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Scottish players in action 19/20


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21 minutes ago, 0Neils40yarder said:

Well if we can pick Shankland from a mickey Mouse league in Scotland , why not Gauld from a mickey Mouse league in Portugal? 

He’d be in my next squad for the Nations League. He’s going to be that division’s player of the year. Been playing a Ryan Christie type role. Would be a good back up to him. 
 

Would love Harvey Barnes (scored 2 tonight) but Clarke’s chat with him must not have been positive in a Scotland sense. 

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15 minutes ago, Hercules Rockefeller said:

Not a Malky Mackay fan but I didn't see anything unreasonable in his comments. Gilmour has been superb in the last two games but we are indeed very strong in midfield. It's potentially two huge games to put him into when he's yet to make his international debut. Not as obvious a choice as some are implying.

He’s quoted as saying Gilmour will be a mainstay in the U21s and will probably have another two campaigns at that level as if he can see into the future.

If Gilmour stays in the Chelsea team for the rest of the season and into next season he will play in our Nations League games and will be nowhere near the U21 squad.

Mackay is a pish talker and always has been. 

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I think it's clear Gilmour has to be picked for the upcoming squad. It would be daft not to, guy looks like a real talent and most countries of our size and talent pool would be calling him up. The only real argument is whether he gets any game time as it is a big game a continuity from the last two games is important. If we are up 2 nil and that's a big if I would be happy for Gilmour to come off the bench for the last 15mins. 

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23 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

I think it's clear Gilmour has to be picked for the upcoming squad. It would be daft not to, guy looks like a real talent and most countries of our size and talent pool would be calling him up. The only real argument is whether he gets any game time as it is a big game a continuity from the last two games is important. If we are up 2 nil and that's a big if I would be happy for Gilmour to come off the bench for the last 15mins. 

I think that it’s a difficult one to find comparable situations for, because his sudden rise has been so extreme. He only became a member of the Chelsea first team squad a month ago, and in - I think - his first two appearances since then, Chelsea are playing in a live TV match and he wins the Man of the Match award in both. Yet, he is still only 18, and has barely played any minutes of senior football in his life - only a total of 22 minutes of football away from Stamford Bridge in his whole career in fact. Regardless of this week’s hype, and of potential or talent, that is incredibly inexperienced to be a senior international player.

Several people on here have claimed that other countries would definitely call a player in that position up, or have called players in that position up in the past. Is there some evidence to back this up? Surely there are also (far more?) examples of times when countries have waited longer to call players up as well? I suppose times have changed as well, in that there are no international friendlies any more, and every international game is now competitive, to varying degrees, so there are no games which are ‘risk-free’ in terms of trying new players.

I’m not sure it’s quite as easy/clear cut a decision as a lot of people on here are suggesting - maybe it is, and Clarke has already decided that Gilmour has to be in the squad. The next week will be an interesting one, but I’m surprised at how big the hype on here has got around this topic.

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7 minutes ago, dohadeer said:

I think that it’s a difficult one to find comparable situations for, because his sudden rise has been so extreme. He only became a member of the Chelsea first team squad a month ago, and in - I think - his first two appearances since then, Chelsea are playing in a live TV match and he wins the Man of the Match award in both. Yet, he is still only 18, and has barely played any minutes of senior football in his life - only a total of 22 minutes of football away from Stamford Bridge in his whole career in fact. Regardless of this week’s hype, and of potential or talent, that is incredibly inexperienced to be a senior international player.

Several people on here have claimed that other countries would definitely call a player in that position up, or have called players in that position up in the past. Is there some evidence to back this up? Surely there are also (far more?) examples of times when countries have waited longer to call players up as well? I suppose times have changed as well, in that there are no international friendlies any more, and every international game is now competitive, to varying degrees, so there are no games which are ‘risk-free’ in terms of trying new players.

I’m not sure it’s quite as easy/clear cut a decision as a lot of people on here are suggesting - maybe it is, and Clarke has already decided that Gilmour has to be in the squad. The next week will be an interesting one, but I’m surprised at how big the hype on here has got around this topic.

