Dapo Mabude Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 3 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said: You might not see the summer of 2020 if you 1) don't sell somebody and 2) fail to qualify out the EL Group though. The accounts effectively say that. £10m is only to plug a hole, it's not a fix. Clubs will do to Rangers exactly as they've done to others over the years, lowball you as they know you are skint. If Celtic win the cup and are say 5 or 6 points ahead by the break (which I think they will be based on fixtures) then I think Rangers will have their hand forced re Morelos. I honestly can't believe Rangers are losing so much money, so soon after the events of 2012. Folk said it years ago and I laughed it off trying to stop 10IAR could literally kill them as they are going to need to strengthen again in January which is something they cannot afford, as Celtic sure as hell will spend money. Yeah I think you're getting overexcited. The board have already committed to cover at least 50% of that plus if we make EL next round then there is less to cover. 3 minutes ago, AndyDD said: I think waiting until the Summer might actually hurt the price tag, unless the funding comes in from other sources before then. If it doesn't, then there will suddenly be a pressing need to sell him and clubs will use that to their advantage. The price tag could be hurt or be basically the same or increase. It could easily increase if his goalscoring form, at this rate, continues and he continues to score against strong teams in Euro.e Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyDD Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 1 minute ago, Dapo Mabude said: The price tag could be hurt or be basically the same or increase. It could easily increase if his goalscoring form, at this rate, continues and he continues to score against strong teams in Euro.e See, I think his value will remain much the same, 15-22 Million, no matter what his form is like.I think his value is more or less settled unless and until he gets goals against a big european name in a knockout stage. But that's looking purely at the player and ignoring the context, which no bidding club will do. Any club looking to get Morelos will look at the standing of the league (relatively lowly), will look at the desire of the player to leave(by all accounts quite high) and will look at the strength of the selling club. Sadly, these factors being where they are will play a significant role in their thinking and will have an impact on the fee offered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan_McCole Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 42 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said: I honestly can't believe Rangers are losing so much money, so soon after the events of 2012. Folk said it years ago and I laughed it off trying to stop 10IAR could literally kill them as they are going to need to strengthen again in January which is something they cannot afford, as Celtic sure as hell will spend money. Even if they do miraculously win the league, what is the game plan after that? Still absolutely effing skint and with less chance than Celtic to qualify for the Champions League. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dapo Mabude Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 1 minute ago, Tartan_McCole said: Even if they do miraculously win the league, what is the game plan after that? Still absolutely effing skint and with less chance than Celtic to qualify for the Champions League. "Miraculously" - we are currently neck and neck and the bookies have Rangers at 7/4 to win the title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan_McCole Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 7 minutes ago, Dapo Mabude said: "Miraculously" - we are currently neck and neck and the bookies have Rangers at 7/4 to win the title. That's brilliant to hear. Hopefully those odds cause a lot of daft Rangers fans to lose big sums of money. Anything else to add, or was that the only piece of the post that perked your interest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbcmfc Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 (edited) The only reason Rangers have any chance of winning the league, is that it only requires one other team to implode. I can’t see that happening as things stand. Gambling on European group stages is a very risky strategy. Rangers have probably overachieved in reaching the group stages 2 years running, thanks to some good performances and reasonably favourable draws. Edited November 5, 2019 by sbcmfc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dapo Mabude Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 3 minutes ago, sbcmfc said: The only reason Rangers have any chance of winning the league, is that it only requires one other team to implode. I can’t see that happening as things stand. Or we get better as we clearly have been. Your post doesn't really make any sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbcmfc Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Dapo Mabude said: Or we get better as we clearly have been. Your post doesn't really make any sense. Celtic are too far ahead for Rangers to bridge the gap, without either throwing lots of money they don’t have at it, or Celtic imploding. They have closed the gap considerably, by throwing money they don’t have at it, but it’s unsustainable. The only factor in their favour is that it’s only Celtic they are competing with domestically, so would only take one team imploding to open the door. Edited November 5, 2019 by sbcmfc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dapo Mabude Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 32 minutes ago, sbcmfc said: They have closed the gap considerably, by throwing money they don’t have at it, but it’s unsustainable. Well that's not even close to true. Our wage bill is only 60% or so of turnover. We could very easily break even or even make a profit - just by sticking with the squad we already have that is currently neck and neck with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbcmfc Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 18 minutes ago, Dapo Mabude said: Well that's not even close to true. Our wage bill is only 60% or so of turnover. We could very easily break even or even make a profit - just by sticking with the squad we already have that is currently neck and neck with them. They’ve spent £10million in transfer fees since their last loss. (Helander, Kent, etc.) So surely there’s a hole to be plugged? They lost £11 million last season without substantial transfer fees (that I can remember?) that’s with europa league groups etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyDD Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 21 minutes ago, Dapo Mabude said: Well that's not even close to true. Our wage bill is only 60% or so of turnover. We could very easily break even or even make a profit - just by sticking with the squad we already have that is currently neck and neck with them. That's it in a nutshell, for me. Given all the recent history of financial frailty and the speed with which things can implode, why is it not a worry that Rangers, as it stands, are so deeply in the hole? The bolded part of your comment reflects a shrugging, doesn't really matter, it'll be alright on the night attitude to the financial health of the club. It might be that you don't actually have that They are competing with a team that is turning a substantial profit, whilst failing even to break even as things stand. And not by a small margin. They are, in effect, literally spending money they don't have to carry on as they are, going by the recent financial report. Why do Rangers need another £10Million to see them through? How is that their current reality? Mismanagement, thy name is King. