Hertsscot Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 Okay given that most managers careers are doomed to end in failure but who was the greatest ever manager of the national side given the resources at their disposal? It's easier to think of those who underachieved Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chripper Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 9 minutes ago, Hertsscot said: who was the greatest ever manager of the national side given the resources at their disposal? Craig Brown. He got us two one world cup and one European championships (almost two if we didn't lose in the play-off to England) He had Leighton, Colin Hendry, Lambert, Collins and McAllister, McCoist in his time. The rest of his players were average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumnio Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 Can only speak about my time as a Scotland fan, Id rank them like this Craig Brown Walter Smith Alex McLeish (1st edition) Gordon Strachan Berti Vogts Burley, Levein and McLeish (2nd edition) were all equally woeful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auchinyell Sox Change Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 14 minutes ago, Chripper said: Craig Brown. He got us two one world cup and one European championships (almost two if we didn't lose in the play-off to England) He had Leighton, Colin Hendry, Lambert, Collins and McAllister, McCoist in his time. The rest of his players were average. Hendry and McCoist were average for Scotland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chripper Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 Just now, Auchinyell Sox Change said: Hendry and McCoist were average for Scotland Well, we'll have to agree to disagree with that one. Hendry was a rock for Scotland and as for McCoist, I don't think we'll ever have enough 19 goal striker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auchinyell Sox Change Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 He was certainly a rock when gazza left him on his arse at wembley ; ditto Scholes at hampden durie for me was a better forward at international level ; at least he could hold on to the ball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chripper Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 3 minutes ago, Auchinyell Sox Change said: He was certainly a rock when gazza left him on his arse at wembley ; ditto Scholes at hampden durie for me was a better forward at international level ; at least he could hold on to the ball I think it's unfair to judge him in a couple of matches. That's like me citing the match against Brazil in 98 when he was superb. To be honest, I'd take either striker from that era over the current crop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hertsscot Posted April 18, 2019 Author Share Posted April 18, 2019 29 minutes ago, Chripper said: Craig Brown. He got us two one world cup and one European championships (almost two if we didn't lose in the play-off to England) He had Leighton, Colin Hendry, Lambert, Collins and McAllister, McCoist in his time. The rest of his players were average. I must admit that would probably have been my choice as well though he undoubtedly had better players than we have now. The only thing that I would be critical about was he didn't seem to bring enough youngsters through towards the end of his time although no doubt he would say there were not quality youngsters to bring through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chripper Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 3 minutes ago, Hertsscot said: I must admit that would probably have been my choice as well though he undoubtedly had better players than we have now. The only thing that I would be critical about was he didn't seem to bring enough youngsters through towards the end of his time although no doubt he would say there were not quality youngsters to bring through. Yeah, I'd say that, too. The zenith of our youngsters at the time was March Burchill and...errrr….. Lots of people say about Brown, a tad unfairly. He gave Ferguson his debut at 20. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catchart Circle Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 (edited) Tommy Docherty. But, like McLeish, he blotted his copybook when he sold his soul for English gold and a lot of fans never forgave him for turning his back on Scotland. Edited April 18, 2019 by Catchart Circle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 4 hours ago, Auchinyell Sox Change said: He was certainly a rock when gazza left him on his arse at wembley ; ditto Scholes at hampden A couple of poor moments there but Hendry saved our arses a lot more than he cost us. 3 goals conceded in an entire campaign. We'd equalled that after one game this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 Big Jock, by a mile. Ally Mcleod. Ormond. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 Roxburgh and Brown were the only managers to get us to consecutive tournaments. Arguably Roxburgh had the better players, Italia 90 and Euro 92 were our last good squads with loads of competition for places. I'd also say that Brown had it harder with the breakup of the USSR and Yugoslavia meaning qualification was more difficult, although on the other hand both the Euro and WC finals were enlarged. On balance, I'd go with Brown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASTA Mick Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 I'd rank them in this order (since I've been going) - Brown McLeish (1st time) Smith Strachan Vogts Levein McLeish (2nd time) Burley The bottom 4 were all pretty terrible. Burley was the biggest disappointment because I thought he'd do really well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceudmilefailte Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 56 minutes ago, aaid said: Roxburgh and Brown were the only managers to get us to consecutive