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Ryan Fredericks


Burj_Alba

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5 minutes ago, ONeils4oyarder said:

Whether we can attribute the loss of goals to these two is one thing, but I'd like to think we want better in a pretty key position. 

Aye, ofc we want better if every position if we can get it.
From my point of view, if you have to have one player who is 'weaker' than the others, then right back is probably where i'd want them. Wouldn't want a weak forward, as we need to win games to get anywhere and draws will kill us. Midfield we really need to compete. Keeper is vital. So of the defense, the right side is probably the best place to have a weaker player, given that generally there are less left footed players than right and so a lot of nations will have a weaker left winger than right winger (there's exceptions ofc).

Anyway, I was only really calling you up on "our real achillies heel", which i thought was unfair given the stats.

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28 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

He’s 26 and played 15 EPL games, hardly the stuff of legends.

And he’s English.

No one's getting really excited tbf. He would be an upgrade on our options especially if he continues playing epl next season. I hope he decides to play for us as we don't have alot of good options at rightback.

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1 hour ago, mccaughey85 said:

No one's getting really excited tbf. He would be an upgrade on our options especially if he continues playing epl next season. I hope he decides to play for us as we don't have alot of good options at rightback.

Remains to be seen how much of an upgrade he would actually be, more often than not these guys who’s qualify through the Granny rule have questionable commitment, even next to the rest of the squad. 

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10 hours ago, Burj_Alba said:

Hope Clarke is not going to follow the granny route so favoured by Levein. But needs must...., a top division right back.

Would give O'Donnell time to see what he can do under Clarke before jumping in.

Interesting he is not in the squad for the double header, maybe he is waiting to see if he can replace Trippier, Alexander Arnold or Walker first.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/steve-clarke-targets-ryan-fredericks-16249540

Even if Clarke had talked Fredericks into joining us before naming his squad, they would still have had to wait several weeks for FIFA (or UEFA) to process application to change nationality and officially declare for another. They'll also have to go and provide copies of all the birth and marriage certificates to prove that Frederick's parent or grandparent by whom he qualifies really was born in Scotland.

I'm not usually one for granny rule players but I think I'd make an exception here. We need right backs.

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O'Donnell should be in for the next two matches as we have Cyprus who we should beat and a free hit against Belgium. O'Donnell seems to like playing for Clarke ( a sort of mentor ) and if Stevie gets the best out of him then best of all worlds. Otherwise Fredericks for the September matches??

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6 hours ago, andyD said:

I'm not sure it's as bad as you make out. We aren't shipping goals because of the right back.

Looking at the Khazak game..
1st goal - Shinnie steps up to play his man offside, but Bates is still deeper and plays him on. Nothing to do with Palmer.
2nd goal - No pressure in midfield from McGregor means the guy has all day to slot the pass inside Shinnie who's wrong-footed. Nothing to do with Palmer.
3rd goal - McKenna just doesn't win the header. Simple as. Could Palmer and McGinn have closed the guy down quicker.. maybe, i guess. But he crosses from very deep.

Israel (home)..
1.. Long ranger from Kayal, McGregor not fussed to close him down.
2.. Another long ranger, again McGregor.. out of position, gets beat and then lets him go.

Portugal..
1st.. Robertson lets his man get infront of him, trying to shield it to let it run across him, when he should be dealing with it instead. Should O'Donnell have stopped the cross? You can say so, but we were doubled up on Bruma for a reason, he'd been a nightmare up to that point. Maybe if McGinn had bothered to run the 5 yard to be the 2nd man on Bruma then O'Donnell could have gone out. But he didn't, so..
2nd.. Was all-round chaos in defense. Portugal free-kick. We have 4 men doing nothing in the middle and Portugal have 3 men at the back post lining up to knock it in. O'Donnell's the only guy competing with them, so would be very harsh to blame him, given that he's dealing with his own man and two more than other defenders have let go.
3rd.. Hendry gives it away in midfield, and they counter quickly for Bruma to finish well. O'Donnell stranded up the pitch by Hendry giving it away.

