ONeils4oyarder Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 Grant Hanley gets a raw deal from the fans...he is no where close to being as bad as he is made out to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RightPeg Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 16 minutes ago, ONeils4oyarder said: Grant Hanley gets a raw deal from the fans...he is no where close to being as bad as he is made out to be. Hanley is like our Phil Jones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASTA Mick Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 27 minutes ago, ONeils4oyarder said: Grant Hanley gets a raw deal from the fans...he is no where close to being as bad as he is made out to be. I agree. Played at a higher level than most of our other CBs, has a good amount of experience and getting close to his peak. Could be playing in the EPL next season too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanderer Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 30 minutes ago, ONeils4oyarder said: Grant Hanley gets a raw deal from the fans...he is no where close to being as bad as he is made out to be. Agree. People seem to think he is a lot older than he really is, as it feels like he has been around since year dot. Just unlucky that he move to Newcastle never worked out, and he has struggled to get into the Norwich team this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
er yir macaroon Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 20 minutes ago, wanderer said: Agree. People seem to think he is a lot older than he really is, as it feels like he has been around since year dot. Just unlucky that he move to Newcastle never worked out, and he has struggled to get into the Norwich team this season. He’s been injured for ages, and as far as I recall, is Norwich captain and highly thought of there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 If Hanley gets a run at EPL level and performs well it'll be hard to ignore him, as mentioned Weir and Hendry didn't become internationals until their late 20s and they are probably our best defenders from the past 25 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bino's Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 Has there been any pull outs yet Other than the 2 that decided to schedule their weddings If not this could be a modern day record Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Pete Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 13 minutes ago, Bino's said: Has there been any pull outs yet Other than the 2 that decided to schedule their weddings If not this could be a modern day record Don’t think so. It’s amazing the difference clubs having no games for a few weeks makes. Scotland having a new manager to impress helps as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bino's Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 9 minutes ago, Texas Pete said: Don’t think so. It’s amazing the difference clubs having no games for a few weeks makes. Scotland having a new manager to impress helps as well. Mind you, Fletcher is still 'managing' his injury is he not Which should just equal, retired Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyD Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 18 hours ago, Bino's said: Mind you, Fletcher is still 'managing' his injury is he not Which should just equal, retired Great idea... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bino's Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, andyD said: Great idea... You're right It's a better idea to let him fuck us about forever Edited June 5, 2019 by Bino's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyD Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 17 hours ago, Bino's said: It's a better idea to let him fuck us about forever You have no idea why he's not in the squad, but you want to make a judgement anyway. Making calls without sufficient information is a stupid thing to do. But you do you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bino's Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 27 minutes ago, andyD said: You have no idea why he's not in the squad, but you want to make a judgement anyway. Making calls without sufficient information is a stupid thing to do. But you do you. He plays every week for his club but hasn't made any of our squads this year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 1 hour ago, Bino's said: He plays every week for his club but hasn't made any of our squads this year It will be interesting to see how Clarke manages his situation. I would be quite happy if he just says nothing and quietly never picks him again. For me, it's not just his unreliability that's the problem. Even when he is available he just isn't good enough. He has had his chances, give somebody else a go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyD Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 2 hours ago, Bino's said: He plays every week for his club but hasn't made any of our squads this year And why was that? I'm willing to put money on the fact that you don't know, but you're gonna guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 55 minutes ago, andyD said: And why was that? I'm willing to put money on the fact that you don't know, but you're gonna guess. Does it matter? If he doesn't want to play for Scotland then fair enough, good luck to him. Time to give somebody else a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyD Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 1 hour ago, Orraloon said: Does it matter? If he doesn't want to play for Scotland then fair enough, good luck to him. Time to give somebody else a chance. Who's said he doesn't want to play for Scotland? It's likely that he's been carrying an injury (god knows the entire rest of the Wednesday squad has been) and he needs a full summer to try and sort that out. His game's never been about pace, so he could maybe go for another 2-3 years, and wants to sort it out to make that happen. Point is we don't know. So saying 'bin him for turning his back on us' is ridiculous, cos no one knows it that's what happened. If he's refused a call or retired, I imagine the manager would have mentioned it. Don't even know why this is worthy of debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bino's Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 2 hours ago, andyD said: And why was that? I'm willing to put money on the fact that you don't know, but you're gonna guess. He is managing an injury and will start games but come off circa 70 mins But he does this every week and has done all season When it comes to us though he just can't play What about agreeing to play one of the two games like Davies is for Wales He, no doubt under pressure from his gash club, are taking the rip out of us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyD Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 1 minute ago, Bino's said: He is managing an injury and will start games but come off circa 70 mins But he does this every week and has done all season When it comes to us though he just can't play What about agreeing to play one of the two games like Davies is for Wales He, no doubt under pressure from his gash club, are taking the rip out of us Assuming you're right... which is by no means certain given that he played the full 90 in two games in the final month of the season, including after the playoffs were not longer possible... then it makes sense not to play for us, doesn't it? Wednesday's season finished over a month ago. If he were to play in these two games he'd have to be in full match training for an additional 5-6 weeks. Given they'll probably return for pre-season in early July, that's more than half the