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Scottish players in action 19/20

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Good point about writing players off too early.  Fleck has been outstanding this season and if your remember Snodgrass pissed about in league 1 and championship for years and must have played 5/6 years by now in EPL. A fit Gauld shouldnt. Shouldn't be written off just yet.

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The day after we played Germany in Dortmund in 2014, the under 21s played in Luxembourg.  

Scotland had four players called Ryan on the park at one point and Ryan Gauld was the stand out by some distance and scored 2 of the 3 goals.

The three other Ryans were Jack, Christie and Fraser, all of who's careers have progressed more successfully than Gauld's has.  

Good to see him getting a regular game but he's a lot to do before he's anywhere near a squad.

Just to add to that.  The other players who started that game were.

Jack Hamilton and Jordan McGhee - both now at Dundee.
Stuart Findlay and Stephen Hendrie both now at Kilmarnock.
Lewis MacLeod now at Wigan (Christie came on as sub for him)
Craig Slater now at Partick Thistle.
John McGinn now at Aston Villa
Stevie May back at St Johnstone.

It's worth reflecting that the players at that time who were the ones picked out for great things were Gauld, MacLeod and May and those are the ones who's careers haven't kicked on at all.   That's not all their fault, or indeed their fault at all, but its just a fact.


 

Edited by aaid
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I do remember FourFourTwo doing a feature a while back about Gauld, Christie & Fraser proclaiming the 3 Ryans as the future of scottish football though I believe it tipped Gauld to be the best of the 3

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2 hours ago, aaid said:

The day after we played Germany in Dortmund in 2014, the under 21s played in Luxembourg.  

Scotland had four players called Ryan on the park at one point and Ryan Gauld was the stand out by some distance and scored 2 of the 3 goals.

The three other Ryans were Jack, Christie and Fraser, all of who's careers have progressed more successfully than Gauld's has.  

Good to see him getting a regular game but he's a lot to do before he's anywhere near a squad.

Just to add to that.  The other players who started that game were.

Jack Hamilton and Jordan McGhee - both now at Dundee.
Stuart Findlay and Stephen Hendrie both now at Kilmarnock.
Lewis MacLeod now at Wigan (Christie came on as sub for him)
Craig Slater now at Partick Thistle.
John McGinn now at Aston Villa
Stevie May back at St Johnstone.

It's worth reflecting that the players at that time who were the ones picked out for great things were Gauld, MacLeod and May and those are the ones who's careers haven't kicked on at all.   That's not all their fault, or indeed their fault at all, but its just a fact.


 

Just for accuracy, Craig and Thistle parted company yesterday, aaid.

He was unlucky with injury and found it hard to break back into the team in any meaningful way under McCall. No indication where he's going next, but hope he gets fixed up soon, as he's a player and a thoroughly decent bloke.

Edited by Barney Rubble

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59 minutes ago, Barney Rubble said:

Just for accuracy, Craig and Thistle parted company yesterday, aaid.

He was unlucky with injury and found it hard to break back into the team in any meaningful way under McCall. No indication where he's going next, but hope he gets fixed up soon, as he's a player and a thoroughly decent bloke.

He needs to update his Wikipedia page.

Theres always going to be a high attrition rate from Under 21s.  Again, that's not problematic and at least virtually all of the guys in that group are playing at a reasonable level.

if you get four players from any U21 group who go on to be regular internationals I think you're doing well and we got that with McGinn, Christie, Fraser and Jack.  Just not the ones that were being tipped at the time, or at least all of them.   Just shows you the difficulty in predicting how players will progress and what might happen to them along the way. 

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3 hours ago, aaid said:

The day after we played Germany in Dortmund in 2014, the under 21s played in Luxembourg.  

Scotland had four players called Ryan on the park at one point and Ryan Gauld was the stand out by some distance and scored 2 of the 3 goals.

The three other Ryans were Jack, Christie and Fraser, all of who's careers have progressed more successfully than Gauld's has.  

Good to see him getting a regular game but he's a lot to do before he's anywhere near a squad.

