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Kieran Tierney's lack of commitment towards Scotland


The_Dark_Knight

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2 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

I suggest you re read my post, nobody thinks these players play for Barcelona etc like you claimed. 

Aye okay. I’m more interested what the 3 are able to do for us as part of a team. 

People say that our midfield is good. It's not good. Was it good against Kazakhstan? Against Israel? About Cluj?

Our midfield may be better than our defence, but that doesn't mean it's good. Our defence is poor and our midfield is average.

McTominay will have to carry his central partners, and I'm afraid he'll never be good enough to do that. No player would.

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1 minute ago, The_Dark_Knight said:

People say that our midfield is good. It's not good. Was it good against Kazakhstan? Against Israel? About Cluj?

Our midfield may be better than our defence, but that doesn't mean it's good. Our defence is poor and our midfield is average.

McTominay will have to carry his central partners, and I'm afraid he'll never be good enough to do that. No player would.

So not a midfield to play for Barcelona etc. cheers for clearing that up. 

Guess we’ll find out if and when he becomes a regular starter (as he should)

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2 minutes ago, aaid said:

That's probably in the same trophy cabinet that Arsene Wenger keeps his "4th pace in the Premiership qualification for the Champions League" medals.

Leicester City seemed to be very keen to sign Callum McGregor the other week 

4th in the Premiership is still better than winning a trophy in Scotland for Celtic.

That doesn't mean much to me. What's Leicester going to win? (Yes, they won the EPL a few years ago)

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Just now, The_Dark_Knight said:

4th in the Premiership is still better than winning a trophy in Scotland for Celtic.

That doesn't mean much to me. What's Leicester going to win? (Yes, they won the EPL a few years ago)

They've been a lot more successful in recent years than Man Utd have though. 

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39 minutes ago, aaid said:

They've been a lot more successful in recent years than Man Utd have though. 

Success is relative. As far as concerned Celtic are buying their trophies and they're playing against teams that don't have folding money.

Piece by piece OGS is improving the team. The midfield is still a couple mess. They're still a while off from challenging Man City and Liverpool. 

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7 hours ago, The_Dark_Knight said:

Success is relative. As far as concerned Celtic are buying their trophies and they're playing against teams that don't have folding money.

Piece by piece OGS is improving the team. The midfield is still a couple mess. They're still a while off from challenging Man City and Liverpool. 

Yip, OGS really improved things, taking them from sixth place when Mourinho was sacked to where exactly, that's right sixth place.  

It seems that the only criteria for you judging McTominay as being better than all the players who play in the SPFL is that he plays for Man Ut and so he must be good. 

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On ‎8‎/‎17‎/‎2019 at 9:25 PM, vanderark14 said:

😂😂😂😂😂

This is comedy gold. Chripper is an absolute beaut. A seriously deranged person. 

It Funny as fuck watching it get so wound up about being right, to the point where when its proved wrong it keeps repeating its opinions as fact.

Absolutely magic reading 😂😂

He genuinely makes Ramy and Rolling Hills come across as fairly level people.

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2 hours ago, aaid said:

Yip, OGS really improved things, taking them from sixth place when Mourinho was sacked to where exactly, that's right sixth place.  

It seems that the only criteria for you judging McTominay as being better than all the players who play in the SPFL is that he plays for Man Ut and so he must be good. 

Yes, that's exactly what United fans fans said when Ferguson was appointed manager. "From three fourth place finishes he 'improves us' by managing to finish eleventh and then an eleventh and thirteen placed finish in the subsequent three years".

Yes. That Ferguson chap didn't do very much In the management biz. I wonder what happened to him.

Truth is, you can't always see improvement or when a foundation has been laid. Should I really have to say that? 

Want me to tell you the external improvements? Valencia has been the first choice right back for about three or four years now. Wan-Bissaka is a massive upgrade, at both ends of the park. Maguire is the leader that they've been lacking at the back since the days of Vidic. Maguire and Lindlof have the potential of being a brilliant defensive partnership.

That, to me, is progress.

Well, isn't that how we judge every single player on the planet? Take Austria for example. David Alaba is the only Austrian to play for Bayern Munich because he's the best Austrian player. He isn't the best Austrian player solely because he plays for Bayern Munich, he's the best Austrian player because he's the best Austrian player.

I don't get your point. It's like saying " You only think Andy Robertson is better than Greg Taylor because he's at Liverpool". No, Andy Robertson is better than Greg Taylor isn't because he's with Livepool. Robertson is better than Taylor because Robertson is better than Taylor.

Have you ever watched McTominay? How about his man of the match displays home to Barcelona or away to PSG? 