tournaments. Arguably Roxburgh had the better players, Italia 90 and Euro 92 were our last good squads with loads of competition for places. I'd also say that Brown had it harder with the breakup of the USSR and Yugoslavia meaning qualification was more difficult, although on the other hand both the Euro and WC finals were enlarged. On balance, I'd go with Brown. You could say that Brown had easier qualification routes due to to Roxburgh's success but then qualification was pretty simple back then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 6 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said: You could say that Brown had easier qualification routes due to to Roxburgh's success but then qualification was pretty simple back then Not sure about that. Brown took the job after Roxburgh failed to qualify for USA 94 when we were in pot 2, albeit in a tough group that included Italy, Switzerland and Portugal. For Euro 96 we were in pot 3. I can't rightly recall how they did the seedlings back then but I think they were a bit less empirical than they are these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 As an aside, they obviously completely screwed up the seedings for USA 94 for UEFA. 12 spots were available, 37 nations entered, there were 6 groups and the top two went through. Of the teams that qualified, 4 were from pot 1, 2 from pot 2, 2 from pot 3 and 4 from pot 4. As many teams qualified from pot 4 as pot 1! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daviebee Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 Billy Stark - 100% record. Worst ever was Vogts. Still have nightmares about the guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrniaboc Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 17 hours ago, Auchinyell Sox Change said: Hendry and McCoist were average for Scotland Lawl. I guess you missed the Euro 96 campaign and finals? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auchinyell Sox Change Posted April 20, 2019 Share Posted April 20, 2019 19 hours ago, mrniaboc said: Lawl. I guess you missed the Euro 96 campaign and finals? Was that the one we managed one goal in the tournament against a crap switzerland team , and were eliminated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Black Bra Posted April 20, 2019 Share Posted April 20, 2019 Think Roxburgh deserves more credit... Not old enough to remember World Cup ‘74 but the way I remember it Euro ‘92 was the only finals where we didn’t make a mess of things somewhere along the line. We were one of only 8 teams to qualify and we finished with the 5th best record. IIRC there were two groups of four teams and the top two in each group went through to the semis, we had the best record of the teams that missed out, meaning we were technically 5th in Europe! We lost our first two games but they were against Germany and Holland, they were close games where I remember is playing some great football. Also I would argue that the 2-1 win against Sweden in ‘90 was our best ever WC result. To bounce back from the Costa Rica disaster to beat a good Sweden side. Better than beating Holland in ‘78 as they didn’t actually want to win that game.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrniaboc Posted April 20, 2019 Share Posted April 20, 2019 21 hours ago, Auchinyell Sox Change said: Was that the one we managed one goal in the tournament against a crap switzerland team , and were eliminated Yes. He was the only Scot to score in that tournament. He also came off the bench and scored within a minute against a Greece to all but secure us qualification. Also, if Seaman didn't let one through his legs at the end against Holland Coisty's goal would haveed us to the knockouts for the first time in history. What a terrible Scotland striker! All he ever did was score for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccaughey85 Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 (edited) Lol mccoist and hendry were "average" for Scotland. Seriously what planet are ppl on. Mccoist scored 19 goals in 61 apps, that's nearly a goal every three games. He scored a screamer against Switzerland that basically won us the game. He helped us qualify for actual tournaments, something we haven't done in years. Colin hendry was a rock for Scotland as well and we would never of gotten to tournaments without a top class cb like him. Edited April 21, 2019 by mccaughey85 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbo cop Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 Could of and should have been Ally Mcleod, had a great squad back then but failed to progress in the World Cup when we had a great chance. So Brown and Ormond for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auchinyell Sox Change Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 23 hours ago, mccaughey85 said: Lol mccoist and hendry were "average" for Scotland. Seriously what planet are ppl on. Mccoist scored 19 goals in 61 apps, that's nearly a goal every three games. He scored a screamer against Switzerland that basically won us the game. He helped us qualify for actual tournaments, something we haven't done in years. Colin hendry was a rock for Scotland as well and we would never of gotten to tournaments without a top class cb like him. Lot of mccoists goals were v diddy teams ; he looked like a little boy lost against some of the better teams , and had difficulty in holding up the ball for support to bring rest of team in ; he missed 3 one on ones v yugoslavia away in 89 ; switzerland was a great goal and he had a knack of pulling spectacular goals out like that ; i questioned his work rate at international level ; different ball game to 15-20 chances a game whilst at rangers , lots of supply , weaker opposition typically not bad ; average is what id said, just to qualify that ; and not being brainwashed by weegie media Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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