Just to add to that.  The other players who started that game were.

Jack Hamilton and Jordan McGhee - both now at Dundee.
Stuart Findlay and Stephen Hendrie both now at Kilmarnock.
Lewis MacLeod now at Wigan (Christie came on as sub for him)
Craig Slater now at Partick Thistle.
John McGinn now at Aston Villa
Stevie May back at St Johnstone.

It's worth reflecting that the players at that time who were the ones picked out for great things were Gauld, MacLeod and May and those are the ones who's careers haven't kicked on at all.   That's not all their fault, or indeed their fault at all, but its just a fact.


 

Cheers for that. Post of the year award.

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4 hours ago, aaid said:

He needs to update his Wikipedia page.

Theres always going to be a high attrition rate from Under 21s.  Again, that's not problematic and at least virtually all of the guys in that group are playing at a reasonable level.

if you get four players from any U21 group who go on to be regular internationals I think you're doing well and we got that with McGinn, Christie, Fraser and Jack.  Just not the ones that were being tipped at the time, or at least all of them.   Just shows you the difficulty in predicting how players will progress and what might happen to them along the way. 

He signed for Queen's Park this afternoon apparently.

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Regarding Gauld, it’s not inconceivable that he doesn’t have a massive desire to become an international player. As hard as that is for us as fans to grasp I get the impression he’s happy with his lifestyle ie decent wage, good weather etc and as a result is happy to play away for average teams in Portugal.

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14 minutes ago, Rab The Crab said:

Regarding Gauld, it’s not inconceivable that he doesn’t have a massive desire to become an international player. As hard as that is for us as fans to grasp I get the impression he’s happy with his lifestyle ie decent wage, good weather etc and as a result is happy to play away for average teams in Portugal.

He’s still only 24, I’m still gonna hold on to the hope his career gets fully back on track and he’s back playing at the top of Portuguese football. He had outstanding technical ability as a teenager, you don’t lose that. Just look at John fleck now. He was in league 1 with Coventry at 24 now he’s fighting for European Football with Sheffield. 
 

Hopefully we’ll be saying the same with with Gauld in a few years. 

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4 hours ago, ElChris04 said:

He’s still only 24, I’m still gonna hold on to the hope his career gets fully back on track and he’s back playing at the top of Portuguese football. He had outstanding technical ability as a teenager, you don’t lose that. Just look at John fleck now. He was in league 1 with Coventry at 24 now he’s fighting for European Football with Sheffield. 
 

Hopefully we’ll be saying the same with with Gauld in a few years. 

I’m not questioning his ability at all, it’s just worth considering that while we’re desperate for all these players to come good and start racking up the caps there will be players(and I’m not necessarily saying he is one)who think it’s more important to have a nice lifestyle and to a degree be out of the public eye.

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The thing to remember about John Fleck is that he's really only playing in the EPL as a result of Sheffield United's progression.

When he joined them, he was a League One player and they were a League One club.  He's been one of their better players throughout their climb up the divisions and he should rightly take his share of the credit that they are where they are.   I'm not saying he's lucky to be where he is now or doesn't deserve it, far from it.

However, it just shows you the difficulty players have in getting to the top levels.   It's fair to use John Fleck as an example of what *can* happen but he is very much the exception.

This is all to Fleck's credit,  but the reality is that any player ages 24 or 25 who is playing at that level is probably playing at the highest level they'll ever do unless they do it by being promoted with their clubs.   

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2 hours ago, aaid said:

The thing to remember about John Fleck is that he's really only playing in the EPL as a result of Sheffield United's progression.

When he joined them, he was a League One player and they were a League One club.  He's been one of their better players throughout their climb up the divisions and he should rightly take his share of the credit that they are where they are.   I'm not saying he's lucky to be where he is now or doesn't deserve it, far from it.

However, it just shows you the difficulty players have in getting to the top levels.   It's fair to use John Fleck as an example of what *can* happen but he is very much the exception.