Never mind that, though, as Christie scoring three against St Johnstone is much more impressive. Goals win you games, you know.

Edited by The_Dark_Knight
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44 minutes ago, The_Dark_Knight said:

Yes, that's exactly what United fans fans said when Ferguson was appointed manager. "From three fourth place finishes he 'improves us' by managing to finish eleventh and then an eleventh and thirteen placed finish in the subsequent three years".

Yes. That Ferguson chap didn't do very much In the management biz. I wonder what happened to him.

Truth is, you can't always see improvement or when a foundation has been laid. Should I really have to say that? 

Want me to tell you the external improvements? Valencia has been the first choice right back for about three or four years now. Wan-Bissaka is a massive upgrade, at both ends of the park. Maguire is the leader that they've been lacking at the back since the days of Vidic. Maguire and Lindlof have the potential of being a brilliant defensive partnership.

That, to me, is progress.

Well, isn't that how we judge every single player on the planet? Take Austria for example. David Alaba is the only Austrian to play for Bayern Munich because he's the best Austrian player. He isn't the best Austrian player solely because he plays for Bayern Munich, he's the best Austrian player because he's the best Austrian player.

I don't get your point. It's like saying " You only think Andy Robertson is better than Greg Taylor because he's at Liverpool". No, Andy Robertson is better than Greg Taylor isn't because he's with Livepool. Robertson is better than Taylor because Robertson is better than Taylor.

Have you ever watched McTominay? How about his man of the match displays home to Barcelona or away to PSG? 

Never mind that, though, as Christie scoring three against St Johnstone is much more impressive. Goals win you games, you know.

I don't have much interest in Man United so funnily enough I don't watch them slavishly.  MOM, against Barcelona,didn't they lose both legs?  I had to look that up, see my previous comment 

Whenever,  I've seen him play, odd occassions for Man Utd or for Scotland - which I am interested in -  he's looked okay, nothing more than that, I'm happy he's Scottish, he could turn out to be a better player than his is now, let's hope so.  He's certainly never struck me as the guy we should be building our team around for the next 10 years   He certainly doesn't strike me as being as exciting a prospect as Darren Fletcher was at the same point in his career, who remember played for Scotland *before* he'd started a league game for his club.

I think we've got better players than he is now, maybe in future he'll be better they'll.

Your single argument seems to be that because he plays for Man Utd he must be good. I could give you a long list of players who came through the ranks at Man Utd played for a few years and then whose careers went into a slow decline.   

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2 hours ago, aaid said:

I don't have much interest in Man United so funnily enough I don't watch them slavishly.  MOM, against Barcelona,didn't they lose both legs?  I had to look that up, see my previous comment 

Whenever,  I've seen him play, odd occassions for Man Utd or for Scotland - which I am interested in -  he's looked okay, nothing more than that, I'm happy he's Scottish, he could turn out to be a better player than his is now, let's hope so.  He's certainly never struck me as the guy we should be building our team around for the next 10 years   He certainly doesn't strike me as being as exciting a prospect as Darren Fletcher was at the same point in his career, who remember played for Scotland *before* he'd started a league game for his club.

I think we've got better players than he is now, maybe in future he'll be better they'll.

Your single argument seems to be that because he plays for Man Utd he must be good. I could give you a long list of players who came through the ranks at Man Utd played for a few years and then whose careers went into a slow decline.   

If you haven't got much interest in Manchester United then why say they haven't made progress? But yes, as I said, and I outlined the reasons, Manchester United have made slow and steady progress under OGS. The midfield and attack is a bit of a mess, but he's doing the sensible thing by sorting out the defence.

Yes, Barcelona won both legs, but that doesn't do justice to McTominay's performance against them at Old Trafford.

As for the Darren Fletcher comparison. It took him a while to win over the United fans and he achieved it when he was 24/25 years old. McTominay received the same sort of abuse and grumbles whenever he was on the team-sheet as Darren Fletcher, but McTominay managed to win over most of the doubters in a far shorter space of time. I suppose you could say it was harder for Fletcher because United had a better midfield at the time. However, if SAF was still the manager he's adore McTominay as he's just an old school footballer that just wants to play, learn and get better. I remember watching Fletcher play for the Scotland schoolboys and making his United debut, etc, and I can say that Scott McTominay has the potential to be a better player but only if his rate of progression sustains. In his prime (before the illness) Darren Fletcher was the heir to Roy Keane's throne. It's just a shame that illness befell Fletcher as he's one of my all-time favourite players.

