Uninspiring League Reconstruction - Football related - Discussion of non TA football - Tartan Army Message Board Jump to content

Uninspiring League Reconstruction


Recommended Posts

Completely ridiculous but it will probably go through.

You only have to look at the attendances in the Checkatrade Trophy in England to see how popular reserve or youth teams are.   A big part of that is the League One and Two fans boycotting but also the fact that Premier League youth teams aren't the attraction that they thought they'd be.

Scotland probably needs less teams in the senior ranks not more.   In Germany they have three leagues of 18 before the pyramid starts, that's 54 clubs, in Scotland it's 42.

Two divisions of 18, then the pyramid, that's what they should do.

Of course the SPFL (Self Preservation Football League) clubs would never go for it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, aaid said:

Completely ridiculous but it will probably go through.

You only have to look at the attendances in the Checkatrade Trophy in England to see how popular reserve or youth teams are.   A big part of that is the League One and Two fans boycotting but also the fact that Premier League youth teams aren't the attraction that they thought they'd be.

Scotland probably needs less teams in the senior ranks not more.   In Germany they have three leagues of 18 before the pyramid starts, that's 54 clubs, in Scotland it's 42.

Two divisions of 18, then the pyramid, that's what they should do.

Of course the SPFL (Self Preservation Football League) clubs would never go for it.

Totally agree.  42 is far too many for the population of Scotland. 

Playing teams 3 or 4 times a season has resulted in it becoming boring, although I do accept the argument that more teams have something to play for towards the end of the season.

The league to too short-sighted and won't make the changes that a lot of fans want.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it’s a great idea, Rangers and Celtic can hoover up Jake Hasties, Jordan Joness, Jonny hayess, scott Allans etc. and play them in league 2 instead of them competing with them in the top flight.

👍

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, PASTA Mick said:

Totally agree.  42 is far too many for the population of Scotland. 

Playing teams 3 or 4 times a season has resulted in it becoming boring, although I do accept the argument that more teams have something to play for towards the end of the season.

The league to too short-sighted and won't make the changes that a lot of fans want.

Why is 42 too many? I've never seen any sort of reasoned argument on this thought.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, ONeils4oyarder said:

Why is 42 too many? I've never seen any sort of reasoned argument on this thought.

Me neither, it's like folk think Airdrie and Albion fans for example would flock to watch a merged side.

If you merged Killie and Ayr you'd be lucky to get 1,000 fans.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, ONeils4oyarder said:

Why is 42 too many? I've never seen any sort of reasoned argument on this thought.

Because we have amateur teams in our professional leagues with as few as 145 people going to watch them.  

The league system clearly doesn't work very well - our teams perform poorly in Europe, we have one of the most predictable leagues in Europe and our national team is a joke.

14 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

Me neither, it's like folk think Airdrie and Albion fans for example would flock to watch a merged side.

If you merged Killie and Ayr you'd be lucky to get 1,000 fans.

Nobody is suggesting we merge teams.  I'm certainly not going that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, ONeils4oyarder said:

Why is 42 too many? I've never seen any sort of reasoned argument on this thought.

 

51 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

Me neither, it's like folk think Airdrie and Albion fans for example would flock to watch a merged side.

If you merged Killie and Ayr you'd be lucky to get 1,000 fans.

 

27 minutes ago, PASTA Mick said:

Because we have amateur teams in our professional leagues with as few as 145 people going to watch them.  

The league system clearly doesn't work very well - our teams perform poorly in Europe, we have one of the most predictable leagues in Europe and our national team is a joke.

Nobody is suggesting we merge teams.  I'm certainly not going that.

 

Surely it’s just a label?

Theres always going to be a level below, the fact it’s included in our league system is surely largely irrelevant?

What difference does it make to Celtic’s progress in Europe if Montrose play in league 1, league 2 or the Angus Sunday league?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not talking about teams merging or going out of business, I'm questioning why there are 42 clubs in the nationwide set up.

I'd have thought that having regional set up below two top divisions would reduce overheads for travel, clubs would still largely be playing other clubs of the same level and ability but with playing more local teams there would be more interest.