This is all to Fleck's credit,  but the reality is that any player ages 24 or 25 who is playing at that level is probably playing at the highest level they'll ever do unless they do it by being promoted with their clubs.   

You make a fair point. However, I would say there are plenty of players playing lower than their level. Equally, there are plenty in the top leagues that shouldn't be there.

Scotland are also perennial late bloomers. Paul Hartley comes to mind. Being unlucky with injuries is another cause of being at a lower level at 24. 

There are many factors that could contribute to Shankland, and others, not having reached the top. Ability isn't the only metric in modern football.

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31 minutes ago, Tartan blood said:

You make a fair point. However, I would say there are plenty of players playing lower than their level. Equally, there are plenty in the top leagues that shouldn't be there.

Scotland are also perennial late bloomers. Paul Hartley comes to mind. Being unlucky with injuries is another cause of being at a lower level at 24. 

There are many factors that could contribute to Shankland, and others, not having reached the top. Ability isn't the only metric in modern football.

Graham Alexander would also be a very good example from recent history.  I do something think that if they played in Scotland they might get a bit more notice.

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43 minutes ago, Tartan blood said:

You make a fair point. However, I would say there are plenty of players playing lower than their level. Equally, there are plenty in the top leagues that shouldn't be there.

Scotland are also perennial late bloomers. Paul Hartley comes to mind. Being unlucky with injuries is another cause of being at a lower level at 24. 

There are many factors that could contribute to Shankland, and others, not having reached the top. Ability isn't the only metric in modern football.

 

10 minutes ago, Hertsscot said:

Graham Alexander would also be a very good example from recent history.  I do something think that if they played in Scotland they might get a bit more notice.

These are both good examples but I'd say they're very much the exception than the rule.  Graham Alexander is another example of a player who got to the EPL via his club - Burnley - being promoted.   In the general case, players tend to find their natural level.

i remember talking to Paul Devlin and he told me thought his form was better playing for Birmingham City in the Championship the season before he was called up and that it was easier to get called up because they'd been promoted and he was now playing in the EPL.

 

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11 minutes ago, Cove_Sheep said:

Griffiths scores again.

St Johnstone have been garbage so far, but he's looked bright.

Hope he keeps this up. I didn’t think Lennon would play him much to be honest but I’m glad to be proven wrong.

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16 hours ago, aaid said:

 

These are both good examples but I'd say they're very much the exception than the rule.  Graham Alexander is another example of a player who got to the EPL via his club - Burnley - being promoted.   In the general case, players tend to find their natural level.

i remember talking to Paul Devlin and he told me thought his form was better playing for Birmingham City in the Championship the season before he was called up and that it was easier to get called up because they'd been promoted and he was now playing in the EPL.

 

EPL teams don't tend to buy too many players from the lower leagues.  Promotion is often the best way for a player to get their chance at a higher league.  Even Robertson had a season in the Championship with Hull.  McGinn won promotion with Villa, McLean and Hanley with Norwich.  Fraser started in League 1 with Bournemouth.   

I'm not sure I get the Devlin example.  He hardly played for Birmingham in the season they got promoted but played almost every match in the EPL.  Also, you'd expect a winger to be more effective in a winning team at a lower level than mid-table team at a higher level.  

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16 hours ago, csinclair said:

Hope he keeps this up. I didn’t think Lennon would play him much to be honest but I’m glad to be proven wrong.

Yeah I thought the same but lennon seems to be playing him up with Edouard which is good. The more games he gets the better for us.

3 hours ago, Tartan_McCole said:

Good night for the Scottish boys at Celtic yesterday. Another start and goal for Griffiths. An assist and goal for Forrest. Greg Taylor also had a really good game.

Agree, griff looked sharp and thought Taylor played well too. Forrest was standard forrest, not particularly great but pops up with a goal and assist, no doubt he will start for Scotland and do fuck all

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Forrest has something like 17 goals and 18 assists this season.

He should be starting for Scotland IMO. I think folk overplay how bad he is when with us - far worse than him in terms of contribution in a dark jersey compared to club form. Our captain for starters.

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