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Kieran Tierney's lack of commitment towards Scotland


The_Dark_Knight

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It certainly adds fuel to the theory that he can take or leave playing for Scotland.

Can’t discount their being genuine reasons for him sitting this out, but you’d have to presume he has some say in this.

Awkward one for the SFA, as they don’t want to damage any relationship with the player or club, but looking at Tierney and several others, is it time we got a bit tougher?

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Guest ElChris04

 

 Kieran Tierney starting for arsenal. fit enough to play in the Europa league but not fit enough to play for Scotland. this confirming what a lot of us are thinking? Arsenal really have taking the piss with Clarke. 
 

Absolute shambles. 

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6 hours ago, AndyDD said:

Arsenal paid 25 million for a player who was injured and have slowly introduced him into their playing squad. They therefore appear to have requested that he misses these games so that they can continue to treat an 'ongoing issue' and the SFA have acquiesced to this request. 

He's been back 10 days longer than Scott McKenna, and yet you don't see Aberdeen "ask" the SFA to not include their captain, so the "just back from injury, the poor wee soul" doesn't wash.

£25m? EPL clubs pay that annually on toilet paper. It's peanuts for EPL clubs. Manchester United paid double that for Fred and he's a back-up player.

6 hours ago, AndyDD said:

Had Man U just spent that sort of money on an injured player who they were only now getting into first team action, who may or may not have an ongoing issue that needs further treatment, they might have a similar attitude. It's an infuriating aspect of contemporary football, that's for sure. Besides, you can't ignore the fact that this period of time when Tierney has not been able to play for Scotland he has played little to no club football, either.

In this day and age players dictate to clubs, not the other way around. If Kieran Tierney wanted to play for Scotland for the upcoming matches, he'd be here. It really is as simple and clear-cut as that. In your words, Arsenal paid £25m for him, do you honestly think they'd punish Tierney's insubordination by not picking him?

I remember whilst Darren Fletcher was suffering from his illness, he drove up to Scotland to play in an away match against Malta, dropping every 30 minutes because of his illness. That's dedication. Darren Fletcher played through life-altering illness for Scotland. Tierney is fit enough to be in 7 match squads (playing in 4) for his club but he isn't well enough to come up to Scotland and be with his team-mates, even to show encouragement?

Aren't you the alleged "hard taskmaster"? Didn't you lambast Scott McTominay for not bursting a lung trying to get back when he made a mistake against Norwich? (I think it was Norwich) Strange inconsistency.

6 hours ago, AndyDD said:

Like I said, you are suggesting, no ion fact you are insisting you now know for a fact (and have clearly felt for some time) that Tierney has no appetite to play for Scotland, but this is a guy who was in the dark blue with a broken jaw, metal plate in place, 10 days after it was smashed. 

And Tierney admitted himself that he played through injury, on many occasions, for Celtic.

36 minutes ago, gonzohiggy said:

Yeah, I thought it was quite funny how you repeated 'real manager' for emphasis, almost like longing for a REAL man. It's such an absurd suggestion, that Steve Clarke is not a real manager. What is he, then? A guy you don't like because he has decided to play 4 at the back? A fictional manager? One made out of foam?

Mate, you're the one who said "REAL" manager. I'm still not sure what that means, as you haven't explained. Maybe you can elaborate.

6 hours ago, AndyDD said:

You have absolutely no idea how it went, so you do not know if Clarke or the SFA were 'dictated to'. Nor do I know how it went behind the scenes. But I do not think it's as black and white as you suggest, nor am I as willing to make assertions about someone's character in such a categorical manner, when I've never met them. 

Do you think I'm using this opportunity as a bat to whack him with? No. I'm using the previous 3 years.

The frequency that he pulls out of Scotland squads is vast. As I said, McTominay has played as many matches for Scotland that Tierney has in 3.

And yes, you're an apologist. You're making excuses for Arsenal, Tierney and Clarke.

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Guest ElChris04

If your Steve Clarke and right now finding out Tierney is in tonight’s match day europa league line up, what would you proceed to do next? Contact arsenal? Or Kieran Tierney himself? I feel it’s definitely needing addressing big time as it’s absolutely reeking of something’s not adding up. 

