

Also, I am not disputing its "thing". I have no doubt some shite bags will use being away from family as an excuse not to be selected, I am saying its a pish excuse which holds no weight

“Shite bags”. FFS, are you 12? 😂😂

Just because you feel it doesn’t hold weight with your life doesn’t mean it doesn’t hold weight with others. 

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36 minutes ago, Dalgety Bay TA said:

“Shite bags”. FFS, are you 12? 😂😂

Just because you feel it doesn’t hold weight with your life doesn’t mean it doesn’t hold weight with others. 

I will leave it there. 

 

You seem more determined to have a dig at me in your last two posts rather than actually debate the issue

 

Enjoy your night

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I think that the being away from family thing could be a legitimate factor for players with kids etc. Which I don’t think applies to Tierney?

Your EPL level players aren’t going to be juggling childcare and their wife working shifts and it’s these guys that are making themselves unavailable. Your Aberdeen, Motherwell, Killie and Hearts players are more likely to struggle with these sort of real life issues.

The week of football hasn’t really changed much, I feel that factor is overplayed. We used to play Saturday and Wednesday, can now play Thursday Monday and be home 2 days earlier... Wednesday is still the last day you can play.

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10 hours ago, Dalgety Bay TA said:

I think your are possibly missing the point if you are listing two of the most driven players in the history of world football, who played for two of the biggest nations going, as examples of players who do want to play for the country.

I will summarise. It’s not all players who might feel this way, only some. The “week of football” is a factor. The lack of success and continuity may have an impact.

Think about yourself as a fan. You have been about here years. Do you still have the same enthusiasm now as you did 10 years ago when we would think nothing of firing off to friendlies at the end of a season or double headers spanning most of Europe? Or has the lack of success and the week of football, and possibly some other factors too, dulled your desire to follow Scotland. It’s certainly done a lot to kill mines, that’s for sure. 

Some of these may be reasons why our best option at centre forward doesn’t want to play. Likewise our best goalie and one of our best options in the centre of midfield. We have also seen the likes of Snodgrass and McArthur pass on international football as well in recent times.
 

Its not just us. England have had Carragher and more recently Vardy give up on international selection. Possibly because they were never going to be first choice but Vardy would surely still be an England option even now? Giggs was a notable sicknote for Wales in friendlies especially. 
 

As I started, for the majority of us fans it’s not really conceivable that you wouldn’t want to play for your country. Especially us on here who have probably spent time and money over the years committing to follow Scotland. And probably equally as much time on here talking about Scotland. But I do feel, for SOME players, it’s not thought of anywhere near the levels of the “honour” and “privilege” that us fans feel it would be. It’s wouldn’t be a surprise to me if their commitment wasn’t at same level as ours and that translates into their willingness to play for Scotland.

Bit misleading using Carragher and Vardy, no? Both weren’t starting games and at least in their late 20’s when they chucked it. 

*as you said ha. 

With each squad it becomes harder to give Tierney the benefit of the doubt.

Edited by ParisInAKilt
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2 hours ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Bit misleading using Carragher and Vardy, no? Both weren’t starting games and at least in their late 20’s when they chucked it. 

*as you said ha. 

With each squad it becomes harder to give Tierney the benefit of the doubt.

Just two very quick examples of the top of my head.

There has to be something why players, young and old, are ducking Scotland squads. Grant and Fletcher have both mentioned about the demands of now being together 10 days or more and it not being ideal.

As I mentioned at start, for us fans, who actually spend money home and away, it’s hard to accept players aren’t as committed to Scotland as we feel we are. 

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8 hours ago, sbcmfc said:

I think that the being away from family The week of football hasn’t really changed much, I feel that factor is overplayed. We used to play Saturday and Wednesday, can now play Thursday Monday and be home 2 days earlier... Wednesday is still the last day you can play.

I think it's Thursday/Sunday,  Friday/Monday and Saturday/Tuesday. 

 

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8 hours ago, sbcmfc said:

I think that the being away from family thing could be a legitimate factor for players with kids etc. Which I don’t think applies to Tierney?

Your EPL level players aren’t going to be juggling childcare and their wife working shifts and it’s these guys that are making themselves unavailable. Your Aberdeen, Motherwell, Killie and Hearts players are more likely to struggle with these sort of real life issues.