I am pretty sure Wales have done it with a couple of players, Harry Wilson and another that I can't remember. Gareth bale was called up in May of 2006 so from what I can see he would of only played 2 games for saints in the championship by then. Aaron connelly of Brighton was called up after only a few appearances for Brighton, I think it says on Google he was called up to the Ireland squad the same day he scored two goals against Tottenham. Martin odegaard was called up for Norway after 1 real Madrid appearance although he had played a fair amount of games for stromsgodset. Darren fletcher had only a few senior games at man utd before he was called up. I would say Gilmour looks like one of those wonder kids like fabregas or Rooney who are ready for high level football at the age of 18/19. 

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Call Gilmour up. What is the risk. He has proven he has the talent. MOTM with some of the best midfielders in Europe. Scotland has a talent, he is 18, no 16. How many fuckin times have we had players with this hype and sat them oot. To me, it's worth it. It also sets an example that the manager is willing to put his faith in a young Scottish talent in a big match. Sends a good message out to young Scots that may have thought they have no chance. "Fuckin get right in aboot them Billy". Yae have ma support wee man... Alba Gu Brath.....

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37 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

I am pretty sure Wales have done it with a couple of players, Harry Wilson and another that I can't remember. Gareth bale was called up in May of 2006 so from what I can see he would of only played 2 games for saints in the championship by then. Aaron connelly of Brighton was called up after only a few appearances for Brighton, I think it says on Google he was called up to the Ireland squad the same day he scored two goals against Tottenham. Martin odegaard was called up for Norway after 1 real Madrid appearance although he had played a fair amount of games for stromsgodset. Darren fletcher had only a few senior games at man utd before he was called up. I would say Gilmour looks like one of those wonder kids like fabregas or Rooney who are ready for high level football at the age of 18/19. 

I think that the only statement that I’ve not ticked off in the past week on my Billy Gilmour bingo is a Messi comparison, but I’m sure that someone on here will provide one of those by the time our squad is announced.

Was Gareth Bale seriously in a senior international squad after only 2 appearances at English Championship level?

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39 minutes ago, Big Ramy 1314 said:

Call Gilmour up. What is the risk. He has proven he has the talent. MOTM with some of the best midfielders in Europe. Scotland has a talent, he is 18, no 16. How many fuckin times have we had players with this hype and sat them oot. To me, it's worth it. It also sets an example that the manager is willing to put his faith in a young Scottish talent in a big match. Sends a good message out to young Scots that may have thought they have no chance. "Fuckin get right in aboot them Billy". Yae have ma support wee man... Alba Gu Brath.....

The risk would be that he can’t yet produce that level of performance consistently/often enough. We’ve seen that he’s got the talent and got a performance in him, but we don’t have any sort of indication yet as to how regularly he can hit the heights of this past week. 2 months would be a fairer assessment period than 2 games.

It’ll be interesting to see where he ends up in the Chelsea pecking order when more of their midfielders are available. Even if he ends up back on the bench, at least his two performances this week have hopefully guaranteed him some more minutes than what he was previously receiving.

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3 minutes ago, dohadeer said:

I think that the only statement that I’ve not ticked off in the past week on my Billy Gilmour bingo is a Messi comparison, but I’m sure that someone on here will provide one of those by the time our squad is announced.

Was Gareth Bale seriously in a senior international squad after only 2 appearances at English Championship level?

No ones saying he will defo be a superstar like Rooney or Messi but he does look like a wonderkid who will play first team football at the age of 18/19. I am not trying to overhype him as he could easily drift of the radar in a couple of years like many others. I do think he is good enough to be called up and it seems like Wales often do this with their upcoming young players so I don't see why we shouldn't. 

From what I could see on Wikipedia bale made his first appearance after a couple of appearances. Might of read it wrong though. 