11 minutes ago, The_Dark_Knight said:

Well, he's starting the match, lets see if he plays the full 90 mins.

Good luck you didn't bet.

 

2 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

Full thing stinks.

 

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1 minute ago, ElChris04 said:

If your Steve Clarke and right now finding out Tierney is in tonight’s match day europa league line up, what would you proceed to do next? Contact arsenal? Or Kieran Tierney himself? I feel it’s definitely needing addressing big time as it’s absolutely reeking of something’s not adding up. 

 

 

Very good question.

If I knew that he'd play tonight (Some people only give credence to "REAL" managers. According to some people the opinions of fans don't count because we aren't "REAL".) then I'd be willing to bet that Clarke did.

One thing I am sure of, though, Tierney's running out of good will in this place. There's more people against him, than there is for him.

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1 hour ago, AndyDD said:

Honestly, take the whole concept of commitment to 'The Cause' out of it and we are talking about a guy who loves playing football and has missed so much of it over the last few years. 

I just don't find it realistic to imagine him not wanting to play if for no other reason than because he wants to make up for lost time and get as much football in as he can. He'll be chomping at the bit to play football, period. 

I half expect the cunt to be scouting about London looking for games of 5s to get involved in. 

Why would you take commitment and cause out of it? Thats exactly what International football  is. 

If he wants to play more football, he would likely do that in Cyprus and at Hampden if he made himself available.

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36 minutes ago, The_Dark_Knight said:

He's been back 10 days longer than Scott McKenna, and yet you don't see Aberdeen "ask" the SFA to not include their captain, so the "just back from injury, the poor wee soul" doesn't wash.

£25m? EPL clubs pay that annually on toilet paper. It's peanuts for EPL clubs. Manchester United paid double that for Fred and he's a back-up player.

In this day and age players dictate to clubs, not the other way around. If Kieran Tierney wanted to play for Scotland for the upcoming matches, he'd be here. It really is as simple and clear-cut as that. In your words, Arsenal paid £25m for him, do you honestly think they'd punish Tierney's insubordination by not picking him?

I remember whilst Darren Fletcher was suffering from his illness, he drove up to Scotland to play in an away match against Malta, dropping every 30 minutes because of his illness. That's dedication. Darren Fletcher played through life-altering illness for Scotland. Tierney is fit enough to be in 7 match squads (playing in 4) for his club but he isn't well enough to come up to Scotland and be with his team-mates, even to show encouragement?

Aren't you the alleged "hard taskmaster"? Didn't you lambast Scott McTominay for not bursting a lung trying to get back when he made a mistake against Norwich? (I think it was Norwich) Strange inconsistency.

And Tierney admitted himself that he played through injury, on many occasions, for Celtic.

Mate, you're the one who said "REAL" manager. I'm still not sure what that means, as you haven't explained. Maybe you can elaborate.

Do you think I'm using this opportunity as a bat to whack him with? No. I'm using the previous 3 years.

The frequency that he pulls out of Scotland squads is vast. As I said, McTominay has played as many matches for Scotland that Tierney has in 3.

And yes, you're an apologist. You're making excuses for Arsenal, Tierney and Clarke.

Correct, Aberdeen didn't ask. My preference would have been for the SFA to say 'no' to Arsenal's request, but without having all the facts I’m going to avoid being categorical about it and insist I somehow know the ins and outs of any conversation that may or may not have taken place. Also, Joe Lewis is the captain of Aberdeen, Not McKenna. 

As with most things, I do not think it is as clear cut as that. It is not in all ways and every way the case that the club dictates to the player, nor is it in all ways and every way the case that the player dictates to the club. All sorts of other factors can be involved to varying degrees.  Do I think they would punish him? I have no idea. Maybe. Do I think they would have their medical staff emphasise to their young, keen-for-football player who has seen his recent career ravaged by injury after injury, that it is better for his overall long term fitness not to go this time as they have requested, on their professional medical assessment? Yeah, I think they probably would. 