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dapo Mabude Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 11 minutes ago, sbcmfc said: They’ve spent £10million in transfer fees since their last loss. (Helander, Kent, etc.) So surely there’s a hole to be plugged? They lost £11 million last season without substantial transfer fees (that I can remember?) that’s with europa league groups etc. We spent £6m net on fees that season. 2 minutes ago, AndyDD said: That's it in a nutshell, for me. Given all the recent history of financial frailty and the speed with which things can implode, why is it not a worry that Rangers, as it stands, are so deeply in the hole? The bolded part of your comment reflects a shrugging, doesn't really matter, it'll be alright on the night attitude to the financial health of the club. It might be that you don't actually have that They are competing with a team that is turning a substantial profit, whilst failing even to break even as things stand. And not by a small margin. They are, in effect, literally spending money they don't have to carry on as they are, going by the recent financial report. Why do Rangers need another £10Million to see them through? How is that their current reality? Mismanagement, thy name is King. It's not mismanagement at all. It's investment to push the club forward to a position they need to get to. Clearly working so far too, although in large part due to Gerrard's success in Europe, considering our turnover increased by 63%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyDD Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, Dapo Mabude said: It's not mismanagement at all. It's investment to push the club forward to a position they need to get to. Clearly working so far too, although in large part due to Gerrard's success in Europe, considering our turnover increased by 63%. The business has had a loss of 11.3 Million quid in a year. The business relies on soft loans, with 34 million quid having been converted into shares in the last 18 months. Staff costs increased from 24.1m to 34.5m and cash spent on player signings rose from 15.1m to 23m The business 'needs' a further 10 million quid before the end of the season, or, presumably, it's curtains. That looks an awful lot like mismanagement to me. I don't know what else you would call it when a business made that sort of loss but increased costs to those degrees. If you are making a loss, you decrease your costs. You don't increase them. Otherwise you end up needing continuing to make a loss and need to borrow, or find, or earn, an awful lot of extra income. It's a gamble, a high stakes one, and gambling is rarely a good way to manage ones finances, as any trip to a bookies will demonstrate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dapo Mabude Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 17 minutes ago, AndyDD said: I don't know what else you would call it when a business made that sort of loss but increased costs to those degrees. If you are making a loss, you decrease your costs. You don't increase them. Otherwise you end up needing continuing to make a loss and need to borrow, or find, or earn, an awful lot of extra income. Well we did find a lot of extra income. 63% more in fact. That's why we were able to increase costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyDD Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 1 minute ago, Dapo Mabude said: Well we did find a lot of extra income. 63% more in fact. That's why we were able to increase costs. They made a loss of 11.3 million, so they weren't able to increase costs, really, were they? Because it contributes to them being a ways away from breaking even and needing 10 million to survive. They are spending more than they can afford and therefore need to rely on loans (34 million in the last 18months) and still, there's that need for 10million quid. Increasing the turnover was good. Increasing the costs again was not. The hole in the finances exists. That is mismanagement; the very existence of the hole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slasher Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 6 minutes ago, AndyDD said: They made a loss of 11.3 million, so they weren't able to increase costs, really, were they? Because it contributes to them being a ways away from breaking even and needing 10 million to survive. They are spending more than they can afford and therefore need to rely on loans (34 million in the last 18months) and still, there's that need for 10million quid. Increasing the turnover was good. Increasing the costs again was not. The hole in the finances exists. That is mismanagement; the very existence of the hole. I think we have all worked out by now huns aren't very good at managing finances 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dapo Mabude Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 7 minutes ago, AndyDD said: They made a loss of 11.3 million, so they weren't able to increase costs, really, were they? What? Are you using your entirely own definition of the term cost? 7 minutes ago, AndyDD said: Because it contributes to them being a ways away from breaking even and needing 10 million to survive. Again you're not making much sense here at all. You seem to not understand the difference between fixed and recurring costs, one off costs, player trading etc. 7 minutes ago, AndyDD said: They are spending more than they can afford and therefore need to rely on loans (34 million in the last 18months) and still, there's that need for 10million quid. Increasing the turnover was good. Increasing the costs again was not. The hole in the finances exists. That is mismanagement; the very existence of the hole. Yes, it's part of a laid out strategy to get the club where it needs to go. It's obviously working at the moment as a blind man can see with the increased on field success, increasing turnover, better facilities, better club structure, better player assets etc. We could break even tomorrow but there is no need to that is the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelhumper Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 3 hours ago, Dapo Mabude