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Clake's first sqaud


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4 minutes ago, Dalgety Bay TA said:

I agree with you. And he is certainly a better option at RB, the position he plays week in week out, than some average central midfield player.

Anyone suggesting Ryan Jack plays RB ahead of him is firmly in the Bertie Vogts camp of sticking players in positions they are not used to playing.

We have, in the main, an average set of players. Lets not lessen their potential to perform and ability further by playing them in positions they are not used to playing.

I think most people are looking back at Ryan Jack's performance against the Netherlands where he performed very well at right back, up against Memphis Depay and co. That one performance was probably better than any of O'Donnells for Scotland and the less we talk about Palmers debut the better, albeit Ryan Jacks game was a friendly. I think all 3 there are roughly the same standard tbh. Tierney is our best Right Back

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3 minutes ago, bazmidd said:

I think most people are looking back at Ryan Jack's performance against the Netherlands where he performed very well at right back, up against Memphis Depay and co. That one performance was probably better than any of O'Donnells for Scotland and the less we talk about Palmers debut the better, albeit Ryan Jacks game was a friendly. I think all 3 there are roughly the same standard tbh. Tierney is our best Right Back

He was also a very good right back for the u21s.....albeit that was a few years ago now. It’s not a completely alien position to him.

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O'Donnell was probably one of the few success stories to come out of the Peru-Mexico tour, but since then its been so-so (though I thought he was really good in the Albania home game).

Nobody will know what he can offer better than Clarke, so no issue with him being in the squad, but being honest, if Patterson fit he is my preferred option, and while not a fan of playing him out of position, Tierney has shown he can play there without issue.

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26 minutes ago, Dalgety Bay TA said:

I agree with you. And he is certainly a better option at RB, the position he plays week in week out, than some average central midfield player.

Anyone suggesting Ryan Jack plays RB ahead of him is firmly in the Bertie Vogts camp of sticking players in positions they are not used to playing.

We have, in the main, an average set of players. Lets not lessen their potential to perform and ability further by playing them in positions they are not used to playing.

Some footballers are able to play competently in a number of positions, pigeon-holing players seems to be something that we do with players from a very young age.

 

Paul Lambert was an attacking midfielder for Motherwell...a few training sessions with Dortmund and they seen something in him that would turn him into one of the best holding midfielders in Europe. Thierry Henry was a winger before Arsene Wenger fired him up front. Vincent Kompany was a midfielder prior to becoming one of the best defenders about. Who would have thought Matt Ritchie could excel as a full-back?

 

A competent defensive central midfielder should be able to play full-back pretty comfortably, especially from a defensive point of view...Jack has played at right-back lots of times, and for me is a far more accomplished fitba' player than Stephen O'Donnell.

 

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1 hour ago, SWMM82 said:

Yeah that is true.....my point being that any decent left winger with pace will expose him badly.... he’s a carthorse when he runs!

Yep.

Israel's left wing-back (essentially a squad player for a so-so Bundesliga team by day) tore him to shreds when we played them over there. I dread to think what Hazard might do.

The trouble is, we've no one better.

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14 minutes ago, ONeils4oyarder said:

Some footballers are able to play competently in a number of positions, pigeon-holing players seems to be something that we do with players from a very young age.

 

Paul Lambert was an attacking midfielder for Motherwell...a few training sessions with Dortmund and they seen something in him that would turn him into one of the best holding midfielders in Europe. Thierry Henry was a winger before Arsene Wenger fired him up front. Vincent Kompany was a midfielder prior to becoming one of the best defenders about. Who would have thought Matt Ritchie could excel as a full-back?

 

A competent defensive central midfielder should be able to play full-back pretty comfortably, especially from a defensive point of view...Jack has played at right-back lots of times, and for me is a far more accomplished fitba' player than Stephen O'Donnell.

 

Matt ritchie is baws

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49 minutes ago, Kirk said:

he can go and get a gae for his country then, we have 2 far better left backs

I agree.

Why do we need Ritchie as a full back ? We have Robertson, Tierney, Taylor and Douglas to pick from.

We don't need him and he doesn't want to play for us anyway.

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18 hours ago, ONeils4oyarder said:

Some footballers are able to play competently in a number of positions, pigeon-holing players seems to be something that we do with players from a very young age.

