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Scottish players in action 19/20


SkyBlueScot

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23 minutes ago, Dave78 said:

Been watching the game, and you're right.

Did you see him do his usual though? Lost the ball by trying to take on a man when he should have passed it. Resulted in a Bournemouth counter attack where they were 2 on 1, and they should have scored from it.

He seems to do this almost every game he plays in. 

Yeah. I saw that. He also done it later on in the match, but thankfully the ball went out in Bournemouth's half. He has this natural inclination to receive ball, drop his shoulder and try to dribble past his man.

This is why he should be played as far up the park as possible, probably on the shoulder of a striker.

Off topic. I have no idea how Villa lost that match. It could've easily have ended 5:2. Luiz's (sp?) goal is a goal of the month contender.

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Going to throw the usual stats related ratings into the mix.

Mcginn, Hanley, Snodgrass and Robertson all had above average ratings for the EPL. Fraser did little and Armstrong even less for his time on the pitch. 

Thought Hanley had no chance of playing after his nightmare last week so will be interesting to see if he can keep his place.(am assuming Norwich have defensive injuries)

Kenny McLean was benched so maybe he just isn't up to the required standard for top flight football but he was doubtful before the game.

Lindsay and Cooper both had well above average ratings for the championship.

Marshall and Fletcher didn't do too badly considering their teams respective scores.

Any one know how  Griffiths played today?

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2 hours ago, Third Lanark said:

Rubbish - he's now having to compete for his place and may well feature tomorrow. You might just as well say what's happened to Liam Kelly.

Glenn Middleton is a superior player that couldn't get a game for the Huns... Hastie at this stage, when he was regularly getting games for Murderwell should have continued that process... Instead he took the dosh, which I cannae blame him for, I just don't see him being a regular for the Huns anytime soon giving their strengths out wide

Edited by 0Neils40yarder
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On 8/15/2019 at 9:53 PM, 0Neils40yarder said:

The boy is now loaded... His career is fucked, but he's loaded

Funny how David Turnbull was apparently making a great move but Hastie has “fucked his career” no agenda there at all.

Hastie will get games, he started the first europa league qualifier and looked a bit overwhelmed tbh and other wingers performed when he lost his place. 

He’ll probably play tomorrow and given a potential 60 game plus season he’ll end up playing a good number of games.

He’s incredibly raw and all of his reputation is based on a good 10 game spell with Motherwell.

But there’s good attributes there and Rangers will improve him, if he plays regularly in that Rangers team this season he’ll be at a level where he should be in Scotland squads every time, that’s the level now.

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McGinn was very very good yesterday, puts him in the driving seat for that central attacking role against Russia. 

Fraser was ok. He slipped the ball through for king to win the pen. Missed a really good chance at 2-1 but did well to get himself to get into that position. Still seems pretty integral to Bournemouth, we need it to stay that way!

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I see that Snodgrass has supposedly said he wants to be considered again. He had a double bereavement and family illnesses to contend with, so can't blame him for putting international career on hold

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/robert-snodgrass-opens-up-mentally-18953399

Edited by Bobby Russell's Lovechild
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2 minutes ago, Bobby Russell's Lovechild said:

I see that Snodgrass has supposedly said he wants to be considered again. He had a double bereavement and family illnesses to contend with, so can't blame him for putting international career on hold

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/robert-snodgrass-opens-up-mentally-18953399

Snodgrass was one of our main men a few years ago but I wouldn't start him now. He's not pacy out wide like fraser/forrest and we have far more options in the number 10 role now. 

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After watching MOTD  I wouldn't be in a hurry to give Hanley a recall to the squad .   He totally missed the flight of the ball on one cross almost resulting in a goal for Newcastle . Also it was too easy for the Newcastle player to score his goal with Hanley doing nothing to close him down . Not sure how he is captain of Norwich . I think we have better options in central defence to be honest . Only my opinion mind 

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12 minutes ago, noctonjock said:

After watching MOTD  I wouldn't be in a hurry to give Hanley a recall to the squad .   He totally missed the flight of the ball on one cross almost resulting in a goal for Newcastle . Also it was too easy for the Newcastle player to score his goal with Hanley doing nothing to close him down . Not sure how he is captain of Norwich . I think we have better options in central defence to be honest . Only my opinion mind 

Yeh he's not the best centre back but tbh who else do we have, is McKenna or souttar or bates any better. Alot of ppl hoped Hanley would mature into a good centre back as he was doing reasonably well in the English championship when he was 21 but he hasn't really improved a great deal since then. McKenna,bates and souttar are given the benefit of the doubt because they are only 22 and we are hopeful they will improve with age but as of now they are not any better than Hanley imo.