As I've said, this Manchester United midfield is a complete and utter mess. The only thing holding it together is McTominay and Pogba. Pereira and Lingard are hopeless, Mata and Matic are playing out their careers and kids like Gomes and Chong are really ready to make the step up. United have a lot of problems in midfield. But I'll guarantee you, if McGregor, McLean, Christie, etc, were at Manchester United, they wouldn't even make the bench.

Edited by The_Dark_Knight
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16 minutes ago, The_Dark_Knight said:

If you haven't got much interest in Manchester United then why say they haven't made progress? But yes, as I said, and I outlined the reasons, Manchester United have made slow and steady progress under OGS. The midfield and attack is a bit of a mess, but he's doing the sensible thing by sorting out the defence.

Yes, Barcelona won both legs, but that doesn't do justice to McTominay's performance against them at Old Trafford.

As for the Darren Fletcher comparison. It took him a while to win over the United fans and he achieved it when he was 24/25 years old. McTominay received the same sort of abuse and grumbles whenever he was on the team-sheet as Darren Fletcher, but McTominay managed to win over most of the doubters in a far shorter space of time. I suppose you could say it was harder for Fletcher because United had a better midfield at the time. However, if SAF was still the manager he's adore McTominay as he's just an old school footballer that just wants to play, learn and get better. I remember watching Fletcher play for the Scotland schoolboys and making his United debut, etc, and I can say that Scott McTominay has the potential to be a better player but only if his rate of progression sustains. In his prime (before the illness) Darren Fletcher was the heir to Roy Keane's throne. It's just a shame that illness befell Fletcher as he's one of my all-time favourite players.

As I've said, this Manchester United midfield is a complete and utter mess. The only thing holding it together is McTominay and Pogba. Pereira and Lingard are hopeless, Mata and Matic are playing out their careers and kids like Gomes and Chong are NOT really ready to make the step up. United have a lot of problems in midfield. But I'll guarantee you, if McGregor, McLean, Christie, etc, were at Manchester United, they wouldn't even make the bench.

*Edited

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45 minutes ago, The_Dark_Knight said:

If you haven't got much interest in Manchester United then why say they haven't made progress? 

Because they demonstrably haven't.   Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't OGS have the worst win rate of any Man Utd manager?

Could well turn out to be a Neil Lennon style appointment.
 

Quote

As for the Darren Fletcher comparison. It took him a while to win over the United fans and he achieved it when he was 24/25 years old. McTominay received the same sort of abuse and grumbles whenever he was on the team-sheet as Darren Fletcher, but McTominay managed to win over most of the doubters in a far shorter space of time. I suppose you could say it was harder for Fletcher because United had a better midfield at the time. However, if SAF was still the manager he's adore McTominay as he's just an old school footballer that just wants to play, learn and get better. I remember watching Fletcher play for the Scotland schoolboys and making his United debut, etc, and I can say that Scott McTominay has the potential to be a better player but only if his rate of progression sustains. In his prime (before the illness) Darren Fletcher was the heir to Roy Keane's throne. It's just a shame that illness befell Fletcher as he's one of my all-time favourite players.

So maybe the fact that the Man Utd fans have taken to McTominay sooner than they took to Fletcher says more about the state of the club when they were introduced to the first team and the fickleness of football fans than the relative merits of the two players.
 

Quote

As I've said, this Manchester United midfield is a complete and utter mess. The only thing holding it together is McTominay and Pogba. Pereira and Lingard are hopeless, Mata and Matic are playing out their careers and kids like Gomes and Chong are really ready to make the step up. 

Progress though.

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3 minutes ago, aaid said:

Because they demonstrably haven't.   Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't OGS have the worst win rate of any Man Utd manager?

Yes. Because it's perfectly acceptable to judge a manager before he even has a full season under his belt. This season will be OGS's first full season at the helm. And I'll go back to SAF. If the fans got their wish, and Ferguson was judged on stats, he would've been gone after his second season.

Stats can be twisted. Moyes has a better win ratio at United than Van Gaal. Means nothing.

6 minutes ago, aaid said:

So maybe the fact that the Man Utd fans have taken to McTominay sooner than they took to Fletcher says more about the state of the club when they were introduced to the first team and the fickleness of football fans than the relative merits of the two players.

It's that what I just said? :P

Regardless, if McTominay continues to improve the rate that he has been doing he'll end up as captain of Man United.

And I'll reiterate what I said. This United midfield is a hot mess, but McGregor, McLean, Christie couldn't touch it. Theoretical? Yes. But look at the last "wonderkid" that left Celtic to go to Man United. A certain Liam Miller. He was about the same standard as the midfielders that I listed above.