The week of football hasn’t really changed much, I feel that factor is overplayed. We used to play Saturday and Wednesday, can now play Thursday Monday and be home 2 days earlier... Wednesday is still the last day you can play.

We didn’t always have double headers guaranteed though. Week of football pretty much guarantees that is the case every month from September to November.

I think you are taking the “being away from family” too literally. Doesn’t have to be kids, doesn’t even have to be even wife or girlfriend, I’m not saying their partners are struggling to cope at home. It’s more the just being away from your normal routine, home comforts, chance to get rid of a niggle or ease something for a couple of days off.
 

Again I will say for us as fans it’s nuts that we would look on those sort of situations as being a hardship over the chance to represent our country but I just have feeling for SOME players they would rather not make that sacrifice. Steven Fletcher and Peter Grant have both alluded to this being the case.

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I suppose they aren't really under any obligation to explain it further, but it would help immeasurably if they could be clear about the ins and outs of the whole affair. 

Was there a conversation between the Arsenal medical team and the SFA medical team? Was their a conversation between manager and player? 

I cannae really criticise folk on here for jumping the gun when the situation is handled so vaguely. 

Clarke was characteristically tight-lipped in his conference and it was difficult to tell from him and his answers what, if anything, the real story is. 

I mentioned yesterday that Tierney played for Scotland wi a broken jaw, or ten days after having it broken at any rate. I think it would be churlish to say he didn't have commitment then. I suppose the question is has that changed (it does certainly look that way) and if so, why? 

 

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12 minutes ago, AndyDD said:

I suppose they aren't really under any obligation to explain it further, but it would help immeasurably if they could be clear about the ins and outs of the whole affair. 

Was there a conversation between the Arsenal medical team and the SFA medical team? Was their a conversation between manager and player? 

I cannae really criticise folk on here for jumping the gun when the situation is handled so vaguely. 

Clarke was characteristically tight-lipped in his conference and it was difficult to tell from him and his answers what, if anything, the real story is. 

I mentioned yesterday that Tierney played for Scotland wi a broken jaw, or ten days after having it broken at any rate. I think it would be churlish to say he didn't have commitment then. I suppose the question is has that changed (it does certainly look that way) and if so, why? 

 

Peter Grant said on one of the podcasts I listened to that Steven Fletcher had an injury which needed a small operation and that's why he wasn't picked on one occasion. He then said it wasn't Scotland's right to disclose that X player had an injury and was having to have an operation. I have the feeling that we (Clarke/SFA) do know what's what but they aren't at liberty to disclose what's what!

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1 hour ago, Toepoke said:

I think it's Thursday/Sunday,  Friday/Monday and Saturday/Tuesday. 

 

Aye, that’s what I meant.

Take the point about all being double headers now.

In an ideal world where you always have everyone available you’d maybe use friendly and nations league games to let players sit out a squad or go home after the 1st game on a rotation basis.

The June dates must be a hard sell. Although don’t remember it being a problem when we played England in June...

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20 minutes ago, AndyDD said:

I suppose they aren't really under any obligation to explain it further, but it would help immeasurably if they could be clear about the ins and outs of the whole affair. 

Was there a conversation between the Arsenal medical team and the SFA medical team? Was their a conversation between manager and player? 

I cannae really criticise folk on here for jumping the gun when the situation is handled so vaguely. 

Clarke was characteristically tight-lipped in his conference and it was difficult to tell from him and his answers what, if anything, the real story is. 

I mentioned yesterday that Tierney played for Scotland wi a broken jaw, or ten days after having it broken at any rate. I think it would be churlish to say he didn't have commitment then. I suppose the question is has that changed (it does certainly look that way) and if so, why? 

 

I thought Clarke said he didn't speak to KT????

The fans deserve a lot more honesty but as always they remain tight lipped for fear of upsetting someone or tainting a players reputation.

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17 hours ago, The_Dark_Knight said:

OK. I'll retract that comment, how do we know that Aberdeen didn't ask the SFA to exclude McKenna? If they had, do you think McKenna would be cool with that?

I'm not sure why you're dragging this out and pontificating.