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Also watching old man's Match of the Day and looks like Villa were pretty unlucky yesterday.  A couple of individual errors for the Bournemouth goals, Bournemouth didn't appear to do much else although they probably should've had a penalty close to the end.

A couple of good shots from distance from McGinn, one well saved and the other just wide.  

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19 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

Yeh he's not the best centre back but tbh who else do we have, is McKenna or souttar or bates any better. Alot of ppl hoped Hanley would mature into a good centre back as he was doing reasonably well in the English championship when he was 21 but he hasn't really improved a great deal since then. McKenna,bates and souttar are given the benefit of the doubt because they are only 22 and we are hopeful they will improve with age but as of now they are not any better than Hanley imo.

I think you're probably right.  At 21 Hanley didn't look like the he was the finished article, at 27 he is the finished article but still has a lot of the weaknesses he had at 21.

Probably better for us to focus on the likes of McKenna, etc., as young prospects with Mulgrew or Berra as an experienced head alongside to help them along. 

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3 minutes ago, aaid said:

I think you're probably right.  At 21 Hanley didn't look like the he was the finished article, at 27 he is the finished article but still has a lot of the weaknesses he had at 21.

Probably better for us to focus on the likes of McKenna, etc., as young prospects with Mulgrew or Berra as an experienced head alongside to help them along. 

I'm open to Hanley, remember Graham Alexander, he never became a good defender till later on and ended up with over 50 caps

If he has a great season we should rule hanley out. McKenna has regressed, soutar is shite and mulgrew is 565 years old

Edited by vanderark14
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7 minutes ago, aaid said:

I think you're probably right.  At 21 Hanley didn't look like the he was the finished article, at 27 he is the finished article but still has a lot of the weaknesses he had at 21.

Probably better for us to focus on the likes of McKenna, etc., as young prospects with Mulgrew or Berra as an experienced head alongside to help them along. 

If Hanley has a good season in the epl then we would silly not to include him in the squad as he is only 27 which is relatively young for a centre back and he should be coming into his peak years soon. 

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6 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

If Hanley has a good season in the epl then we would silly not to include him in the squad as he is only 27 which is relatively young for a centre back and he should be coming into his peak years soon. 

Have you ever seen him play? He is dung

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24 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

I'm open to Hanley, remember Graham Alexander, he never became a good defender till later on and ended up with over 50 caps

If he has a great season we should rule hanley out. McKenna has regressed, soutar is shite and mulgrew is 565 years old

 

15 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

If Hanley has a good season in the epl then we would silly not to include him in the squad as he is only 27 which is relatively young for a centre back and he should be coming into his peak years soon. 

The word "If" is doing a lot of heavy lifting in these two posts - I assume VDA14 means we shouldn't rule him out.

In no circumstances whatsoever in football is 27 considered young.  Do you think that Grant Hanley will suddenly develop into a international centre back when the last six years have demonstrated that that wasn't likely to happen.

As for Graham Alexander - and I have a l lot of time for him - the reason he didn't get capped - or at least become a fixture in the team until he was older was because Craig Brown tended to play with wing backs rather than full backs and because Berti Vogts who did play full backs thought Maurice Ross was a better option than Alexander..