If you have a proper pyramid with promotion and relegation all the way through then you allow those clubs with ambition to progress through the leagues and also means those that accept mediocrity can reach their own level as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, PASTA Mick said:

Because we have amateur teams in our professional leagues with as few as 145 people going to watch them.  

The league system clearly doesn't work very well - our teams perform poorly in Europe, we have one of the most predictable leagues in Europe and our national team is a joke.

Nobody is suggesting we merge teams.  I'm certainly not going that.

What are you suggesting then? Make more teams play non league?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The last time that there was major league reconstruction in Scotland was season 1975/6 when they created the Premier League and the set up was three divisions of 10/14/14.

Prior to that it was a top division of 18 and a second division of 20.   The major criticism of this at the time was that there were too many "meaningless" games towards the end of the season as there were lots of teams with little to play for.

However, I think a lot of that was to do with it only being 2 up and 2 down and obviously there was no relegation at all from the lower division.

My proposal would be to go back to something like that with two national divisions of 16 and 18 and then a pyramid below that, for example a North and South league each with their own feeder structure.

I'd propose a top league of 16.   Everyone would play each other twice - home and away, after 30 games, you would have the split, with 7 games rather than 5 as at present.   That would give you 37 games a season rather than the current 38, so it's only losing one game.   The major difference I'd introduce would be three down, that should really keep things in the bottom half interesting.    I wouldn't have a relegation play-off, if you finish in the bottom three, you don't deserve a second chance, it's just rewarding failure, you're down.

I'd then have a lower division of 18, three up as previously mentioned, champions and runners-up, play off for 3rd to 6th for the final.  Everyone plays each other home and away, then you have a split which brings in an extra 8 games taking to 42 games.  That's six more games than currently but I think it needs to be a longer season as at the other end it is a lot more brutal.   I'd compensate for the additional games by scrapping the Irn Bru cup, which is a complete embarrassment anyway with the English, Irish and Welsh teams in.     I'd propose 4 down, two going into the North feeder and two into the South feeder and obviously two up from each feeder, probably champions and then play off winners.

I think that would get rid of the meaningless games as at both ends of the table there would be a lot to play for right up to the end of the season.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

What are you suggesting then? Make more teams play non league?

If you want to use that terminology then yes but I don't think that for the clubs involved it would make that much difference to the quality of football and actually might make it more competitive and appealing to fans.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, aaid said:

The last time that there was major league reconstruction in Scotland was season 1975/6 when they created the Premier League and the set up was three divisions of 10/14/14.

Prior to that it was a top division of 18 and a second division of 20.   The major criticism of this at the time was that there were too many "meaningless" games towards the end of the season as there were lots of teams with little to play for.

However, I think a lot of that was to do with it only being 2 up and 2 down and obviously there was no relegation at all from the lower division.

My proposal would be to go back to something like that with two national divisions of 16 and 18 and then a pyramid below that, for example a North and South league each with their own feeder structure.

I'd propose a top league of 16.   Everyone would play each other twice - home and away, after 30 games, you would have the split, with 7 games rather than 5 as at present.   That would give you 37 games a season rather than the current 38, so it's only losing one game.   The major difference I'd introduce would be three down, that should really keep things in the bottom half interesting.    I wouldn't have a relegation play-off, if you finish in the bottom three, you don't deserve a second chance, it's just rewarding failure, you're down.

I'd then have a lower division of 18, three up as previously mentioned, champions and runners-up, play off for 3rd to 6th for the final.  Everyone plays each other home and away, then you have a split which brings in an extra 8 games taking to 42 games.  That's six more games than currently but I think it needs to be a longer season as at the other end it is a lot more brutal.   I'd compensate for the additional games by scrapping the Irn Bru cup, which is a complete embarrassment anyway with the English, Irish and Welsh teams in.     I'd propose 4 down, two going into the North feeder and two into the South feeder and obviously two up from each feeder, probably champions and then play off winners.

I think that would get rid of the meaningless games as at both ends of the table there would be a lot to play for right up to the end of the season.

