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46 minutes ago, ThistleWhistle said:

The only way it'll change is if the OF get bored of horsing everyone and can't see it as they'll be wrapped up in the annual coin tossing event of who wins the tin pot league for infinity as the stars to badge ratio continues to shrink.  

Can't be arsed going watch United to prop up the pretence of a competition.  If they have a good season then they'll spend 8 games trying not to get skelped by the OF and possibly another 2 in the cup if its a really good year.  That's potentially 20-25% of the season spent playing 2 sides with resources that are becoming increasing futile to try and compete with - what's the point in spending hundreds of pounds on that?      

To compound it Covid-19 has probably put a spanner in most academies so the OF will continue buying relative crap that won't allow them to progress as far as they want in Europe and the diddies will chuck thousands of pounds in wages that they can't recoup on knackered/ crap journeymen from the arse end of the English leagues.  

 

 

Agree with you.  The problem is that if you take over a club you want to maximise profit.  That is your main priority in a normal business.  Football is not a normal business.  The fans pay their money and should see healthy competition.

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29 minutes ago, Rolling hIlls said:

Agree with you.  The problem is that if you take over a club you want to maximise profit.  That is your main priority in a normal business.  Football is not a normal business.  The fans pay their money and should see healthy competition.

Totally but there must come a point, and personally think the Scottish game has gone way beyond it, where the lack of competition in the league starts affecting profit.  Even in developing players it must affect sell-on prices when there are only OF games, and a few European games when they themselves aren't cannon fodder, that players can be properly scouted in competitive games. 

Be interesting to see what Morelos goes for when Lille themselves will be looking to turn a profit on him within 24 months rather than keep him long term.    

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6 hours ago, ThistleWhistle said:

Totally but there must come a point, and personally think the Scottish game has gone way beyond it, where the lack of competition in the league starts affecting profit.  Even in developing players it must affect sell-on prices when there are only OF games, and a few European games when they themselves aren't cannon fodder, that players can be properly scouted in competitive games. 

Be interesting to see what Morelos goes for when Lille themselves will be looking to turn a profit on him within 24 months rather than keep him long term.    

This fascination about Morelos is outstanding on here.  Guessing about what he is worth lol.  Keep the ball up.

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8 hours ago, ThistleWhistle said:

Be interesting to see what Morelos goes for when Lille themselves will be looking to turn a profit on him within 24 months rather than keep him long term.    

This is why sell on clauses are key. HJK get 10% of the Morelos fee, I believe

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16 hours ago, Rolling hIlls said:

This fascination about Morelos is outstanding on here.  Guessing about what he is worth lol.  Keep the ball up.

I'm not really interested in it for a pop at Rangers but to see what the going rate for one of the SPL's best players with European experience minus tapped in the head discount is.

For the gap to close ideally the diddies should be selling promising players from their academy to the OF with sell-on clauses then the OF flog them for silly money following European experience.  When Ajax sold De Jong for 80m euros Williem II got 8-10m of it - obviously he's a rare talent but imagine the trickle down effect of the OF selling a Scottish trained player regularly like Ajax/PSV do and it would be a game changer for the league.      

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14 hours ago, Stu101 said:

This is why sell on clauses are key. HJK get 10% of the Morelos fee, I believe

Potentially the sell on fees could make them more than the transfer itself if he bangs them in in the Champions League. 

The initial fee is just more out of interest to see where one of the better players in the SPL ranks against the mental market down south. If Rangers have their pants pulled down then they in turn are likely to do the same to one of the diddies here who in turn will then do this to the next club down the ladder.  If Rangers get a decent fee then went for Shankland for example and had a bit more to chuck at United then they would have a bit more to chuck at a replacement and teams see the value in developing talent rather than just picking up short term shite journey men that they'll lose money on.      

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56 minutes ago, ThistleWhistle said:

I'm not really interested in it for a pop at Rangers but to see what the going rate for one of the SPL's best players with European experience minus tapped in the head discount is.

For the gap to close ideally the diddies should be selling promising players from their academy to the OF with sell-on clauses then the OF flog them for silly money following European experience.  When Ajax sold De Jong for 80m euros Williem II got 8-10m of it - obviously he's a rare talent but imagine the trickle down effect of the OF selling a Scottish trained player regularly like Ajax/PSV do and it would be a game changer for the league.      