off season for Championship clubs. If you've got a niggling injury that you need to get rid off, then you often need a period of rest. He wouldn't get that if he played in these fixtures. So makes 100% sense for him to rest for this double header and be full fit for the next season and full fit for the three double headers before the end of the year. Every player and manager has to make a judgement call when it comes to injuries. Is it worth risking them? Is only 80% of that player enough? Are we better off letting them get 100% for the more important games? We're likely to beat Cyprus and lose to Belgium with or without Fletch. But if playing him meant he carried this apparent injury into next season and so was still only a 70 minute player when the Russia games come around then that's bad for us, not to mention bad for him as the longer he goes without sorting his injury the more likely he is to do something worse. So why on earth, assuming your assumption is right, would you advocate binning him, for looking after his own body and sacrificing 2 games to be 100% for the next 6? It seems an utterly silly thing to say to me, but please help me understand your thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bino's Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 10 minutes ago, andyD said: Assuming you're right... which is by no means certain given that he played the full 90 in two games in the final month of the season, including after the playoffs were not longer possible... then it makes sense not to play for us, doesn't it? Wednesday's season finished over a month ago. If he were to play in these two games he'd have to be in full match training for an additional 5-6 weeks. Given they'll probably return for pre-season in early July, that's more than half the off season for Championship clubs. If you've got a niggling injury that you need to get rid off, then you often need a period of rest. He wouldn't get that if he played in these fixtures. So makes 100% sense for him to rest for this double header and be full fit for the next season and full fit for the three double headers before the end of the year. Every player and manager has to make a judgement call when it comes to injuries. Is it worth risking them? Is only 80% of that player enough? Are we better off letting them get 100% for the more important games? We're likely to beat Cyprus and lose to Belgium with or without Fletch. But if playing him meant he carried this apparent injury into next season and so was still only a 70 minute player when the Russia games come around then that's bad for us, not to mention bad for him as the longer he goes without sorting his injury the more likely he is to do something worse. So why on earth, assuming your assumption is right, would you advocate binning him, for looking after his own body and sacrificing 2 games to be 100% for the next 6? It seems an utterly silly thing to say to me, but please help me understand your thinking. It's too easy to say we're likely to do this that or the other thing without certain players We need all our players available not have them pick and choose games If the plethora that refused or pulled from the Kazak game had been there I think it would have been a different story Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyD Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 34 minutes ago, Bino's said: It's too easy to say we're likely to do this that or the other thing without certain players We need all our players available not have them pick and choose games If the plethora that refused or pulled from the Kazak game had been there I think it would have been a different story 'Have them' ? Thi sis the thing. You're assuming it was just Fletch saying "i'm not playing, cya." rather than a discussion between him and Clarke about how fit he was and how to manage that injury and whether he'd be fully fit for the Russia games if he played these two. This is what i've been saying all along, you're just deciding what reality is, when you don't actually know. Stop doing it, you look daft. As for the Khazak game.. Not sure I buy "we were under-strength" as an excuse for the result. We were only really 2 players off our best 11, right? Fraser and Robertson. No one was up for it and that's down to the manager. Don't think it much matters which players were or weren't there if not a single one performs at the required level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceudmilefailte Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 4 minutes ago, andyD said: As for the Khazak game.. Not sure I buy "we were under-strength" as an excuse for the result. We were only really 2 players off our best 11, right? Fraser and Robertson. No one was up for it and that's down to the manager. Don't think it much matters which players were or weren't there if not a single one performs at the required level. And Paterson, a damn site better than the muppet we had at right back that day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bino's Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 1 hour ago, andyD said: 'Have them' ? Thi sis the thing. You're assuming it was just Fletch saying "i'm not playing, cya." rather than a discussion between him and Clarke about how fit he was and how to manage that injury and whether he'd be fully fit for the Russia games if he played these two. This is what i've been saying all along, you're just deciding what reality is, when you don't actually know. Stop doing it, you look daft. As for the Khazak game.. Not sure I buy "we were under-strength" as an excuse for the result. We were only really 2 players off our best 11, right? Fraser and Robertson. No one was up for it and that's down to the manager. Don't think it much matters which players were or weren't there if not a single one performs at the required level. The players recently have been picking and choosing their games And it's cost us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 1 hour ago, Bino's said: It's too easy to say we're likely to do this that or the other thing without certain players We need all our players available not have them pick and choose games If the plethora that refused or pulled from the Kazak game had been there I think it would have been a different story That is exactly Clarke's biggest challenge. Can he convince the players that they really want to play for Scotland? I hope he does but I'm not holding my breath. McLeish got sacked on the back of that one disaster performance. Fair enough, he may be a shyte manager and deserved to get sacked. But the players need to take their share of the responsibility as well. Not just the players on the park, who were truly awful, but also the ones who decided that they didn't want to play. They need to take a long hard look at themselves in a mirror and decide if they really want to play at a major tournament. If they are not totally up for it then they should just concentrate on their club career and stop messing the manager about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyD Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 16 hours ago, Bino's said: The players recently have been picking and choosing their games And it's cost us You seem to be wildly missing the point, whether intentionally or otherwise. You've bored me either way, so i'll say it one last time. You say "we need our players available", and the Fletch situation is most likely "rest him now, so he can get properly fit and he's 100% for the 6 (more important) games later". It is exactly what you're asking for: "we need our players available". if you can't get that.. then... ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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