Guest ElChris04 Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 2 hours ago, Tartan_McCole said: Top class finish? The keeper mad an absolute Jeremy Hunt of it. Aye mate because having the ability to dribble past 2 players and open up the defence to shoot at a very tight angle to catch the keeper out isn’t a top class goal. The build up and finish of where it was shot was undeniably a top class finish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrniaboc Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 1 hour ago, ErsatzThistle said: For some incomprehensible reason, the long held mentality behind our national football team is that 24 or 25 is the recommended age for a debut Fuck that. I don't doubt there are famous cases of us waiting too long, but it is this really true any more? Our recent squads have been packed full of lads who got their first call-up when they were about 20-22 years old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErsatzThistle Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 1 minute ago, mrniaboc said: I don't doubt there are famous cases of us waiting too long, but it is this really true any more? Our recent squads have been packed full of lads who got their first call-up when they were about 20-22 years old. You still regularly get pundits and ex players (some of whom are angling for SFA jobs) in articles or on the radio expressing disapproval of players of 19 or 20 being called up Apparently such young players haven't "served their apprenticeship yet" or are "jumping the queue". Idiocy. No wonder we have been held back for so long. To be fair to him, Craig Brown did concede a few years ago that (with the benefit of hindsight) when it became clear his days as Scotland manager were numbered, he really should have used his final few games to blood a number of young players and make it a bit easier for his successor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 5 hours ago, ErsatzThistle said: McCulloch only ever scored one goal for Scotland. Just noticed that. Amazing what 10 years can do for a player’s legacy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bino's Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 43 minutes ago, ErsatzThistle said: You still regularly get pundits and ex players (some of whom are angling for SFA jobs) in articles or on the radio expressing disapproval of players of 19 or 20 being called up Apparently such young players haven't "served their apprenticeship yet" or are "jumping the queue". Idiocy. No wonder we have been held back for so long. To be fair to him, Craig Brown did concede a few years ago that (with the benefit of hindsight) when it became clear his days as Scotland manager were numbered, he really should have used his final few games to blood a number of young players and make it a bit easier for his successor. The main problem is that the a lot of the current prominent (highest paid) players, refuse to play for us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProudScot Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 3 hours ago, ErsatzThistle said: For some incomprehensible reason, the long held mentality behind our national football team is that 24 or 25 is the recommended age for a debut Fuck that. Entirely true. One of the most frustrating aspects of being a Scotland fan also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceudmilefailte Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 We keep going on about blooding young players but lets be honest who could we have started young, Tierney,Burke, Ryan Gauld? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzohiggy Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 42 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said: We keep going on about blooding young players but lets be honest who could we have started young, Tierney,Burke, Ryan Gauld? If young players are ready and deserve a place in the squad or team then I'm all for it and there are definately times in the past where our managers have been reluctant to play youth. There is an argument to say gilmour and Johnston could be called up but neither they, nor any other young players are crying out to be picked. I'm sure when they are they will be in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan Chris Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 12 hours ago, gonzohiggy said: McCulloch will be absolutely buzzing at that comparison! 😂 From memory I'm pretty sure he was seen as a decent young striker coming through at Motherwell but then he developed in physical utility player as his career went on. Was a premier league regular at Wigan and then did fine at Rangers. Seems he only scored v Ukraine in the euro 2008 qualifiers. Was convinced he'd scored one of the late winners v Georgia or Lithuania but the Georgia game Craig Beattie scored in 89th minute and Kris Boyd scored in the other one. Loads of attackers scored in that campaign when I see the matches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan Chris Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 10 hours ago, ErsatzThistle said: McCulloch only ever scored one goal for Scotland. Apologies, as I said before I was sure he scored last minute v Georgia but that was indeed Craig Beattie's only international goal. Compared to today there was a good choice of striker selection in those days and they all contributed during that period, even Gary O'Connor scored in one game! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccaughey85 Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 24 minutes ago, Tartan Chris said: Apologies, as I said before I was sure he scored last minute v Georgia but that was indeed Craig Beattie's only international goal. Compared to today there was a good choice of striker selection in those days and they all contributed during that period, even Gary O'Connor scored in one game! Lol good choice of striker. We haven't had a good choice of strikers since the early 90s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazmidd Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 Agreed, our good choice of strikers then is like our good choice of centre backs now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 It’ll be fine, our quality midfield will boss most teams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazmidd Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 5 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said: It’ll be fine, our quality midfield will boss most teams Only the best in the business can boss most teams. We can boss a few teams, and compete with most teams. Our Midfielders are performing with quality right now though so here's hoping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan blood Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 (edited) 12 hours ago, gonzohiggy said: If young players are ready and deserve a place in the squad or team then I'm all for it and there are definately times in the past where our managers have been reluctant to play youth. There is an argument to say gilmour and Johnston could be called up but neither they, nor any other young players are crying out to be picked. I'm sure when they are they will be in. I don't think there is any harm in picking youngsters for the squad. We don't have to play them. One