Yup, Darren Fletcher showed incredible commitment to playing for Scotland. More than Tierney or any of the current squad. More than any other player in his own time, as well, far as I can think. Does that mean all of them are to be chastised? I wouldn't be as extreme as that. Fletcher is to be commended for going above and beyond and then some. His commitment was exemplary. I don't think it reasonable to only call folk up if we know for a fact that they meet the Darren Fletcher commitment test. If we did, god knows how we'd get a team together at all. Unless you are advocating that we do take that stance, I fail to see the relevance. 

His club requested it. That is what we have been told. That is the information. That is the fact, as far as we can possibly know then. You have no more proof that the player wouldn't rather be there than I have proof that he does. You have no cause to be so categorical in your assessment of his interest to play international football. 

I've never pronounced myself 'The Hard Taskmaster'. My username is my name, abbreviated for convenience. I think I said something like 'maybe I’m just a hard taskmaster' or something like that. I did make that criticism of Mctominay, aye. I also said at that same time that he is a good player who looks like he will be excellent and is one of our best players already. I also said he was by all I had heard and seen overall very good in the game. My criticism was balanced and contextualised. I am critical of Tierney for not forcing Arsenal's hand, just like I’m critical of the SFA for not denying the request. I so however except that there may be good reasons for these that we have not been privy to. Then again, there may not. Balanced and contextualised. 

No, no, crossed wires here. I replied to your post. My reply starts saying 'my my'. In that, i poke fun at your repeated use of the term real manager in the post I am quoting. I put the 'real' in capitals to point to send up the emphasis I felt you were putting on it in your post. I was amused by what you could possibly mean, in what seemed to be a suggestion that Clarke was not a real manager. That was the inference I drew from your post and I found it both quite amusing and somewhat baffling. 

Like I say, I don't think there are any real grounds for being as categorical about the thoughts, feelings, beliefs and interests of human beings I’ve never met are. I'm certainly not of the view that Tierney should henceforth be banned from playing for Scotland, nor am I of the view that Clarke is not a real, or even REAL, manager. I do think Arsenal are likely to be trying to look after what they see as an investment they have not had much out of yet, but I do not for a second approve of it; it annoys me and I am disappointed he isn't in the squad. If thinking there are likely reasons, which may or may not be reasonable, and ruminating as to what they might be, is making excuses, well, I've misunderstood the term. I wish Tierney was as committed as Fletcher was. I wish that of every Scotland player, past present and future. In no way do I approve of Arsenal making this request and I don't approve of the SFA and/or Clarke accepting it. I also don’t approve of Tierney not telling them to fuck off and come anyway. That’s what I’d do. But I’m not going to condemn him for that. I also do accept the SFA and/or Clarke may have a logic underpinning their acceptance of the request, reasons for granting it, which we are unaware of, though. I cannot assess those reasons unless and until they are made plain, which they likely never will be. 

As I said, we are talking about a guy who presumably loves playing football and has missed so much of it over the last few years.

I just don't find it realistic to imagine him not wanting to play if for no other reason than because he wants to make up for lost time and get as much football in as he can. He'll be chomping at the bit to play football, period.

I half expect the cunt to be scouting about London looking for games of 5s to get involved in.

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11 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

Why would you take commitment and cause out of it? Thats exactly what International football  is. 

If he wants to play more football, he would likely do that in Cyprus and at Hampden if he made himself available.

Well, my point is, if we assume that he could take or leave playing for Scotland as a concept, and seen international football as nothing more than a way to further his career or what have we (explaining his previous appearances, broken jaw and all) I would still expect him to want to play these games because he'll be champing at the bit to get as much football as he can. 

If the reality is that Tierney actively doesn't want to play in these two games,. I'd be surprised, because he seems to love playing and has been on record at how frustrating it has been for him not to play much over the last, what, 2 - 3 years. 

It does look bad when he starts tonight, though, no question. It's odd, was it Matt Phillips who wasn't available last time because he was scheduled for an op over the break? So he was fit to play the games before it for his club but was booked in for treatment during the course of the international break and therefore knew ahead of time that he could not feature? 

