Clake's first sqaud

[ceudmilefailte]

8 minutes ago, er yir macaroon said:

If you think Robertson can’t defend  you can’t have watched the Champions League semi-final. Mental. 

I did't say he can't defend I said he wasn't strong enough defensively

It's easy to, pick out one example and suggest it proves a point.

Fair enough if you think over a season he has proven himself as a good defender, personally I don't see him as a great defensive player.

Very easy to argue that he doesn't make defensive mistakes as defending isn't his main purpose for Liverpool as he has other players to do that, for Scotland he has?????.

 

[ErsatzThistle]

20 hours ago, Toepoke said:

Callum McGregor said after the game today he's now looking forward to his holidays.

I suppose we should let him have his weekend in Millport 

[Texas Pete]

19 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said:

I did't say he can't defend I said he wasn't strong enough defensively

It's easy to, pick out one example and suggest it proves a point.

Fair enough if you think over a season he has proven himself as a good defender, personally I don't see him as a great defensive player.

Very easy to argue that he doesn't make defensive mistakes as defending isn't his main purpose for Liverpool as he has other players to do that, for Scotland he has?????.

 

You actually did say he can’t defend. 

[mrniaboc]

18 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said:

I did't say he can't defend I said he wasn't strong enough defensively

It's easy to, pick out one example and suggest it proves a point.

Fair enough if you think over a season he has proven himself as a good defender, personally I don't see him as a great defensive player.

Very easy to argue that he doesn't make defensive mistakes as defending isn't his main purpose for Liverpool as he has other players to do that, for Scotland he has?????.

 

You literally said "Robertson cant [sic] defend" in your previous post. Hahaha are you Chripper in disguise? 

Also, Robertson is fantastic defensively. That's not even up for debate. 

[ceudmilefailte]

22 minutes ago, Texas Pete said:

I think you might be confusing international class with elite international class. 

You don’t need to be playing in a top league to play for Albania, Lithuania or even Scotland. 

There are different classes of international football and we’re not in a very good one at the moment. 

Most teams ranked 50th or lower would love to have our players to choose from. We have good players playing in Scotland and England. We just need a bit of organisation and we will be beating the likes of Kazakhstan and Cyprus comfortably. We can then aim to compete with the likes of Russia etc and start challenging for qualification again. 

Not sure how many players are international class but going by qualification method probably, what 700-800?  are they all elite international class. I would say elite would need to be in the top 10-15 teams in Europe bar one or two who will get  there or were there in the past.

It's all up to Clarke which is why I said I was worried for him as I don't think we have the players.

[Texas Pete]

Just now, ceudmilefailte said:

Not sure how many players are international class but going by qualification method probably, what 700-800?  are they all elite international class. I would say elite would need to be in the top 10-15 teams in Europe bar one or two who will get  there or were there in the past.

It's all up to Clarke which is why I said I was worried for him as I don't think we have the players.

You’re right, we don’t have the players to qualify regularly or compete with the top nations. That’s the sad reality of it. 

What we do have is the players to compete for second place in our groups (if we perform to our best). Not necessarily for our current group of course due to our shite start. That’s why we sacked our manager. 

We certainly have the players to beat Finland at home next March. If we do that then we have a great chance of getting the monkey of qualifying off our back and we can hopefully kick on from there. 

[ceudmilefailte]

7 minutes ago, mrniaboc said:

You literally said "Robertson cant [sic] defend" in your previous post. Hahaha are you Chripper in disguise? 

Also, Robertson is fantastic defensively. That's not even up for debate. 

Did change from cant defend to not good defensively before any one had posted between the two posts so not really Cripper like. But I stand corrected.

All about opinions and I don't think defending is his strongest  point

 

[Texas Pete]

6 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said:

Did change from cant defend to not good defensively before any one had posted between the two posts so not really Cripper like. But I stand corrected.

All about opinions and I don't think defending is his strongest  point

 

It might not be his strongest point but that doesn’t mean he’s not good at it. 

We have one of the best left backs in Europe at the moment. He started the last Champions league final and barring some sort of catastrophe he’ll start this year’s final as well. He was only a bawhair from winning a league medal at one of the top leagues in the world. 