Also 2 pts for a win back then ( although am not convinced the 3pts has made a huge difference?)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Auchinyell Sox Change said:

Also 2 pts for a win back then ( although am not convinced the 3pts has made a huge difference?)

That's a good point, 3 pts for a win is generally considered to have encouraged attacking football - the argument being there's more incentive to win a game than to not lose.  Similarly I'm not sure if it makes much difference and it's pretty difficult to prove either way.  However, you look at things like that and the play-offs, the split - and people can argue whether or not these help - and there are now lots of other ways to structure football than there were in the 1970s.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, aaid said:

The last time that there was major league reconstruction in Scotland was season 1975/6 when they created the Premier League and the set up was three divisions of 10/14/14.

Prior to that it was a top division of 18 and a second division of 20.   The major criticism of this at the time was that there were too many "meaningless" games towards the end of the season as there were lots of teams with little to play for.

However, I think a lot of that was to do with it only being 2 up and 2 down and obviously there was no relegation at all from the lower division.

My proposal would be to go back to something like that with two national divisions of 16 and 18 and then a pyramid below that, for example a North and South league each with their own feeder structure.

I'd propose a top league of 16.   Everyone would play each other twice - home and away, after 30 games, you would have the split, with 7 games rather than 5 as at present.   That would give you 37 games a season rather than the current 38, so it's only losing one game.   The major difference I'd introduce would be three down, that should really keep things in the bottom half interesting.    I wouldn't have a relegation play-off, if you finish in the bottom three, you don't deserve a second chance, it's just rewarding failure, you're down.

I'd then have a lower division of 18, three up as previously mentioned, champions and runners-up, play off for 3rd to 6th for the final.  Everyone plays each other home and away, then you have a split which brings in an extra 8 games taking to 42 games.  That's six more games than currently but I think it needs to be a longer season as at the other end it is a lot more brutal.   I'd compensate for the additional games by scrapping the Irn Bru cup, which is a complete embarrassment anyway with the English, Irish and Welsh teams in.     I'd propose 4 down, two going into the North feeder and two into the South feeder and obviously two up from each feeder, probably champions and then play off winners.

I think that would get rid of the meaningless games as at both ends of the table there would be a lot to play for right up to the end of the season.

Have an end of season 4 legged play off between  1st and 2nd in premiership for the champions league spot and the authorities might consider it. 😂

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, sbcmfc said:

Have an end of season 4 legged play off between  1st and 2nd in premiership for the champions league spot and the authorities might consider it. 😂

As long as it was an old firm game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think there's certainly a case to be made for larger leagues.  Playing more teams adds more variety from a player and fans point of view. So called 'meaningless games', i.e. those where there is not a s much pressure might also allow some clubs to give youngsters more experience

Link to comment
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, aaid said:

As long as it was an old firm game.

I would imagine that was the point. It'll take some amount of persuasion to get Sky to drop their four Glasgow derbies and I doubt that the SPFL would even have the appetite to bother trying.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, aaid said:

The last time that there was major league reconstruction in Scotland was season 1975/6 when they created the Premier League and the set up was three divisions of 10/14/14.

Prior to that it was a top division of 18 and a second division of 20.   The major criticism of this at the time was that there were too many "meaningless" games towards the end of the season as there were lots of teams with little to play for.

However, I think a lot of that was to do with it only being 2 up and 2 down and obviously there was no relegation at all from the lower division.

My proposal would be to go back to something like that with two national divisions of 16 and 18 and then a pyramid below that, for example a North and South league each with their own feeder structure.

I'd propose a top league of 16.   Everyone would play each other twice - home and away, after 30 games, you would have the split, with 7 games rather than 5 as at present.   That would give you 37 games a season rather than the current 38, so it's only losing one game.   The major difference I'd introduce would be three down, that should really keep things in the bottom half interesting.    I wouldn't have a relegation play-off, if you finish in the bottom three, you don't deserve a second chance, it's just rewarding failure, you're down.