Israel (away)..
1.. Russell lets his man go. Robertson should do better picking him up but i think tried to play offside.
2.. Cross from just outside the area with no pressure from Robertson or Russell. Tierney slices it into his own net.

Belgium.. we played with a back 3, but let's assume Fraser is teh right back.
1.. McGinn falls asleep and hands them the ball on the edge of our area.
2.. Fraser's tracking Carrasco, who slips it to Hazard who should have been picked up by McDonald. Fraser tries to get there, but can't.
3.. Horrific pass from Mulgrew sets up a clinical counter.
4.. Ryan Jack made to look a fool holding onto the ball too long and they again counter quickly and clinically.

Mexico.. cross from their right, not dealt with in the middle. Hendry, McGeough, McLean all failing to pick men up.

Peru..
1.. Mulgrew has it handled, but lunacy from Archer results in a pen.
2.. O'Donnell correctly positioned to block the cross. Mulgrew or McGinn have to step onto the free man, but both just ball watch.

Costa Rica..
1.. Paterson's marking Colindres. Cairney lets Oviedo run away from him for no reason, and Hanley and McKenna are both marking nothing in the middle, so the striker is free to knock it in.

 

So what was the last goal that was due to the right back? Cos none of the last 18 were due to the right back.

Seems to me that our defensive problems are mainly to do with workrate and organisation of the central defenders and central midfield. I get that Palmer and O'Donnell aren't popular, exciting big names.. But Robertson and Tierney have been responsible for more goals against since Strachan left. While it'd be nice to have someone with the quality of Fredricks, right back certainly isn't the problem in terms of us keeping a clean sheet for the last few years.

Really silly to analyse anyone's performance on goals conceded only.

How about the times our right back got easily dribbled past but the left winger was greedy and should have squared it to the man open, or when the right back was out of position allowing a striker through but fluffed his lines, or when an awful pass directly to an opposition's player resulted in a brilliant save from our keeper, or when the right back should have stepped up to play offside...etc. (these are all hypothetical extreme examples) 

What I'm getting at is that the right back might have caused more big chances to be conceded than any other player but by luck we didn't lose a goal.

And this isn't mentioning the contribution going forward. Which clearly O'Donnell and Palmer have been weak at for Scotland. 

 

Edited by Super_Scotlandfan
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44 minutes ago, Burj_Alba said:

O'Donnell should be in for the next two matches as we have Cyprus who we should beat and a free hit against Belgium. O'Donnell seems to like playing for Clarke ( a sort of mentor ) and if Stevie gets the best out of him then best of all worlds. Otherwise Fredericks for the September matches??

Where have I heard that before?

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What no one's mentioned is this: if we get Fredericks and Steer tied up (assuming he stays in the EPL) then we could have 7 EPL regulars, all playing in the strongest league in Europe (and don't give me ant arguments here, 4 finalists in the major Euro competitions says otherwise).

Viz Steer, Fredericks, Robertson. Armstrong, McTominay, McGinn and Fraser.

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28 minutes ago, Third Lanark said:

What no one's mentioned is this: if we get Fredericks and Steer tied up (assuming he stays in the EPL) then we could have 7 EPL regulars, all playing in the strongest league in Europe (and don't give me ant arguments here, 4 finalists in the major Euro competitions says otherwise).

Viz Steer, Fredericks, Robertson. Armstrong, McTominay, McGinn and Fraser.

Be surprised if Steer gets a look in once Nyland is back and I cant really see how Armstrong is going to become anything other than a squad player.

We have had a lot more EPL players available in the past. Big difference this time is that two maybe three are top quality 

You forgot Hanley and that is the one position we need to find players good enough to play in the EPL, a striker would help too.

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Unlikely to get a game for England. Great, maybe he'll consider us as a second choice then.  :rolleyes:  I'd rather play the right-back from Elgin City (assuming he's Scottish of course!).

Fck all this "needs must" garbage. This is the SCOTLAND international fitba team, not England E or F and this granny rule has brought us nothing but utter sh*te that gets found out sooner or later, usually sooner.