 

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Infact if you look at the careers of many epl centre backs, guys like Shane duffy, Ben mee, Craig cathcart, James tarkowski. They all served their time in the English championship and didn't really play epl til their mid twenties often being 26 before they made the step up. Perhaps as a support we have been a tad harsh on Hanley as he maybe shouldn't have been our main centre back during his young years when he was developing. We also had some absolute howling managers through that time where very few players came out with any real credit. Of course some will take this as me advocating Hanley as a good centre back (i am not btw)but reality is he's probably not worse than any other centre backs we have and is coming into his best years. When was the last time we had a centre back playing epl football. I can only think of Berra or Hanley himself when he was at Blackburn. Anyways it should be interesting to see how he gets on this season.

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1 minute ago, aaid said:

 

The word "If" is doing a lot of heavy lifting in these two posts - I assume VDA14 means we shouldn't rule him out.

In no circumstances whatsoever in football is 27 considered young.  Do you think that Grant Hanley will suddenly develop into a international centre back when the last six years have demonstrated that that wasn't likely to happen.

As for Graham Alexander - and I have a l lot of time for him - the reason he didn't get capped - or at least become a fixture in the team until he was older was because Craig Brown tended to play with wing backs rather than full backs and because Berti Vogts who did play full backs thought Maurice Ross was a better option than Alexander..

 

I said relatively young, centre backs don't really come into their best years until their late twenties with many being 26 or 27 before they play at top levels. This is because it's a position that relies on experience as opposed to just raw technical ability. It's a position where you have to be able to read the game and anticipate what's about to happen. This comes with experience and is often why lots of epl centre backs don't step up to epl level til their mid twenties. Anyways I don't want to come across as singing Hanley's praises as I don't particularly rate him very highly but your analysis of he's dung is just lazy and doesn't take into consideration that we have no other options at centre back which are better.

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1 minute ago, mccaughey85 said:

Infact if you look at the careers of many epl centre backs, guys like Shane duffy, Ben mee, Craig cathcart, James tarkowski. They all served their time in the English championship and didn't really play epl til their mid twenties often being 26 before they made the step up. Perhaps as a support we have been a tad harsh on Hanley as he maybe shouldn't have been our main centre back during his young years when he was developing. We also had some absolute howling managers through that time where very few players came out with any real credit. Of course some will take this as me advocating Hanley as a good centre back (i am not btw)but reality is he's probably not worse than any other centre backs we have and is coming into his best years. When was the last time we had a centre back playing epl football. I can only think of Berra or Hanley himself when he was at Blackburn. Anyways it should be interesting to see how he gets on this season.

The four players you mentioned are all epl centre backs by virtue of being promoted with the teams they played for.  Now to be fair to them, they've stuck in the division for 2-3 years and haven't looked out of place and that is very much to their credit.   That's the situation that Hanley finds himself in now and good luck to him.

The difference though is that if you look at the players you mention they generally have been solid picks up until throughout their career, ie. they've played a lot for the any teams they've played with and their careers have generally had an upward path.  It looks as though their careers have followed the path of the clubs that they play for, a combination of both club and player being able to go to the next level.

Hanley's career on the other hand doesn't have the same feel about.    Broke through early on into a Blackburn Rovers team that was on the slide, played a lot for them - none of Blackburn's problems would be attributable to Hanley, BTW.   A move to Newcastle that was pretty disastrous.     Barely played for Norwich last season - although he was injured for most of the season, tbf.   It just doesn't feel to me that he's first choice for his position at Norwich and is probably only playing as their first choice centre halves are injured.

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2 minutes ago, aaid said:

The four players you mentioned are all epl centre backs by virtue of being promoted with the teams they played for.  Now to be fair to them, they've stuck in the division for 2-3 years and haven't looked out of place and that is very much to their credit.   That's the situation that Hanley finds himself in now and good luck to him.

The difference though is that if you look at the players you mention they generally have been solid picks up until throughout their career, ie. they've played a lot for the any teams they've played with and their careers have generally had an upward path.  It looks as though their careers have followed the path of the clubs that they play for, a combination of both club and player being able to go to the next level.

Hanley's career on the other hand doesn't have the same feel about.    Broke through early on into a Blackburn Rovers team that was on the slide, played a lot for them - none of Blackburn's problems would be attributable to Hanley, BTW.   A move to Newcastle that was pretty disastrous.     Barely played for Norwich last season - although he was injured for most of the season, tbf.   It just doesn't feel to me that he's first choice for his position at Norwich and is probably only playing as their first choice centre halves are injured.