 

Paul Lambert was an attacking midfielder for Motherwell...a few training sessions with Dortmund and they seen something in him that would turn him into one of the best holding midfielders in Europe. Thierry Henry was a winger before Arsene Wenger fired him up front. Vincent Kompany was a midfielder prior to becoming one of the best defenders about. Who would have thought Matt Ritchie could excel as a full-back?

 

A competent defensive central midfielder should be able to play full-back pretty comfortably, especially from a defensive point of view...Jack has played at right-back lots of times, and for me is a far more accomplished fitba' player than Stephen O'Donnell.

 

Dropping back from attacking mid to defensive mid because you don't have the pace to play attacking mid isn't a big jump, you are still playing in the centre of the park, just deeper.

Henry didn't make much of a position change, he always played coming in off the left, just a bit further forward when Arsene moved him.

Kompany again, played defensive mid, dropped back into the back four, not a massive change, again playing in the middle of the park, just a bit deeper.

Ritchie certainly hasn't "excelled" at full back, in fact he doesn't even play full back, he plays wing back as Newcastle play a back 3 so he doesn't have as many defensive duties as a normal full back. Which is a good thing as he is as slow as a week in the jail and would be a very weak link as part of a back 4.

There is a big difference between playing a decent holding role in the centre of the park and playing widest of a back 4 expected to cover a player like Hazard for example. The young lad at Arsenal showed the struggles of playing a midfielder at full back last night. Gary Holt under Vogts v Hungary (?) another example of why its not a good idea to stick a centre mid in at full back. 

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18 hours ago, ErsatzThistle said:

That's one player I hope Clarke will discard. Dreadful clogger.

He's a weird one. He's certainly not a dreadful clogger for his club. He's actually a decent passer of the ball and would often be the guy to start moves. He's a bit like Bannan in that he looks great at his club, but for some reason when he's pulled on the international shirt has looked like a different (far less good) player.

I don't blame anyone for not wanting to see McDonald or Bannan again.. especially given we have other quality options in that area of the pitch, but both have been good for years at club level. Makes me wonder if the change of manager might see us get more out of these two, not that we are likely to see them in a squad any time soon.

Basically just saying dont write anyone off, if there's a big difference between how they play for their club an dhow they've played for us in the past. Forrest is evidence of that.

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9 minutes ago, andyD said:

He's a weird one. He's certainly not a dreadful clogger for his club. He's actually a decent passer of the ball and would often be the guy to start moves. He's a bit like Bannan in that he looks great at his club, but for some reason when he's pulled on the international shirt has looked like a different (far less good) player.

I don't blame anyone for not wanting to see McDonald or Bannan again.. especially given we have other quality options in that area of the pitch, but both have been good for years at club level. Makes me wonder if the change of manager might see us get more out of these two, not that we are likely to see them in a squad any time soon.

Basically just saying dont write anyone off, if there's a big difference between how they play for their club an dhow they've played for us in the past. Forrest is evidence of that.

McDonald is a clogger. He has been dreadful in his games for Scotland. He also turns 31 this November.

He is no longer required. Neither is Bannan.

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2 minutes ago, ErsatzThistle said:

McDonald is a clogger. He has been dreadful in his games for Scotland. He also turns 31 this November.

He is no longer required. Neither is Bannan.

Well, the first sentance is straight up wrong.

The rest is probably accurate.

Well done for skipping a potentially interesting discussion tho.

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1 minute ago, andyD said:

Well, the first sentance is straight up wrong.

The rest is probably accurate.

Well done for skipping a potentially interesting discussion tho.

Write one of your trademark four thousand word posts in praise of Barry Bannan and Kevin McDonald then.

The title of this essay shall be - "Two Shite Players".

Time starts now ....

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2 hours ago, ONeils4oyarder said:

Yes...but all of that apart...Ryan Jack has played the position comfortably umpteen times throughout his career.

I assume thats for Aberdeen then as I am pretty sure he hasn't played there for Rangers? I haven't followed his career closely enough to know how often he has performed well at RB.

I still stand by my original point that the vast majority of our players are of average ability and moving them from the positions they are most comfortable playing week in week out can only diminish their performances. Would love to be proved wrong by Jack but for me, for the moment, I am would rather see a right back playing right back for us. 

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1 hour ago, ErsatzThistle said:

Write one of your trademark four thousand word posts in praise of Barry Bannan and Kevin McDonald then.

The title of this essay shall be - "Two Shite Players".

Time starts now ....

They're both decent enough players at a certain level, it's just that that level doesn't extend as high as international level. They're club players.

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