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30 minutes ago, The_Dark_Knight said:

And I'll reiterate what I said. This United midfield is a hot mess, but McGregor, McLean, Christie couldn't touch it. Theoretical? Yes. But look at the last "wonderkid" that left Celtic to go to Man United. A certain Liam Miller. He was about the same standard as the midfielders that I listed above.

Exactly it's all theoretical. So as much as people can't say McGregor, Christie et al would be brilliant at Man Utd, you can't say that they wouldn't. We'll just need to keep our fingers crossed that they are given a chance at the highest level and take it. Then we'll have the observational data to back up our theories.

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1 hour ago, mrniaboc said:

Exactly it's all theoretical. So as much as people can't say McGregor, Christie et al would be brilliant at Man Utd, you can't say that they wouldn't. We'll just need to keep our fingers crossed that they are given a chance at the highest level and take it. Then we'll have the observational data to back up our theories.

It's only theoretical because Man United (or a club of their standing) wouldn't be interested in the likes of McGregor or Christie.

Maybe I can't say that McGregor or Christie, etc, wouldn't be brilliant at Man United, but the fact that United aren't interested in those players would tell you that they think that that those players wouldn't be brilliant at their club. ;)

Let's be real here, if our midfielders were good enough for a top club we'd already know about it, what with the club buying them and all. Yes, there was talk about John McGinn being liked to United. But that was all agent talk. The agent clearly done his job because McGinn got a new 5 year contract and a wage rise out of it. Over the summer United were linked to Bruno Fernandes, but pulled the plug because they questioned his ball retention skills.... which pretty much makes a mockery of the whole McGinn/United link... as McGinn isn't a very good passer.

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1 hour ago, The_Dark_Knight said:

It's only theoretical because Man United (or a club of their standing) wouldn't be interested in the likes of McGregor or Christie.

Maybe I can't say that McGregor or Christie, etc, wouldn't be brilliant at Man United, but the fact that United aren't interested in those players would tell you that they think that that those players wouldn't be brilliant at their club. ;)

Let's be real here, if our midfielders were good enough for a top club we'd already know about it, what with the club buying them and all. Yes, there was talk about John McGinn being liked to United. But that was all agent talk. The agent clearly done his job because McGinn got a new 5 year contract and a wage rise out of it. Over the summer United were linked to Bruno Fernandes, but pulled the plug because they questioned his ball retention skills.... which pretty much makes a mockery of the whole McGinn/United link... as McGinn isn't a very good passer.

Here's the thing though. Would Man Utd buy McTominay though?  I suspect they probably wouldn't.

As for McGinn not being a good passer, Bielsa describes him as the washing machine, when you give him the ball it come back clean. 

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6 minutes ago, aaid said:

Here's the thing though. Would Man Utd buy McTominay though?  I suspect they probably wouldn't.

As for McGinn not being a good passer, Bielsa describes him as the washing machine, when you give him the ball it come back clean. 

Good question, actually. A lot of United fans were saying that very thing last season. If they're going to buy Longstaff, which I think they will eventually, then yes, there's definitely a good chance that they'd buy McTominay if he were playing elsewhere. In my opinion he's already as good as Henderson and Milner and look how well those players did. OGS is trying to build a British core, what with the purchases of Wan-Bissaka and Maguire, so it's definitely conceivable that he'd buy McTominay.

Did Bielsa miss the Belgium match? ;) McGinn is fine with little 5 yard passes but more than that and he struggles. His main strengths are getting the ball and driving forward, which is why he should be playing on the shoulder of the striker(s), kinda like what Benitez does with Steven Gerrard. He did so because Gerrard emptied the midfield too frequently.

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23 hours ago, The_Dark_Knight said:

People say that our midfield is good. It's not good. Was it good against Kazakhstan? Against Israel? About Cluj?

Our midfield may be better than our defence, but that doesn't mean it's good. Our defence is poor and our midfield is average.

McTominay will have to carry his central partners, and I'm afraid he'll never be good enough to do that. No player would.

When did Scotland play Cluj?

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11 hours ago, ParisInAKilt said:

This McTominay worship will come back to haunt you Chripper 

If you want ingredients:

1) supposedly all teams outside the top 6 in the EPL (including Wolves) are average and not places we should be excited about Scots playing. 

2) Celtic losing to Cluj is supposedly conclusive proof that Callum McGregor is an average player. 

3) Scot McTominay is supposedly the best Scottish player around right now (bar possibly Robbo?) 

4) Man Utd just failed to beat Wolves on the EPL with McTominay playing the full match. 

Maybe if a player's team doesn't win it doesn't always mean that player isn't any good? Perhaps the EPL is strong below the top 6? I'm too lazy to bake the full cake. Have fun! 

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