It takes a special kind of dour, negative person to find negativity in that but you’re doing a good job of it.  

[Hertsscot]

I think Robertson has improved massively defensively over the last few seasons, whether that's through coaching or experience. Saw him several times at Hull and seemed to me that he's cut out risky passes in his own half.

[ceudmilefailte]

9 minutes ago, Texas Pete said:

You’re right, we don’t have the players to qualify regularly or compete with the top nations. That’s the sad reality of it. 

What we do have is the players to compete for second place in our groups (if we perform to our best). Not necessarily for our current group of course due to our shite start. That’s why we sacked our manager. 

We certainly have the players to beat Finland at home next March. If we do that then we have a great chance of getting the monkey of qualifying off our back and we can hopefully kick on from there. 

Had a quick look at the Finland Team in the nations league qualifiers, Pukki in the Championship and the rest scattered to the winds of mediocrity in organised European football.

[Tartan Chris]

38 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said:

Not sure how many players are international class but going by qualification method probably, what 700-800?  are they all elite international class. I would say elite would need to be in the top 10-15 teams in Europe bar one or two who will get  there or were there in the past.

It's all up to Clarke which is why I said I was worried for him as I don't think we have the players.

International football is all about being solid and tough to play against if you're not one of the elite nations. Actually even some elite nations set up with defensive mindset. Look at Portugal in euro 2016 who had world class players in the final third but grinded out wins in the knock out rounds.

Look at how both Irish teams play. They lack quality in final third but can generally keep clean sheets home and away against the weaker teams in the group so that usually gets them in contention for play off birth. Wales have more quality but they also kept lots of clean sheets between 2014-16, they didn't concede a goal home or away to Belgium in euro 2016 qualifying. Dread to think how many is going to go in Scotland net in the two upcoming meetings.

Scotland in the mid to late 90s were a very hard team to score against, even in major tournaments.

The problem is the lack of good defenders atm. Guess you have to go with a young defence and just hope with experience they mature over time as happened with Wales although you go horror shows like in Kazakhstan.

When SC was quoted the other week he actually named checked  Ryan Jack when mentioning good young Scottish players around so he's a cert for the squad and can see him playing right back.

 

[Tartan Chris]

1 minute ago, ceudmilefailte said:

Had a quick look at the Finland Team in the nations league qualifiers, Pukki in the Championship and the rest scattered to the winds of mediocrity in organised European football.

Finland is on an upward curve though when you look at their results in last 18 months. Iceland don't have many top level players either when you look at their regular squad but they all know their system and have confidence in each other. They rarely also have mass call offs which has been a major problem with Scotland NT for a while and will only stop when results improve.

 

[ceudmilefailte]

19 minutes ago, Tartan Chris said:

International football is all about being solid and tough to play against if you're not one of the elite nations. Actually even some elite nations set up with defensive mindset. Look at Portugal in euro 2016 who had world class players in the final third but grinded out wins in the knock out rounds.

Look at how both Irish teams play. They lack quality in final third but can generally keep clean sheets home and away against the weaker teams in the group so that usually gets them in contention for play off birth. Wales have more quality but they also kept lots of clean sheets between 2014-16, they didn't concede a goal home or away to Belgium in euro 2016 qualifying. Dread to think how many is going to go in Scotland net in the two upcoming meetings.

Scotland in the mid to late 90s were a very hard team to score against, even in major tournaments.

The problem is the lack of good defenders atm. Guess you have to go with a young defence and just hope with experience they mature over time as happened with Wales although you go horror shows like in Kazakhstan.

When SC was quoted the other week he actually named checked  Ryan Jack when mentioning good young Scottish players around so he's a cert for the squad and can see him playing right back.

 

I suppose compared with his time at Kilmarnock a  27 year old Ryan Jack is pretty young.

 

46 minutes ago, Texas Pete said:

It might not be his strongest point but that doesn’t mean he’s not good at it. 

We have one of the best left backs in Europe at the moment. He started the last Champions league final and barring some sort of catastrophe he’ll start this year’s final as well. He was only a bawhair from winning a league medal at one of the top leagues in the world. 

It takes a special kind of dour, negative person to find negativity in that but you’re doing a good job of it.  