I think we'd all be more willing to accept that sort of thing than the 'ongoing issue' that does on the face of it seem to weirdly only keep him out of these two Scotland games. 

Is it possible he plays tonight then won't play weekend because they are trying to 'manage' him through the immediate period? 

Clarity really would have spared us a hell of a lot of hand wringing. Not to mention keep the post rate down hahaha. 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, AndyDD said:

Correct, Aberdeen didn't ask. My preference would have been for the SFA to say 'no' to Arsenal's request, but without having all the facts I’m going to avoid being categorical about it and insist I somehow know the ins and outs of any conversation that may or may not have taken place. Also, Joe Lewis is the captain of Aberdeen, Not McKenna. 

OK. I'll retract that comment, how do we know that Aberdeen didn't ask the SFA to exclude McKenna? If they had, do you think McKenna would be cool with that?

Joe Lewis? Fair enough. I don't watch the SPL.

11 minutes ago, AndyDD said:

As with most things, I do not think it is as clear cut as that. It is not in all ways and every way the case that the club dictates to the player, nor is it in all ways and every way the case that the player dictates to the club. All sorts of other factors can be involved to varying degrees.  Do I think they would punish him? I have no idea. Maybe. Do I think they would have their medical staff emphasise to their young, keen-for-football player who has seen his recent career ravaged by injury after injury, that it is better for his overall long term fitness not to go this time as they have requested, on their professional medical assessment? Yeah, I think they probably would. 

I'm not sure why you're dragging this out and pontificating.

The issue is a clear one. Over the previous three years, Kieran Tierney has pulled out of the vast majority of Scotland squads. I'm not sure whether you think I'm making this up or not. It's as clear as day. For Celtic, he played on multiple occasions with injury and lingering injury, and yet for Scotland he doesn't. Not that I'm asking him to play through injury for us, but I think it's pretty apparent that he wouldn't, given the choice. Players like Billy Bremner and Dave Mackay would've played for Scotland with a broken leg.

What would Brenmner and Mackay make of Kieran Tierney? They'd probably pat him on the head and ask him what time's his bed time.

You can keep defending him all you like. Not many people will.

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1 hour ago, ElChris04 said:

 

 Kieran Tierney starting for arsenal. fit enough to play in the Europa league but not fit enough to play for Scotland. this confirming what a lot of us are thinking? Arsenal really have taking the piss with Clarke. 
 

Absolute shambles. 

Who's to say Tierney wanted arsenal to say that on his behalf

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5 minutes ago, The_Dark_Knight said:

OK. I'll retract that comment, how do we know that Aberdeen didn't ask the SFA to exclude McKenna? If they had, do you think McKenna would be cool with that?

Joe Lewis? Fair enough. I don't watch the SPL.

I'm not sure why you're dragging this out and pontificating.

The issue is a clear one. Over the previous three years, Kieran Tierney has pulled out of the vast majority of Scotland squads. I'm not sure whether you think I'm making this up or not. It's as clear as day. For Celtic, he played on multiple occasions with injury and lingering injury, and yet for Scotland he doesn't. Not that I'm asking him to play through injury for us, but I think it's pretty apparent that he wouldn't, given the choice. Players like Billy Bremner and Dave Mackay would've played for Scotland with a broken leg.

What would Brenmner and Mackay make of Kieran Tierney? They'd probably pat him on the head and ask him what time's his bed time.

You can keep defending him all you like. Not many people will.

😀😀 Pot and kettle spring to mind

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30 minutes ago, AndyDD said:

Well, my point is, if we assume that he could take or leave playing for Scotland as a concept, and seen international football as nothing more than a way to further his career or what have we (explaining his previous appearances, broken jaw and all) I would still expect him to want to play these games because he'll be champing at the bit to get as much football as he can. 

If the reality is that Tierney actively doesn't want to play in these two games,. I'd be surprised, because he seems to love playing and has been on record at how frustrating it has been for him not to play much over the last, what, 2 - 3 years. 

It does look bad when he starts tonight, though, no question. It's odd, was it Matt Phillips who wasn't available last time because he was scheduled for an op over the break? So he was fit to play the games before it for his club but was booked in for treatment during the course of the international break and therefore knew ahead of time that he could not feature? 