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4 minutes ago, daviebee said:

Unlikely to get a game for England. Great, maybe he'll consider us as a second choice then.  :rolleyes:  I'd rather play the right-back from Elgin City (assuming he's Scottish of course!).

Fck all this "needs must" garbage. This is the SCOTLAND international fitba team, not England E or F and this granny rule has brought us nothing but utter sh*te that gets found out sooner or later, usually sooner.

"Granny rule" player James Morrison has shown tons more commitment and enthusiasm for Scotland then some of these born and bred Scottish bravehearts your on about.

Did you see him celebrate scoring against England, he was ready to take off into orbit !

And we've still to find out if Fredericks will even officially declare for us or not. Nothing has been confirmed yet.

Edited by ErsatzThistle
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4 minutes ago, ErsatzThistle said:

"Granny rule" player James Morrison has shown tons more commitment and enthusiasm for Scotland then some of these born and bred Scottish bravehearts your on about.

Did you see him celebrate scoring against England, he was ready to take off into orbit !

And we've still to find out if Fredericks will even officially declare for us or not. Nothing has been confirmed yet.

The James Morrison that played for England at every level up to U21 and who said he "didn't feel particularly Scottish"? If you want a team filled with "eligibles" then go knock yourself out.   👍  I'd prefer not to, but maybe that's just me.

I'm not sure what bravehearts I'm on about though. Can't find anything in my post about them.

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8 minutes ago, daviebee said:

The James Morrison that played for England at every level up to U21 and who said he "didn't feel particularly Scottish"? If you want a team filled with "eligibles" then go knock yourself out.   👍  I'd prefer not to, but maybe that's just me.

I'm not sure what bravehearts I'm on about though. Can't find anything in my post about them.

Aye, the James Morrison that had a good record of turning up for games, never moaned if he was benched, sang the national anthem and never failed to give it 100% on the pitch. That's what we're all looking for in a Scotland player and that's exactly what we got in James Morrison. 

You should read Morrison's interview from last year about his international career. He's extremely proud to call himself a Scot and bloody loves the TA. 

Btw he never played for their under 21 team.

And I repeat, Morrison turned up for games regularly, he always tried hard on the pitch, he wore our jersey with pride (forty six times) and that's more than can be said for a few Scots born players. How do we know Ryan Fredericks won't turn out like Morrison if he declares ? I'm willing to give Fredericks a chance if he does.

Are you someone that wants to go back to the days of "birth country only" and would have denied Richard Gough, Shaun Maloney and Kieran Tierney the chance to play for Scotland ?

As it happens I'm certainly not keen on filling the team up with ten or twelve "granny rule" players but once in a blue moon I would support calling up one if our choices in a certain position (in this case that of right back) were poor. 

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8 hours ago, ErsatzThistle said:

Aye, the James Morrison that had a good record of turning up for games, never moaned if he was benched, sang the national anthem and never failed to give it 100% on the pitch. That's what we're all looking for in a Scotland player and that's exactly what we got in James Morrison. 

You should read Morrison's interview from last year about his international career. He's extremely proud to call himself a Scot and bloody loves the TA. 

Btw he never played for their under 21 team.

And I repeat, Morrison turned up for games regularly, he always tried hard on the pitch, he wore our jersey with pride (forty six times) and that's more than can be said for a few Scots born players. How do we know Ryan Fredericks won't turn out like Morrison if he declares ? I'm willing to give Fredericks a chance if he does.

Are you someone that wants to go back to the days of "birth country only" and would have denied Richard Gough, Shaun Maloney and Kieran Tierney the chance to play for Scotland ?

As it happens I'm certainly not keen on filling the team up with ten or twelve "granny rule" players but once in a blue moon I would support calling up one if our choices in a certain position (in this case that of right back) were poor. 

Well that says it all - "a Scotland player" NOT "a Scotsman".

You're right about James Morrison. He didn't play for their U21's. Just U17/18/19/20 so I suppose that makes it ok even though he chose us cos he thought his "opportunities with England would be limited".

