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Scottish players in action 19/20

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2 hours ago, kwhitelaw said:

😂 Indeed!  Never going to claim I'm an expert.  So are you not a fan of a back 3 or just the players I mention for right wing back (which are decidedly dodgy I'll admit but our choices are limited)?

Firstly, I don’t understand why three central defenders is suddenly an option again - I thought that had been left behind in the 1990s, after France and Zidane 4-2-3-1’ed their way to world dominance.

 

Ignoring that though, we don’t have two decent central defenders, never mind three; Forrest and Fraser are never wing backs; and any formation that reduces the number of midfielders we can play is crazy, as that has been our strongest area for decades, and still is.

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1 hour ago, dohadeer said:

Why, what did I say that was different to them?

He couldn't touch a keyboard without telling us that 352 was the way to go, usually numerous times a day, whatever the thread was about!  :lol: 

Still, he wasn't nearly as boring as some of these tits in the Football Related section.  :rolleyes: 

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21 minutes ago, daviebee said:

He couldn't touch a keyboard without telling us that 352 was the way to go, usually numerous times a day, whatever the thread was about!  :lol: 

Still, he wasn't nearly as boring as some of these tits in the Football Related section.  :rolleyes: 

I’ll make sure to print and laminate your posts then, to use them as contradictory evidence, any time I’m accused of having exactly the same views as The Dark Knight!

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3 hours ago, dohadeer said:

Firstly, I don’t understand why three central defenders is suddenly an option again - I thought that had been left behind in the 1990s, after France and Zidane 4-2-3-1’ed their way to world dominance.

 

Ignoring that though, we don’t have two decent central defenders, never mind three; Forrest and Fraser are never wing backs; and any formation that reduces the number of midfielders we can play is crazy, as that has been our strongest area for decades, and still is.

Fair point about Fraser but Forrest has definitely played wing back for Celtic in the past. You could also deploy Palmer at RWB

As for your nonsense point about it being a 90s formation we used it to good effect against England at home in 2017 and it’s currently the formation Celtic have used to go on an unbeaten run since they lost the last OF game.

I'm not saying it’ll definitely work but with the right players it could have a chance.  Off the top of my head if we had everyone available Hanley, Findlay and Tierney would be my CB choices. Swap Tierney for McKenna for the play offs

take your pick from any of our midfielders to fill the 3 spaces

Naismith up front with McGinn/Christie in a free roll off him.

A winner I’m telling you 😂

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22 minutes ago, kwhitelaw said:

 

Naismith up front with McGinn/Christie in a free roll off him.

A winner I’m telling you 😂

Naismith has scored 2 goals in his last 10 league games, plays for the team that is bottom of the league and is 33 years old.

I'd sooner play Griffiths and coming from me that's saying something.

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30 minutes ago, kwhitelaw said:

Fair point about Fraser but Forrest has definitely played wing back for Celtic in the past. You could also deploy Palmer at RWB

As for your nonsense point about it being a 90s formation we used it to good effect against England at home in 2017 and it’s currently the formation Celtic have used to go on an unbeaten run since they lost the last OF game.

I'm not saying it’ll definitely work but with the right players it could have a chance.  Off the top of my head if we had everyone available Hanley, Findlay and Tierney would be my CB choices. Swap Tierney for McKenna for the play offs

take your pick from any of our midfielders to fill the 3 spaces

Naismith up front with McGinn/Christie in a free roll off him.

A winner I’m telling you 😂

That formation would require taking players away from our strongest area, and adding them to our weakest area. It doesn’t make sense to only play with four/three midfielders, when that’s our strongest area by far. We absolutely have to play with five midfielders, to even begin to have a chance of being successful.

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On 2/11/2020 at 10:06 PM, Texas Pete said:

Looks bad but he was obviously deceived by a deflection or a wicked swerve. Hard to tell from that angle. Could happen to any keeper. 

In England Pickford's also made some howlers but is a decent keeper, Henderson at Sheffield Utd had a shocker a couple of weeks ago but both have recovered.  Keepers are just in the limelight.  I just wish we'd have someone in their mid to late twenties who was playing well and at a high level. I don't want to underplay the importance of a good keeper because that has a major boost for your defenders but I feel that the defensive set up in front of our keeper is more important.

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59 minutes ago, Hertsscot said:

In England Pickford's also made some howlers but is a decent keeper, Henderson at Sheffield Utd had a shocker a couple of weeks ago but both have recovered.  Keepers are just in the limelight.  I just wish we'd have someone in their mid to late twenties who was playing well and at a high level. I don't want to underplay the importance of a good keeper because that has a major boost for your defenders but I feel that the defensive set up in front of our keeper is more important.