I'm not really that dour or negative I just don't want people getting their hopes up.

Any way I agree with what you both say about management and organisation being the most important thing for a group of limited players.

On second thoughts every one I know thinks I am a Negative Nancy so you could be right

[er yir macaroon]

As ever, I am optimistic about our prospects and admittedly, as ever, I see those improving in a year or so. I’ve said it before but McTominay, Gilmour and Turnbull is as good as we’ll have had for many, many years. Forrest, Fraser, Robertson, Tierney, Christie, Hornby. I think these players can get us to Sweden, Denmark type level and regular qualification - provided Clarke is around to oversee it. 

[Texas Pete]

1 hour ago, ceudmilefailte said:

Had a quick look at the Finland Team in the nations league qualifiers, Pukki in the Championship and the rest scattered to the winds of mediocrity in organised European football.

I’m not suggesting that beating Finland would be a great a achievement but it would be the first step in getting us to the major finals we all crave. That could be a major turning point for us. 

There would still be the matter of a potential trip to Serbia in the playoff final but we’ll find out if that’s a possibility in November. 

[Texas Pete]

1 hour ago, ceudmilefailte said:

I suppose compared with his time at Kilmarnock a  27 year old Ryan Jack is pretty young.

 

I'm not really that dour or negative I just don't want people getting their hopes up.

Any way I agree with what you both say about management and organisation being the most important thing for a group of limited players.

On second thoughts every one I know thinks I am a Negative Nancy so you could be right

Surely it’s up to each individual if they want to get their hopes up or not? 

I think we’ve all experienced the negatives of the last 20 years so we all know our limitations and know that qualification, even through the playoffs,  will be difficult.

With the new manager in place and the fact we’ve already reached the payoffs (something we’d have been ecstatic about if we’d done it 4 years ago) I think there is reason for optimism. 

[Guest ElChris04]

4 hours ago, ceudmilefailte said:

So we have no defenders(Robertson cant defend}, no goal keeper, and no striker based on that,. After that you have to take a leap of faith the our SPL players are quality despite their clubs performance in Europe suggesting other wise, And then an even bigger one that some fringe players in what might be a very weak league.

Will Say I think if we get the best out of McBurnie he will be very important to us.

You can't make a team out of that unless you are a magician.

Robertson can definitely defend, just hasn’t  turn up for Scotland under McLeish, he was unbelievable defensively against Barca and the highlight was him taking on 3 Barca players and still coming out on top with a world class tackle, that’s just one highlight of many, Now with Steve Clarke I hope we can see his defensive attributes with a way better organisation under Clarke,

centre backs McKenna,Soutter,Bates. Are all bang or below average for me, sorry but I just don’t buy into the hype with them.

I’d be more drawn to

Liam Lindsay,Liam Cooper,Stuart Findlay who I’ve seen of this season and have impressed me way more than them. Only bad game I’ve seen or Cooper was in the play off, bar that the other games he was a leader and pure quality and even got into the league TOTS. Findlay has always been good when I’ve seen him and reliable. And Liam Lindsay being the standout with when I’ve seen him he’s looked like a player in the wrong league. 

Edited May 26, 2019 by ElChris04

[ErsatzThistle]

52 minutes ago, ElChris04 said:

Robertson can definitely defend, just hasn’t  turn up for Scotland under McLeish, he was unbelievable defensively against Barca and the highlight was him taking on 3 Barca players and still coming out on top with a world class tackle, that’s just one highlight of many, Now with Steve Clarke I hope we can see his defensive attributes with a way better organisation under Clarke,

centre backs McKenna,Soutter,Bates. Are all bang or below average for me, sorry but I just don’t buy into the hype with them.

I’d be more drawn to

Liam Lindsay,Liam Cooper,Stuart Findlay who I’ve seen of this season and have impressed me way more than them. Only bad game I’ve seen or Cooper was in the play off, bar that the other games he was a leader and pure quality and even got into the league TOTS. Findlay has always been good when I’ve seen him and reliable. And Liam Lindsay being the standout with when I’ve seen him he’s looked like a player in the wrong league. 