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Just now, mccaughey85 said:

No ones saying he will defo be a superstar like Rooney or Messi but he does look like a wonderkid who will play first team football at the age of 18/19. I am not trying to overhype him as he could easily drift of the radar in a couple of years like many others. I do think he is good enough to be called up and it seems like Wales often do this with their upcoming young players so I don't see why we shouldn't. 

From what I could see on Wikipedia bale made his first appearance after a couple of appearances. Might of read it wrong though. 

Just checked that myself, and that does seem to be the case. Aged 16 and after only two appearances in the English Championship. I can’t believe that you’d call a 16-year-old with 2 career appearances into your senior international team. That is totally unbelievable to me, but certainly changes my perspective somewhat on the Billy Gilmour situation.

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16 hours ago, dohadeer said:

Ok, I’ll probably get pelters for this, but I don’t really follow the youth structures or anything like that. What are the performance schools? How are they different/better to what we have done in the past? Why would they allow us to suddenly produce a level of players way beyond what we have ever done before?

Genuinely interested, as there have been some hugely optimistic claims in the past few pages of this thread.

They basically give you extra coaching and time on the field out with your clubside from 12-16, before, during and I think after school. I can't remember the exact numbers but I think it is roughly an extra 200 hours of football a year out with their club side's training.

 

Celtic implementated a similar program before that at St. Ninians. It gave us Tierney and England Dembele 😅

Rangers after revamping their youth system a few years ago have followed suit. It's only been a few years and most of rangers best young players were already at performance schools. Kai Kennedy is one who came through the rangers youth school partnership and is very technically gifted, the only problem is he make Gilmour look like a giant 😅. Despite his size Kennedy (like Gilmour) has always played above his age. He's one I'd keep my eye on. He's 17 and has fantastic vision and an eye for a pass. Rangers colts played Inverness recently and while they lost in terrible conditions, you could see how good a footballer Kennedy was. He's being tracked by Man City, Bayern Munich and Roma.

 

It's worth noting that since these implementations more and more of our young players are being signed or tracked by actual top clubs. Up until recently barely any young Scots were being signed or watched by top clubs, now you have top sides from nit just England but across Europe watching our youngsters. The only young Scots you'd get as these clubs in the 5/10 years before that were English born players.

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14 hours ago, Texas Pete said:

Are there many 18 year old midfielders that have played 2/3 first team games for their club in the England squad?

I'm not saying Gilmour shouldn't be in the squad but I think you may be wrong about him being selected for England right now if he was English and saying Clarke should be sacked of he doesn't pick him for this squad is ridiculous.

Southgate is extremely pro youth and Gilmour is the exact type of player he and the English have been dying for. Someone who can control the tempo of a game and move the ball in tight spaces in midfield. England are desperate for that type of player, as most of their central midfielders are tough tackling cdms, box-to-box mids or attacking midfielders. I'm not saying he'd start a game but he would in their next squad.

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7 hours ago, mccaughey85 said:

I am pretty sure Wales have done it with a couple of players, Harry Wilson and another that I can't remember. Gareth bale was called up in May of 2006 so from what I can see he would of only played 2 games for saints in the championship by then. Aaron connelly of Brighton was called up after only a few appearances for Brighton, I think it says on Google he was called up to the Ireland squad the same day he scored two goals against Tottenham. Martin odegaard was called up for Norway after 1 real Madrid appearance although he had played a fair amount of games for stromsgodset. Darren fletcher had only a few senior games at man utd before he was called up. I would say Gilmour looks like one of those wonder kids like fabregas or Rooney who are ready for high level football at the age of 18/19. 