of the great things Gordon Strachan did was bring along some potential stars of the future to integrate them. One such example is our Captain. Ireland just called up Celtic's 4th choice RB, (O'Connell, I believe) who has never played a single game. Even England play guys who aren't regular starters for their clubs e.g Gomez. I think Gilmour, who is regularly involved with the Chelsea first team, in a vastly superior league, deserves to be called up. Johnstone, when fit, should absolutely be involved. Edited November 30, 2019 by Tartan blood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfingers Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 Steven Fletcher banging one in. Wonder if he'll put his name in the mix for the play offs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraemeTA Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 Burke on for last half hour against real madrid. They are down 2-1. Wee equaliser against them would be nice ha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProudScot Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 2 hours ago, Tartan blood said: I don't think there is any harm in picking youngsters for the squad. We don't have to play them. One of the great things Gordon Strachan did was bring along some potential stars of the future to integrate them. One such example is our Captain. Ireland just called up Celtic's 4th choice RB, (O'Connell, I believe) who has never played a single game. Even England play guys who aren't regular starters for their clubs e.g Gomez. I think Gilmour, who is regularly involved with the Chelsea first team, in a vastly superior league, deserves to be called up. Johnstone, when fit, should absolutely be involved. Of course they should. Every country does this, including good ones. Nobody else waits till players are 27 to cap them & basically all our countries cap players if they are in the first team environment of a big club. Very frustrating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan blood Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 27 minutes ago, ProudScot said: Of course they should. Every country does this, including good ones. Nobody else waits till players are 27 to cap them & basically all our countries cap players if they are in the first team environment of a big club. Very frustrating. It's a bizarre culture we seem to have adopted. Bertie was the exception (obviously because he's not Scottish). If I remember correctly, he made Fletcher our captain before he was even a regular at Man U. McFadden was still at Motherwell when he became our talisman. Northern Ireland have had a lot of success in recent years playing guys that can't get off the bench for their clubs. Not getting into the Chelsea starting 11 every week, doesn't necessarily mean he's not good enough to be involved with Scotland. I guarantee both Irelands and Wales would have capped him by now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfingers Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 Fletcher double. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blantyre_Braveheart Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, Tartan blood said: I don't think there is any harm in picking youngsters for the squad. We don't have to play them. One of the great things Gordon Strachan did was bring along some potential stars of the future to integrate them. One such example is our Captain. Ireland just called up Celtic's 4th choice RB, (O'Connell, I believe) who has never played a single game. Even England play guys who aren't regular starters for their clubs e.g Gomez. I think Gilmour, who is regularly involved with the Chelsea first team, in a vastly superior league, deserves to be called up. Johnstone, when fit, should absolutely be involved. And the guy people want as captain McGinn, Strachan got absolute pelters for that. I think when people see people talking about ditching players and bringing through youth/u21 players, they think you are talking about first team guys. No it is about ditching average back ups, who are in their late 20s, Who offer nothing more than turning up. Then bringing guys like Johnston, Gilmour, Porteous, Turnbull into the main squad years before they normally would. This allows them to train with and develop an understanding with first team players earlier and doesn't mean they are coming in at 24/25 not knowing anyone and not having a understanding of how Scotland and these players play. Edited November 30, 2019 by Blantyre_Braveheart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProudScot Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 It would be extremely refreshing if we followed the example of other countries in a variety of ways, one of which would be capping young players. Gilmour would have 5-10 caps now if he was Irish (either of them) or Welsh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzohiggy Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, Tartan blood said: I don't think there is any harm in picking youngsters for the squad. We don't have to play them. One of the great things Gordon Strachan did was bring along some potential stars of the future to integrate them. One such example is our Captain. Ireland just called up Celtic's 4th choice RB, (O'Connell, I believe) who has never played a single game. Even England play guys who aren't regular starters for their clubs e.g Gomez. I think Gilmour, who is regularly involved with the Chelsea first team, in a vastly superior league, deserves to be called up. Johnstone, when fit, should absolutely be involved. Don't disagree that when the time is right we integrate the youngsters. A bit of context to the players you mention - gomez may not be a regular but he's played 80 odd senior games and played in the champions league final. O'connor effectively played for Ireland b team against new zealand. Our best young players just now wouldn't get in the team, when they are playing well enough they will. Edited November 30, 2019 by gonzohiggy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzohiggy Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 18 minutes ago, ProudScot said: It would be extremely refreshing if we followed the example of other countries in a variety of ways, one of which would be capping young players. Gilmour would have 5-10 caps now if he was Irish (either of them) or Welsh. Billy's 18, for him to have had 10 caps he would have had to have been picked ahead of one of mcginn, mcgregor, McLean, Fleck, Armstrong, mctominay or Jack 10 times. As outstanding a prospect as he is, he hasn't done enough to be picked ahead of any of those guys. Michael Johnston is probably the closest 21s player just now imo. He needs regular football over the next few months, score and assist regularly then he'll be in and around the squad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErsatzThistle Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 6 minutes ago, gonzohiggy said: Don't disagree that when the time is right we integrate the youngsters. So should we wait until they are 26 or 27 before giving them five minutes at the end of a friendly. No. To hell with all that. Billy Gilmour must be given his senior debut next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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