To answer your question - no, I don't want to go back to birth country only. I just don't want my nation being some CV whore's second choice. This Fredericks guy's agent wouldn't be the first to go back to his club attempting to renegotiate his contract cos his client "is an international player now".

As for yourself, if you're happy with one then you should be happy with a team full of them. What's your cut-off point? I want to watch international fitba with our best 11 against theirs, not some extension of the club game.

If it's a choice between Stephen O' Donnell (who gets a rough time on here for reasons unknown to me) and your new English wonderboy then the shirt should be on the Scotsman's back every single time.

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2 minutes ago, Bobby Russell's Lovechild said:

According to today's paper, they have to find out if he qualifies through a grandfather he's never met

Fkin ridiculous and makes a total mockery of the concept of international fitba.

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9 hours ago, ErsatzThistle said:

Aye, the James Morrison that had a good record of turning up for games, never moaned if he was benched, sang the national anthem and never failed to give it 100% on the pitch. That's what we're all looking for in a Scotland player and that's exactly what we got in James Morrison. 

You should read Morrison's interview from last year about his international career. He's extremely proud to call himself a Scot and bloody loves the TA. 

Btw he never played for their under 21 team.

And I repeat, Morrison turned up for games regularly, he always tried hard on the pitch, he wore our jersey with pride (forty six times) and that's more than can be said for a few Scots born players. How do we know Ryan Fredericks won't turn out like Morrison if he declares ? I'm willing to give Fredericks a chance if he does.

Are you someone that wants to go back to the days of "birth country only" and would have denied Richard Gough, Shaun Maloney and Kieran Tierney the chance to play for Scotland ?

As it happens I'm certainly not keen on filling the team up with ten or twelve "granny rule" players but once in a blue moon I would support calling up one if our choices in a certain position (in this case that of right back) were poor. 

Classic straw man argument anytime someone mentions English guys it’s always a matter of time before Gough and Maloney are brought up 

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19 hours ago, ParisInAKilt said:

He’s 26 and played 15 EPL games, hardly the stuff of legends.

And he’s English.

That's still 15 more than O'Donnell and Palmer have made between them (or are ever likely to) and he's a similar age to them.

14 hours ago, Super_Scotlandfan said:

Really silly to analyse anyone's performance on goals conceded only.

How about the times our right back got easily dribbled past but the left winger was greedy and should have squared it to the man open, or when the right back was out of position allowing a striker through but fluffed his lines, or when an awful pass directly to an opposition's player resulted in a brilliant save from our keeper, or when the right back should have stepped up to play offside...etc. (these are all hypothetical extreme examples) 

What I'm getting at is that the right back might have caused more big chances to be conceded than any other player but by luck we didn't lose a goal.

And this isn't mentioning the contribution going forward. Which clearly O'Donnell and Palmer have been weak at for Scotland. 

 

O'Donnell's performance against Israel and Palmer's against Kazakhstan were two of the worst I've ever seen put in by Scotland players in recent years, and that's saying something!

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14 hours ago, Third Lanark said:

What no one's mentioned is this: if we get Fredericks and Steer tied up (assuming he stays in the EPL) then we could have 7 EPL regulars, all playing in the strongest league in Europe (and don't give me ant arguments here, 4 finalists in the major Euro competitions says otherwise).

Viz Steer, Fredericks, Robertson. Armstrong, McTominay, McGinn and Fraser.

Add Kenny McLean and John Fleck to that list.

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15 hours ago, Super_Scotlandfan said:

Really silly to analyse anyone's performance on goals conceded only.

I think it's a fair measure when they're being accuse of being the team's achilles heel.

If they were our one point of vulnerability then I think it's fair to assume that some evidence for that would exist in terms of goals against over the last dozen games. No such evidence exists.

Are they the greatest right backs we've ever seen? Certainly not.
But are they the vulnerability in our side that saw us struggle under McLeish? Certainly not.

That was the point I was making, and the original maker of the point seems to have accepted the evidence.
You seem to be arguing some other point with yourself.

Have fun with that.

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