I think we'd all be more willing to accept that sort of thing than the 'ongoing issue' that does on the face of it seem to weirdly only keep him out of these two Scotland games. 

Is it possible he plays tonight then won't play weekend because they are trying to 'manage' him through the immediate period? 

Clarity really would have spared us a hell of a lot of hand wringing. Not to mention keep the post rate down hahaha. 

 

 

Last time they were managing him through the immediate period, theres no excuse this time.  He is playing from the start in both the EL and EPL for Arsenal, we have players like Naismith and Mckenna just back from injury but both would run through walls for scotland. 

It is possible he may not play at the weekend but again that would be strange considering he started for Arsenal against CP last week and again tonight in the EL. 

There comes a point when excuses need to stop, that time is now. Tierney is fit, thats not even up for debate anymore. He should be going to Cyprus 

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I've believed for a while that Tierney would jack in international football before 30, I now believe he'll do it a lot sooner.

How the fuck Arsenal can keep their faces straight by telling the SFA not to call him and then the very next day start him, I don't know

Edited by Bobby Russell's Lovechild
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6 minutes ago, Bobby Russell's Lovechild said:

I've believed for a while that Tierney would jack in international football before 30 for a while now. I now believe he'll do it a lot sooner.

How the fuck Arsenal can keep their faces straight by telling the SFA not to call him and then the very next day start him, I don't know

Yeah. I was thinking that last night.

I think he'll Jack International football in when he's 25.

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1 hour ago, The_Dark_Knight said:

Well, he's starting the match, lets see if he plays the full 90 mins.

Good luck you didn't bet.

I admit I got this one wrong.

He might not play the full 90 but I was fully expecting them to play Kolasanic this match and Tierney at the weekend v Leicester. I thought Tierney would play one from two as Arsenal continued to "manage" him back to fitness but if he plays both then they are definitely at it. I really did think the league game was the more important and thats what he would start. And I was one who defended the decision in October as didn't think that was the right time to call him back up. 

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1 hour ago, sbcmfc said:

It certainly adds fuel to the theory that he can take or leave playing for Scotland.

Can’t discount their being genuine reasons for him sitting this out, but you’d have to presume he has some say in this.

Awkward one for the SFA, as they don’t want to damage any relationship with the player or club, but looking at Tierney and several others, is it time we got a bit tougher?

I think we, as fans, over estimate the importance of international football to players. I am sure there are a few who are as passionate about it as most fans are but I think for a lot its definitely a take it or leave it situation. Especially if its for a struggling nation with little to no chance of success. 

Peter Grant put a good angle on it on a podcast I listened to recently. International football used to be a game on a Wednesday night where you maybe join the squad Monday or Tuesday and you are home probably Thursday morning latest. Now you are away from home, family, your usual set up of training etc for 10 days or more at a time. Again, no matter what we as fans think, that probably doesn't hold a lot of appeal for many players. Who could use that time to rest up that tweak or twinge or could nip off for a break with the wife/kids.

I don't think getting tougher will do anything bar drive those who find it less appealing into permanent international retirement. The national FA's are meant to have the power to veto players playing after missing international games but how many of them, not just Scotland, actually enforce it? Virtually none that I can think of. The players and clubs have the power here.

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31 minutes ago, Dalgety Bay TA said:

 

Peter Grant put a good angle on it on a podcast I listened to recently. International football used to be a game on a Wednesday night where you maybe join the squad Monday or Tuesday and you are home probably Thursday morning latest. Now you are away from home, family, your usual set up of training etc for 10 days or more at a time. Again, no matter what we as fans think, that probably doesn't hold a lot of appeal for many players. Who could use that time to rest up that tweak or twinge or could nip off for a break with the wife/kids.

.

Gareth Bale 81 Caps (Age 30)

Ronaldo 162 Caps. (Age 34)

Messi 136 Caps (age 32)

Steven Davis 113 Caps (Age 34)

The time away from their family doesn't appear to affect them much and 3 of those have more money than you could ever spend.

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