I don't think it was a question of Robertson not turning up under McLeish, it was more to do with McLeish's miserable, negative tactics that did not allow for Robertson to make runs forward. Thank fuck he's gone.

Lindsay will have the chance to prove himself in the Championship next season anyway, Barnsley having been promoted.

[ceudmilefailte]

2 hours ago, Texas Pete said:

I’m not suggesting that beating Finland would be a great a achievement but it would be the first step in getting us to the major finals we all crave. That could be a major turning point for us. 

There would still be the matter of a potential trip to Serbia in the playoff final but we’ll find out if that’s a possibility in November. 

Didn't read into it that you thought it would be an achievement more an inevitability. I knew Finlands results didn't suggest they are awful but I was amazed to find out just how bad their available players appear to be based on were they play.

 

[Texas Pete]

4 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said:

Didn't read into it that you thought it would be an achievement more an inevitability. I knew Finlands results didn't suggest they are awful but I was amazed to find out just how bad their available players appear to be based on were they play.

 

I would never assume us beating anyone was an inevitability. We’ve all been caught out by that in the past.

A home game against Finland in the first match is about as easy as we could have hoped for. Not a guaranteed win by any means but the fact we’ll be at home against a team we’re better than (according to FIFA’s rankings) would make us favourites. 

[ProudScot]

3 hours ago, ElChris04 said:

Robertson can definitely defend, just hasn’t  turn up for Scotland under McLeish, he was unbelievable defensively against Barca and the highlight was him taking on 3 Barca players and still coming out on top with a world class tackle, that’s just one highlight of many, Now with Steve Clarke I hope we can see his defensive attributes with a way better organisation under Clarke,

centre backs McKenna,Soutter,Bates. Are all bang or below average for me, sorry but I just don’t buy into the hype with them.

I’d be more drawn to

Liam Lindsay,Liam Cooper,Stuart Findlay who I’ve seen of this season and have impressed me way more than them. Only bad game I’ve seen or Cooper was in the play off, bar that the other games he was a leader and pure quality and even got into the league TOTS. Findlay has always been good when I’ve seen him and reliable. And Liam Lindsay being the standout with when I’ve seen him he’s looked like a player in the wrong league. 

Think you’re wrong about Souttar. I think both him and Findlay are better than McKenna. 

[Grim Jim]

Just a wee look at Finland's recent record:

Beat Estonia home & away in NL.   Won at home, but lost away to Hungary & Greece.

Beat Sweden and lost to Estonia in Qatar friendlies.   Started EQs with a defeat in Italy and a win in Armenia.

 

Is it Bulgaria we might get if, say, Serbia qualify?

Beat Norway & Cyprus at home in NL, but drew with Slovenia.   Away, they beat Slovenia, drew in Cyprus and lost in Norway.

In EQs, drew at home to Montenegro and away in Kosovo.

[Texas Pete]

17 hours ago, Tartan Chris said:

When SC was quoted the other week he actually named checked  Ryan Jack when mentioning good young Scottish players around so he's a cert for the squad and can see him playing right back.

Jack should be in the squad. He’s been one of  Rangers most consistent performers this season. Not sure if he’d make my starting 11 for Scotland though unless we have a couple of midfielders pull out. 

I doubt he’ll play at right back if he’s in the squad though. Pretty sure Clarke will go for O’Donnell. 

Edited May 27, 2019 by Texas Pete

[bazmidd]

2 hours ago, Texas Pete said:

Jack should be in the squad. He’s been one of  Rangers most consistent performers this season. Not sure if he’d make my starting 11 for Scotland though unless we have a couple of midfielders pull out. 

I doubt he’ll play at right back if he’s in the squad though. Pretty sure Clarke will go for O’Donnell. 

Why should Ryan Jack be in the squad because he is one of the most consistent performers for the second placed team in the Scottish Premiership, a team that were miles of the league winners and made it to zero cup finals. Playing consistently well for Rangers means absolutely hee haw. We have far better options than Ryan Jack in Midfield. 

[vanderark14]

🤣🤣🤣🤣Ryan Jack

Hes as soft as shite, nowhere near the battling qualities for an international midfielder. Would Scott brown release him from his pocket for the week of the international game?