Well my point was more that we have to see if Hanley can do well this season and become a mainstay in the epl, that was all really. The guys I mentioned were all in the same boat as Hanley to a certain degree as in the played championship football in their early twenties. You are right that he's only playing because of injuries but that's how it goes, if he plays well then he will get more chances if not it will be back to the championship one way or other. My other point was that he's worth a place in the squad as he's not any worse than our other centre backs which really highlights how poor we are in that position.

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13 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

I said relatively young, centre backs don't really come into their best years until their late twenties with many being 26 or 27 before they play at top levels. This is because it's a position that relies on experience as opposed to just raw technical ability. It's a position where you have to be able to read the game and anticipate what's about to happen. This comes with experience and is often why lots of epl centre backs don't step up to epl level til their mid twenties. Anyways I don't want to come across as singing Hanley's praises as I don't particularly rate him very highly but your analysis of he's dung is just lazy and doesn't take into consideration that we have no other options at centre back which are better.

For all players their peak is probably between 25-30.  That's where the balance lies between experience and fitness.   Players don't go from being bang average to world beaters though.  It's a general progression.

The reason why players don't tend to step up until their mid-twenties either at club or international level is that when they are say 23 - unless they are an exceptional talent - there is probably someone at 28 in their position.  When they become 25, that other player is 30 and over the previous couple of seasons has been replaced by the - now - 25 year old.   People often use Colin Hendry as an example as he wasn't capped until he was something like 26 or 27.   Colin Hendry was probably good enough to play for Scotland when he was 22, the reason he didn't was that we had Richard Gough, Alex McLeish, Alan McLaren, Dave McPherson and Craig Levein in front of him.

We do have other options at centre back - they aren't particularly good tbf - but I never buy the argument that we should select player 'X' because player 'Y' - who is currently in the squad *isn't any better*.   If they are demonstrably better then so be it.   It's worth going with the younger guys in the hope that they get better and will benefit from the experience, they might and that's where we were with Grant Hanley 5-6 years ago.

Lets face it, this is all off the back of Norwich beating Newcastle - who have to stand a very good chance of being relegated this season.

 

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On 8/16/2019 at 8:58 PM, ceudmilefailte said:

Karlan Grant up front for Huddersfield against Fulham tonight, 2 goals in two games this season and  and 4 in 9 starts in EPL last year for the worst team in the league.

That probably makes him our best forward, if Clarke gets in touch.

He actually qualified for Scotland? Scored some goals in premier league aswell last season, including equaliser v Man. United.

He's very much the bright spark in a terrible Huddersfield side that could get relegated again.

Liam Lindsey must also surely get a call up at last.

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14 minutes ago, aaid said:

For all players their peak is probably between 25-30.  That's where the balance lies between experience and fitness.   Players don't go from being bang average to world beaters though.  It's a general progression.

The reason why players don't tend to step up until their mid-twenties either at club or international level is that when they are say 23 - unless they are an exceptional talent - there is probably someone at 28 in their position.  When they become 25, that other player is 30 and over the previous couple of seasons has been replaced by the - now - 25 year old.   People often use Colin Hendry as an example as he wasn't capped until he was something like 26 or 27.   Colin Hendry was probably good enough to play for Scotland when he was 22, the reason he didn't was that we had Richard Gough, Alex McLeish, Alan McLaren, Dave McPherson and Craig Levein in front of him.

We do have other options at centre back - they aren't particularly good tbf - but I never buy the argument that we should select player 'X' because player 'Y' - who is currently in the squad *isn't any better*.   If they are demonstrably better then so be it.   It's worth going with the younger guys in the hope that they get better and will benefit from the experience, they might and that's where we were with Grant Hanley 5-6 years ago.

Lets face it, this is all off the back of Norwich beating Newcastle - who have to stand a very good chance of being relegated this season.

 

I'm clinging to the hope we find a defender from somewhere mate, whether that's hanley becoming alex mcleish or the emergence of a youngster, I'm clinging to it.😂😂

A striker would be nice too

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