I'm sure Wales picked a 17 year old striker who's on Liverpool's books, but hadn't played for the first team. Iirc, he played and scored (maybe even the winner)

*Edit* here he is, Ben Woodburn. Still only on loan at Oxford Utd, but 10 caps and two goals for Wales. Second Youngest ever Welsh goalscorer and on his debut

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Woodburn

Edited by Bobby Russell's Lovechild
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9 hours ago, dohadeer said:

I think that it’s a difficult one to find comparable situations for, because his sudden rise has been so extreme. He only became a member of the Chelsea first team squad a month ago, and in - I think - his first two appearances since then, Chelsea are playing in a live TV match and he wins the Man of the Match award in both. Yet, he is still only 18, and has barely played any minutes of senior football in his life - only a total of 22 minutes of football away from Stamford Bridge in his whole career in fact. Regardless of this week’s hype, and of potential or talent, that is incredibly inexperienced to be a senior international player.

Several people on here have claimed that other countries would definitely call a player in that position up, or have called players in that position up in the past. Is there some evidence to back this up? Surely there are also (far more?) examples of times when countries have waited longer to call players up as well? I suppose times have changed as well, in that there are no international friendlies any more, and every international game is now competitive, to varying degrees, so there are no games which are ‘risk-free’ in terms of trying new players.

I’m not sure it’s quite as easy/clear cut a decision as a lot of people on here are suggesting - maybe it is, and Clarke has already decided that Gilmour has to be in the squad. The next week will be an interesting one, but I’m surprised at how big the hype on here has got around this topic.

It's not like the past week has been his first involvement in the first team. He's featured in 3 EPL games, 2 FA Cup Games and 2 League Cup games this season and has been on bench plenty in EPL/CL without coming off.

 

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Theo Walcott. Aged 17, hadn’t even played for Arsenal’s first team (21 games for Southampton in the Championship to his name) and had no England caps yet was called into Sven’s England World Cup squad in 2006. 

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14 minutes ago, McTeeko said:

Theo Walcott. Aged 17, hadn’t even played for Arsenal’s first team (21 games for Southampton in the Championship to his name) and had no England caps yet was called into Sven’s England World Cup squad in 2006. 

Yeah but that was really fucking stupid of Sven. I think he left out Defoe as well then Rooney got injured early on (or aggravated an injury he was carrying) I recall and they ended up missing a striker. Walcott never got near a game as they were on the backfoot from the outset. It was a weird, weird decision by Sven that backfired.

I would still call up Gilmour but.

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10 hours ago, Super_Scotlandfan said:

He’d be in my next squad for the Nations League. He’s going to be that division’s player of the year. Been playing a Ryan Christie type role. Would be a good back up to him. 
 

Would love Harvey Barnes (scored 2 tonight) but Clarke’s chat with him must not have been positive in a Scotland sense. 

With all due respect why would he even consider switching. He evidently feels 100% English, was born and brought up in England, has played all of his young career in England and has represented England at multiple levels. 

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16 minutes ago, thplinth said:

Yeah but that was really fucking stupid of Sven. I think he left out Defoe as well then Rooney got injured early on (or aggravated an injury he was carrying) I recall and they ended up missing a striker. Walcott never got near a game as they were on the backfoot from the outset. It was a weird, weird decision by Sven that backfired.

I would still call up Gilmour but.

Agreed, I was just making the point as someone asked for examples. Pretty sure that was when Rooney was just coming back from a broken metatarsal, wasn’t 100% fit and ended getting sent off v Portugal 👍🏼

Edited by McTeeko
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1 hour ago, Squirrelhumper said:

It's not like the past week has been his first involvement in the first team. He's featured in 3 EPL games, 2 FA Cup Games and 2 League Cup games this season and has been on bench plenty in EPL/CL without coming off.

 

He also has potentially another three games with Chelsea before the playoffs. More than enough to prove his worth of being in the first team

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9 hours ago, dohadeer said:

The risk would be that he can’t yet produce that level of performance consistently/often enough. We’ve seen that he’s got the talent and got a performance in him, but we don’t have any sort of indication yet as to how regularly he can hit the heights of this past week. 2 months would be a fairer assessment period than 2 games.

I guess to calculate the risk you have to look at him in comparison to who would miss out because of him? Kenny McLean? I mean, he is solid, but he cannot do what Gilmour has done in the last week. I'm willing to bet Gilmour can do what McLean does when he's not on top form.

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