Yeah it’s really easy to make a big deal of a keeper howler but forget how many good saves they make. But from my understanding Marshall hasn’t been playing well generally this season. 
 

 

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3 hours ago, ceudmilefailte said:

Naismith has scored 2 goals in his last 10 league games, plays for the team that is bottom of the league and is 33 years old.

I'd sooner play Griffiths and coming from me that's saying something.

Christ he’s been away that long I’m completely forgetting about Griffiths so aye fair point!

 

3 hours ago, dohadeer said:

That formation would require taking players away from our strongest area, and adding them to our weakest area. It doesn’t make sense to only play with four/three midfielders, when that’s our strongest area by far. We absolutely have to play with five midfielders, to even begin to have a chance of being successful.

I can’t disagree with that in fairness 

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4 hours ago, GraemeTA said:

Burke starting again for alaves

Hooked after 57 mins. Wouldn't surprise me if he was poor. Doesn't have the basic ability to play at that level imo. 

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28 minutes ago, JECK said:

Hooked after 57 mins. Wouldn't surprise me if he was poor. Doesn't have the basic ability to play at that level imo. 

Despite playing regularly at that level? 

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6 minutes ago, ProudScot said:

Despite playing regularly at that level? 

Hopefully he has been yeah great. I really hope he becomes the player everyone thinks he will. There's just been too many times I've been left thinking "wtf was that" when I've watched him whether it be a pass or a first touch. 

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The amount of abuse some of our biggest prospects get on this forum is absurd. 

There are so many examples of players developing into competent internationalists in their mid-20s. Fleck being the most recent addition to this long list. Many of whom were barely even heard of.

So, abusing 22 year olds like Burke and McKenna is criminal. Especially those 2 because they have the physical attributes to be absolute assets for us. Instead of willing our most talented guys to fail, why don't we support them. 

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18 minutes ago, Tartan blood said:

The amount of abuse some of our biggest prospects get on this forum is absurd. 

There are so many examples of players developing into competent internationalists in their mid-20s. Fleck being the most recent addition to this long list. Many of whom were barely even heard of.

So, abusing 22 year olds like Burke and McKenna is criminal. Especially those 2 because they have the physical attributes to be absolute assets for us. Instead of willing our most talented guys to fail, why don't we support them. 

I Don't think anyone is abusing them, ppl on here are just realistic about their ability to make it at international level or at a high level. I have been one of Burke's biggest supporters since he broke through but it's looking like he will struggle to play in a top league consistently. However it has been a little more promising recently with him getting game time at alaves but he's still very raw and can often be useless any time I have watched him. I still hold out hope for him as he's only 22 and every so often he shows glimpses of what he's capable of. I think la Liga is a good league for him to develop because it's very technical and skillful and less reliant on pace and power which is attributes Burke already has and doesn't need to develop. 

McKenna looks good in spells but he has his nightmares as well. Reality is we should be relying on more experienced centre backs for the national team because they tend to get slaughtered when they have a bad game and centre back is a position that relies on experience more than other positions. Just look at Hanley, everybody slags the guy for his poor performances which were when the guy was 23 and still learning his position. That's not me suggesting Hanley is some top centre back now but he isn't any worse than our other options and he did have some decent performances such as the Croatia games. McKenna is decent but the hope for him is that he will play in the epl regularly in a year or two but personally I think he will struggle to make it at that level. It's not abusing him it's just my honest take on his ability.

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26 minutes ago, Tartan blood said:

The amount of abuse some of our biggest prospects get on this forum is absurd. 

There are so many examples of players developing into competent internationalists in their mid-20s. Fleck being the most recent addition to this long list. Many of whom were barely even heard of.

So, abusing 22 year olds like Burke and McKenna is criminal. Especially those 2 because they have the physical attributes to be absolute assets for us. Instead of willing our most talented guys to fail, why don't we support them. 

I'm willing to overlook the "abusing" line if you are lol, but if you want to use Fleck as an example the difference is night and day. Fleck was a better footballer at 15/16 than Burke will ever be. That's just life.

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39 minutes ago, Tartan blood said:

The amount of abuse some of our biggest prospects get on this forum is absurd. 

There are so many examples of players developing into competent internationalists in their mid-20s. Fleck being the most recent addition to this long list. Many of whom were barely even heard of.

So, abusing 22 year olds like Burke and McKenna is criminal. Especially those 2 because they have the physical attributes to be absolute assets for us. Instead of willing our most talented guys to fail, why don't we support them. 

I couldn’t agree more. The way that people on here speak about some of our players is appalling, and shouldn’t be accepted. Calling a professional footballer ‘sh*te’ or ‘dug meat’ is ridiculous. They wouldn’t be professionals, let alone internationals, if that were true.