I'd then have a lower division of 18, three up as previously mentioned, champions and runners-up, play off for 3rd to 6th for the final.  Everyone plays each other home and away, then you have a split which brings in an extra 8 games taking to 42 games.  That's six more games than currently but I think it needs to be a longer season as at the other end it is a lot more brutal.   I'd compensate for the additional games by scrapping the Irn Bru cup, which is a complete embarrassment anyway with the English, Irish and Welsh teams in.     I'd propose 4 down, two going into the North feeder and two into the South feeder and obviously two up from each feeder, probably champions and then play off winners.

I think that would get rid of the meaningless games as at both ends of the table there would be a lot to play for right up to the end of the season.

As much as I would love to see this happen, there is no way in hell the OF, the SFA, The SPFL would be so adventurous. We live in a footballing world where some people at the top of our game/clubs believe the game cannot thrive without 4 OF matches every season. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, aaid said:

The last time that there was major league reconstruction in Scotland was season 1975/6 when they created the Premier League and the set up was three divisions of 10/14/14.

Prior to that it was a top division of 18 and a second division of 20.   The major criticism of this at the time was that there were too many "meaningless" games towards the end of the season as there were lots of teams with little to play for.

However, I think a lot of that was to do with it only being 2 up and 2 down and obviously there was no relegation at all from the lower division.

My proposal would be to go back to something like that with two national divisions of 16 and 18 and then a pyramid below that, for example a North and South league each with their own feeder structure.

I'd propose a top league of 16.   Everyone would play each other twice - home and away, after 30 games, you would have the split, with 7 games rather than 5 as at present.   That would give you 37 games a season rather than the current 38, so it's only losing one game.   The major difference I'd introduce would be three down, that should really keep things in the bottom half interesting.    I wouldn't have a relegation play-off, if you finish in the bottom three, you don't deserve a second chance, it's just rewarding failure, you're down.

I'd then have a lower division of 18, three up as previously mentioned, champions and runners-up, play off for 3rd to 6th for the final.  Everyone plays each other home and away, then you have a split which brings in an extra 8 games taking to 42 games.  That's six more games than currently but I think it needs to be a longer season as at the other end it is a lot more brutal.   I'd compensate for the additional games by scrapping the Irn Bru cup, which is a complete embarrassment anyway with the English, Irish and Welsh teams in.     I'd propose 4 down, two going into the North feeder and two into the South feeder and obviously two up from each feeder, probably champions and then play off winners.

I think that would get rid of the meaningless games as at both ends of the table there would be a lot to play for right up to the end of the season.

Sounds good in theory, but what if 1 team from the north and 3 from the south go down? That would create uneven numbers in those leagues or make a helluva lot of travelling for 1 south team that goes into the north league. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, sbcmfc said:

Have an end of season 4 legged play off between  1st and 2nd in premiership for the champions league spot and the authorities might consider it. 😂

Or we could just scrap football entirely and play these games in May. That’s what Scottish football authorities want anyway, everyone else would hardly be a miss to them. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, dandydunn said:

Sounds good in theory, but what if 1 team from the north and 3 from the south go down? That would create uneven numbers in those leagues or make a helluva lot of travelling for 1 south team that goes into the north league. 

Happens all the time in England which has a similar set up and while its not without problems, people just get on with it.   In the case you mention, there would be an extra team in the south and so the "most northernly" team in the south would move into the northern division.

This season from the National League, all four relegated teams were from the South.  The league constitutions haven't been decided for next season as there are still playoffs and it looks like Gateshead may well go bust and reprieve Aldershot but as it currently stands, Gloucester City - who play in Evesham, just south of Birmingham - look certain to move from NLS to NLN, they only moved the other way last season.

Bishops Stortford - which is next to Stansted Airport have had to play in the National League North, which isn't as mad as it seems.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, vanderark14 said:

We live in a footballing world where some people at the top of our game/clubs believe the game cannot thrive without 4 OF matches every season. 

Given that the game survived well enough without any Old Firm games recently,  this opinion has actually been proven to be shite.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Toepoke said:

Given that the game survived well enough without any Old Firm games recently,  this opinion has actually been proven to be shite.

No argument against that from me but everyone involved in the game feels different and their pals in the press will keep peddling it till it becomes a duopoly again

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...


×
×
  • Create New...