said: Yeah I think you're getting overexcited. The board have already committed to cover at least 50% of that plus if we make EL next round then there is less to cover. The price tag could be hurt or be basically the same or increase. It could easily increase if his goalscoring form, at this rate, continues and he continues to score against strong teams in Euro.e Okay then, what happens next season when there is a shortfall again? More directors loans? Worked out well last time to be fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelhumper Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 6 minutes ago, Dapo Mabude said: We could break even tomorrow but there is no need to that is the point. haha, please, please keep up with this attitude. It was so much fun watch it fall apart last time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelhumper Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 11 minutes ago, slasher said: I think we have all worked out by now huns aren't very good at managing finances 😉 What makes you think that slasher? 8 minutes ago, Dapo Mabude said: . We could break even tomorrow but there is no need to that is the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dapo Mabude Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 9 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said: Okay then, what happens next season when there is a shortfall again? More directors loans? Worked out well last time to be fair. I suspect we will make a net profit on player trading next summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyDD Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 4 minutes ago, Dapo Mabude said: What? Are you using your entirely own definition of the term cost? Again you're not making much sense here at all. You seem to not understand the difference between fixed and recurring costs, one off costs, player trading etc. Yes, it's part of a laid out strategy to get the club where it needs to go. It's obviously working at the moment as a blind man can see with the increased on field success, increasing turnover, better facilities, better club structure, better player assets etc. We could break even tomorrow but there is no need to that is the point. No, i'm pointing out that if you increase turnover but still have a black hole in your finances that needs loans and an injection, from somewhere, of 10million to keep afloat, then of course you can increase costs, fine, but it's not really the brightest idea. If you increase your turnover but still need loans, still need 10 million quid to make it through to May, you should try to cut your costs, not increase them. Alternatively, you need to increase your turnover a lot more than you are. The goal should be eliminating the black hole, yes? The increase in costs is not, as far as I can tell, a sensible way to conduct the business given the degree of loss being incurred. A laid out strategy that at the moment sees the business continue to loss an awful lot of money. Will it work? Perhaps. Is it working at the moment? I'm not convinced. I don't know that I could call a business losing 11 million quid a year 'successful'. At the moment, barring getting past the semi-final, the on field success looks on track to be identical to last year. Second in the league, Europa league group stage. Hopefully they can go one better and hold on to qualify for the next round in europa league (sadly I think Porto and YB are going to go through but fingers crossed) which will make a big difference, and winning the league could be a game changer. But we shall see how it goes. I'm an Airdrie supporter, so I am particularly squeamish when I see clubs making such gargantuan losses, or fans being blase about it and having full faith in the 'strategy' of the board. I trust i'm not alone in that regard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenfrewBlue Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 8 minutes ago, AndyDD said: No, i'm pointing out that if you increase turnover but still have a black hole in your finances that needs loans and an injection, from somewhere, of 10million to keep afloat, then of course you can increase costs, fine, but it's not really the brightest idea. If you increase your turnover but still need loans, still need 10 million quid to make it through to May, you should try to cut your costs, not increase them. Alternatively, you need to increase your turnover a lot more than you are. The goal should be eliminating the black hole, yes? The increase in costs is not, as far as I can tell, a sensible way to conduct the business given the degree of loss being incurred. A laid out strategy that at the moment sees the business continue to loss an awful lot of money. Will it work? Perhaps. Is it working at the moment? I'm not convinced. I don't know that I could call a business losing 11 million quid a year 'successful'. At the moment, barring getting past the semi-final, the on field success looks on track to be identical to last year. Second in the league, Europa league group stage. Hopefully they can go one better and hold on to qualify for the next round in europa league (sadly I think Porto and YB are going to go through but fingers crossed) which will make a big difference, and winning the league could be a game changer. But we shall see how it goes. I'm an Airdrie supporter, so I am particularly squeamish when I see clubs making such gargantuan losses, or fans being blase about it and having full faith in the 'strategy' of the board. I trust i'm not alone in that regard. You are not. These figures look like a disaster waiting to happen, for me. We need to start moving on the squad deadwood and strip back costs whilst hopefully improving on field success. We have already secured a final, which is an improvement over last season, and are further ahead of the rest of the league, bar Celtic. So if, and I know its a big if, we can get out the EL group then we will have improved across the board and increased turnover. We'd still need to strip back costs to hit a profit though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenfrewBlue Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 6 hours ago, vanderark14 said: With his discipline improving, if he keeps up this form it will be hard for clubs to ignore him. It'll be interesting to see if he keeps his discipline as the pressure on rangers increases.. The League Cup final will be the acid test. If he keeps the head and plays well, irrespective of the score, then he'll have proved he's calmed down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan_McCole Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 25 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said: haha, please, please keep up with this attitude. It was so much fun watch it fall apart last time! It's terrific viewing. Head in the sand material. They'll be complaining that nobody warned them about it as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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