The issue is a clear one. Over the previous three years, Kieran Tierney has pulled out of the vast majority of Scotland squads. I'm not sure whether you think I'm making this up or not. It's as clear as day. For Celtic, he played on multiple occasions with injury and lingering injury, and yet for Scotland he doesn't. Not that I'm asking him to play through injury for us, but I think it's pretty apparent that he wouldn't, given the choice. Players like Billy Bremner and Dave Mackay would've played for Scotland with a broken leg.

What would Brenmner and Mackay make of Kieran Tierney? They'd probably pat him on the head and ask him what time's his bed time.

You can keep defending him all you like. Not many people will.

Haha, fair enough, I suppose we don't know if Aberdeen made that request. I'm going to assume they did not because there is no reason to think they did, but I suppose they might have. How would McKenna feel about that? No idea. You'd have to ask him. 

Hahaha, well, I cannae help myself sometimes, you might know the feeling... 

The amount of times he has pulled out or not been included due to injury is clear, aye. The fact that overt the last 2-3 years his career in general has been severely interrupted by genuine injury is similarly beyond dispute. As is the fact that he has played for us through injury before. I would suggest that his time doing so for Celtic was an error on the part of celtic who should not have allowed it and who had done the guy a detriment in how thoroughly they overused him and took advantage of his devotion to his club. I also think it's fair to say his devotion to celtic outstripped his to Scotland by the power of a lot. 

It's possible that Arsenal are managing his move to full fitness better than Celtic ever did. That is how it seems to me, at any rate. But we are suffering his absence as a consequence of this and i'm not the least bit happy about that.  At the same time, i'm not going to call for him to be exiled from inclusion in the future or make categorical claims about his motivation, interest, character etc. We've heard nothing on it from the guy, which is itself disappointing. 

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17 hours ago, vanderark14 said:

Last time they were managing him through the immediate period, theres no excuse this time.  He is playing from the start in both the EL and EPL for Arsenal, we have players like Naismith and Mckenna just back from injury but both would run through walls for scotland. 

It is possible he may not play at the weekend but again that would be strange considering he started for Arsenal against CP last week and again tonight in the EL. 

There comes a point when excuses need to stop, that time is now. Tierney is fit, thats not even up for debate anymore. He should be going to Cyprus 

That's fair, it's not like Clarke, and the fans, have not been reasonable and patient about it up until now. We all expected he'd be in this time and the ground is surely a lot thinner than it was last time. 

He certainly doesn't seem as willing as those guys, that's for sure. Their clubs also seem far less obstructive about it all, a benefit of them being Scottish teams I guess. Arsenal have no affiliation with Scotland or the SFA,  and nobody is going to ask Unai Emery about this, but hearts and aberdeen would be getting it tight from the media up here. 

Aye, they have been staggering his appearances initially but less so of late;  he played CP, Wolves and yesterday. Came off the bench in their cup game, I think? Late on? Not sure. 

He's fit to play a match, aye, seems that way. I believe their argument is that they are wanting to work further on treatment for his 'ongoing issue' during the break, presumably the same issue that has meant they were drip feeding him into the first team to begin with. 

That drip seems more like a stream now, which confounds our frustrations. 

As SquirrelHumper said, you'd hope the SFA could have tried to arrange a compromise where he comes for one and misses the other. Maybe they did and failed, which is a problem in and of itself. 

As for Clarke saying he'd spoken to him; that was my impression as well when he said 'frustrating for Kieran as well' but I think he also said that it came through on the 'list' of unavailable players, whatever the hell that is, so I'm not really clear on the exact details of what happened. 

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12 hours ago, Malcolm said:

He isn’t interested and we don’t need him.

He possibly isn't interested but the sad thing is, we do need him.

Robertson's obviously first pick at left-back but if anything were to happen to him, e.g. injury or suspension, then we're left with some SPFL/English Championship standard player as his replacement, weakening our already chronic defence.

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1 hour ago, scotlad said:

He possibly isn't interested but the sad thing is, we do need him.

Robertson's obviously first pick at left-back but if anything were to happen to him, e.g. injury or suspension, then we're left with some SPFL/English Championship standard player as his replacement, weakening our already chronic defence.

We would be left with Greg Taylor, anyone know how he has been getting on at Celtic?

 

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