You can disagree with a player’s selection, or think that a certain player is better than another, but surely you can do so in an adult and respectful manner, without resorting to abusive, insulting language.

Even if you don’t agree with a particular selection, you should still be supporting that player as a Scotland player, and trusting that Steve Clarke (or whoever the current manager is) knows better than you do.

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11 minutes ago, JECK said:

I'm willing to overlook the "abusing" line if you are lol, but if you want to use Fleck as an example the difference is night and day. Fleck was a better footballer at 15/16 than Burke will ever be. That's just life.

The "abuse" line wasn't aimed at you, just in general. 

Fleck is similar because he is one of many that were over-hyped and put under too much pressure early on. e.g Gauld. So, if Fleck can overcome it then I will hold onto faith that other's can as well. 

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16 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

I Don't think anyone is abusing them, ppl on here are just realistic about their ability to make it at international level or at a high level. I have been one of Burke's biggest supporters since he broke through but it's looking like he will struggle to play in a top league consistently. However it has been a little more promising recently with him getting game time at alaves but he's still very raw and can often be useless any time I have watched him. I still hold out hope for him as he's only 22 and every so often he shows glimpses of what he's capable of. I think la Liga is a good league for him to develop because it's very technical and skillful and less reliant on pace and power which is attributes Burke already has and doesn't need to develop. 

McKenna looks good in spells but he has his nightmares as well. Reality is we should be relying on more experienced centre backs for the national team because they tend to get slaughtered when they have a bad game and centre back is a position that relies on experience more than other positions. Just look at Hanley, everybody slags the guy for his poor performances which were when the guy was 23 and still learning his position. That's not me suggesting Hanley is some top centre back now but he isn't any worse than our other options and he did have some decent performances such as the Croatia games. McKenna is decent but the hope for him is that he will play in the epl regularly in a year or two but personally I think he will struggle to make it at that level. It's not abusing him it's just my honest take on his ability.

Very well put. You have made a very constructive rebuttal. I'd like to see more of this. 

As you can see just scrolling up a bit, there are plenty on here using expletives to describe many players in our severely limited pool. 

Hanley was another I was going to mention. CB and goalkeeper are probably the 2 positions that require experience more than any other. (possibly also wingers) McKenna isn't yet getting the experience he needs at club football. So I'm glad he is getting that from his Scotland appearances. However, I do agree, we really should have more experienced heads in there. Hanley being the perfect example (on paper). I admit, I've not seen much of Hanley the last few years, so I take people's word for how bad he has been. But I was one of his biggest fans when he was first introduced to the team. The only thing he lacked was experience. I am more than willing to give him another shot.

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15 minutes ago, JECK said:

I'm willing to overlook the "abusing" line if you are lol, but if you want to use Fleck as an example the difference is night and day. Fleck was a better footballer at 15/16 than Burke will ever be. That's just life.

No he wasn't, he broke through at 17 at rangers and looked really promising but he struggled to make it at an average rangers side and had to go down to the English third tier to play regularly. It did him some good because he's worked his way up but he's not some brilliant talent, he's worked hard and has a bit of technical ability. One good season in the epl at the age of 28 doesn't make him more technically talented than Burke. Burke has shown in glimpses that he has ability but it's far to few and he's struggled. It's a myth that Burke has no ability at football and is just an athlete. You don't score a goal like he did against South Korea without having ability. Problem is he shows his ability once in 20 games. The rest of the time he looks like he's never seen a ball. However I highly doubt Burke will be playing league 1 in a years time like fleck did. 

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14 minutes ago, Tartan blood said:

Very well put. You have made a very constructive rebuttal. I'd like to see more of this. 

As you can see just scrolling up a bit, there are plenty on here using expletives to describe many players in our severely limited pool. 

Hanley was another I was going to mention. CB and goalkeeper are probably the 2 positions that require experience more than any other. (possibly also wingers) McKenna isn't yet getting the experience he needs at club football. So I'm glad he is getting that from his Scotland appearances. However, I do agree, we really should have more experienced heads in there. Hanley being the perfect example (on paper). I admit, I've not seen much of Hanley the last few years, so I take people's word for how bad he has been. But I was one of his biggest fans when he was first introduced to the team. The only thing he lacked was experience. I am more than willing to give him another shot.

Yeh some ppl are lazy and label a player shite without any kind of detailed analysis and they also seem to think we are Brazil and have an abundance of brilliant players. 

Hanley's been decent tonight against the best club team in the world. I wonder if we were to swap any of our other centre backs into Norwich's team tonight would they do better. I highly doubt it. On tonight's showing other epl teams might be tempted to buy him when Norwich go down. 

Teams like Iceland and ni do reasonably well with centre backs that are similar or worse than ours so we should be able to make do with Hanley or McKenna and get decent results.

 

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