Aye sorry pal.  I always go back to Trevor Steven in my weird analogy.  I had a season ticket at that time.  In my opinion he was the best midfielder in UK at that particular time.  Then Rangers sold him for 5 million.  In the pub the day after my Rangers pal was boasting to our Celtic pal about what a great bit of business that was.  I said to him that he wouldn't be seeing him next week or any of the money.  Anyway, what I am trying to say is that whatever Rangers get for Morelos wont affect the price of cheese but it will affect the real supporters enjoying watching a good talent.  But we have to accept that players come here now with an ambition to play in a higher league and earn the real dosh.  It was a mind boggler for me when I heard that Fraser Forster was on 92 grand a week.  Not Forsters fault as I rate him well.  But that money is ridiculous.  Still look to bright side that we are a football nation and should all be working together to improve the situation.  Two ideas I have been looking at is the thought of own clubs having streaming and also Parkies idea that gate money should be more shared.

 

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1 hour ago, Rolling hIlls said:

Aye sorry pal.  I always go back to Trevor Steven in my weird analogy.  I had a season ticket at that time.  In my opinion he was the best midfielder in UK at that particular time.  Then Rangers sold him for 5 million.  In the pub the day after my Rangers pal was boasting to our Celtic pal about what a great bit of business that was.  I said to him that he wouldn't be seeing him next week or any of the money.  Anyway, what I am trying to say is that whatever Rangers get for Morelos wont affect the price of cheese but it will affect the real supporters enjoying watching a good talent.  But we have to accept that players come here now with an ambition to play in a higher league and earn the real dosh.  It was a mind boggler for me when I heard that Fraser Forster was on 92 grand a week.  Not Forsters fault as I rate him well.  But that money is ridiculous.  Still look to bright side that we are a football nation and should all be working together to improve the situation.  Two ideas I have been looking at is the thought of own clubs having streaming and also Parkies idea that gate money should be more shared.

 

Think the stream's would increase viewing overall but it would rob Peter to pay Paul a bit as it would defo affect tv audiences.  It would also probably make the problem worse in that the OF would possibly have an even bigger slice of the revenue unless it was shared better.

On sharing the tickets it would make sense in that it would level the playing field a bit so would hopefully make it a bit more interesting.  Probably never get off the ground as the OF would lose a skelp of income but it would also probably mean a drop in ticket revenue for Aberdeen and Hibs as the 4 OF games probably wouldn't cover the x% of home games they had to hand over to everyone else.  

No idea how we'll improve it but the main stakeholders seem to continually find new ways to make it worse.  

 

Edited by ThistleWhistle

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I posted my thoughts on changes to the game on another thread recently but I truly dont think Scottish football will improve until it moves to a model that is totally alien to us and therefore wont ever happen. 

We need to seperate full time and part time clubs, we need to make it a rule that a certain percentage of tv money or revenue is spent on youth development, we need to provide stability to clubs regarding relegation (make it easier to move between championship and prem both in terms of promotion / relegation but also in terms of reducing the gap in finances between the 2 leagues)

To do the above would be a radical shakeup which so many people would be against so will never happen so we will be left with fans calling for a bigger league despite their own clubs not wanting it due to finance.

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I think Motherwell made more out of Marvin Johnson moving from Oxford to Middlesbrough than we did from the initial sale to Oxford. Sell one are a key part of Motherwell's transfer policy.

Cedric Kipre could be next to bring in a sell on fee and wouldn’t be surprised if we got some future income from James Scott.

Slight flaw in the sell on via old firm is that both clubs, particularly Celtic have a long history of trying to low ball Scottish clubs on transfer fees.

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7 hours ago, sbcmfc said:

I think Motherwell made more out of Marvin Johnson moving from Oxford to Middlesbrough than we did from the initial sale to Oxford. Sell one are a key part of Motherwell's transfer policy.

Cedric Kipre could be next to bring in a sell on fee and wouldn’t be surprised if we got some future income from James Scott.

Slight flaw in the sell on via old firm is that both clubs, particularly Celtic have a long history of trying to low ball Scottish clubs on transfer fees.

The rules are slightly more complex these days as well. If you develop a player, you are entitled to a % of the transfer fee for every subsequent transfer that that player make. Rules are extremely complex, but cant be contracted out of (players cant be registered without it being paid).

So you could get a 10% sell on fee for the first transfer, plus a 2% development fee for every future transfer.

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1 hour ago, Stu101 said:

The rules are slightly more complex these days as well. If you develop a player, you are entitled to a % of the transfer fee for every subsequent transfer that that player make. Rules are extremely complex, but cant be contracted out of (players cant be registered without it being paid).

So you could get a 10% sell on fee for the first transfer, plus a 2% development fee for every future transfer.

Yeah, think that will apply if Rangers sell Hastie.

Although we got shafted on Cadden as he went to MLS who are currently not included (and was immediately loaned back to Oxford who would’ve had to pay a hefty development fee...)

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