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The Scotland manager...


Chripper

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2 hours ago, Chripper said:

I'd take that. I'd take anything as long as the SFA are taken down.

It's that ridiculous, though? Here's a bunch of people who aren't doing their jobs properly, who are imcompetent, so much so that they appoint an obviously frail man to be Scotland boss, and yet they cannot be fired. It's absolutely ridiculous and could only happen in Scotland!

If people don't like a government they overthrow them. The SFA should be physically taken out of office.

I'd say that he could only do what he did. The players around him weren't of the same standard. Put Rakitic in our team and he wouldn't be able to do very much.

I wouldn't keep any of them. I would literally get rid of them all and begin again. I would clear them out root and branch. Who would I bring in? Well, that's putting the cart before the horse. There are levels to the SFA, and any company, so I'd bring in a head-hunter to employ the best people for the job. The current lot were probably employed because of who they know, not what they know.

I'd like Dempster and Budge brought in. The business part of the SFA is a discussion for another time, though. I'd bring in Dalglish, Souness, Hansen, SAF, Fabio Capello, anyone and everyone who knows football and has a progress blueprint of how we can get out of this hole that they're stuck in.

The whole structure of Scottish football is broken. Have you been to a division one match lately (I refuse to say Championship)? Yeah, don't! Unless you want your neck in a brace for the next few days. The skill, the technique, the intelligence in the SPL is bad, but in lower leagues it's just laughable.

I have many ideas of how to improve Scottish football, just a shame the SFA is a dictatorship ruled by football Nazis who are immune from being fired.

 

So you'll understand that currently the board get elected by the clubs.  It's how that gets changed because the clubs are probably happy with those in role at present. 

The initial change I'd make would be to empower the chief exec and remove the power from committees.

I feel that you and me are on the same page but unfortunately it is not as straightforward as sacking the lot of them - no matter how appealing that is. 

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Just now, tartanmartin said:

So you'll understand that currently the board get elected by the clubs.  It's how that gets changed because the clubs are probably happy with those in role at present. 

The initial change I'd make would be to empower the chief exec and remove the power from committees.

I feel that you and me are on the same page but unfortunately it is not as straightforward as sacking the lot of them - no matter how appealing that is. 

I know. And they definitely are. The clubs voting for change is like Turkeys voting for Christmas, it's just never going to happen.

Oh, we're definitely on the same page, and I really hope more people are. 

McLeish getting sacked has just enraged me even more. Why? Because the SFA will think that they've given us what we want and now all is rosy in the garden of Scotland. Wrong! 

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8 minutes ago, Chripper said:

They're our employees. Therefore, we are well without our rights to be able to have a say in how the SFA is run and outline our expectations. 

They are elected by the club's which is likely wrong. Fans deserve a say but it's not going to happen. Jokeshop.

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Just now, tartanmartin said:

They are elected by the club's which is likely wrong. Fans deserve a say but it's not going to happen. Jokeshop.

The fans definitely deserve a vote.

In general, fans are taken for mugs. We're loyal, and that loyalty is exploited, both at domestic level and at international level. 

At both levels, they work for us. If fans didn't go to matches, pay subscriptions, etc, there would be no football. Simple as that.

The SFA are supposed to control and govern Scottish Football, but look at the state it's in. I don't think it's been in a worse state, domestically and internationally. These people are not football people, these are just people who sit in offices with big desks and twiddle their thumbs... all they seem to do is hire and sack managers.

 

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I have no gripes with McLeish getting the axe. We had two totally abject performances against awful opposition. 

However, I do not hold out hope for much change considering who is in charge of picking the next manager. Knowing the SFA selection committee its pretty much nailed on it will be a manager of the ilk of Pault Lambert or Murdo Mackay and most definitely not of the ilk of Slavin Bilic. I do agree with Chripper I do not see us going forward until there is a clear out at the SFA and a complete re-organisation and rethink of how the game is run in Scotland plus league make-up etc.

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18 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

I do agree with Chripper I do not see us going forward until there is a clear out at the SFA and a complete re-organisation and rethink of how the game is run in Scotland plus league make-up etc.

I absolutely agree.

This chopping and changing managers will do practically zilch.

An absolute overhaul of the way that the entire structure of Scottish football is run, from top to bottom, as well as gutting out the SFA and bringing in people who actually know about the game... I know that it's a radical idea bring in football people to actually structure a football association, but why the hell not.

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4 hours ago, Chripper said:

Against who? Personally I don't rate him. Southampton bought Armstrong for around £8m, he's around the same quality as McGregor, and Armstrong is warming the bench.

Don't believe the hype, we only have one top central midfielder. The rest are English Championship/Bottom of the EPL standard.

I don't believe any hype and I don't choose to believe something just because you say so either. I believe what I see with my own eyes and for me Calum McGregor is a good player. I have watched him play well for Celtic on numerous occasions in Europe notably against bayern Munich and zenit St Peters burg where he scored an absolutely class goal

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Caledonian Craig and Chripper - I agree with you both that a clear our is required and football folk brought in for the key roles. Folk like Nevin, Alex Ferguson, Mikey Stewart etc. Folk that are forward thinking and take no shit.

But, it's extremely difficult to see how that happens within the existing governance framework. 

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8 minutes ago, tartanmartin said:

Caledonian Craig and Chripper - I agree with you both that a clear our is required and football folk brought in for the key roles. Folk like Nevin, Alex Ferguson, Mikey Stewart etc. Folk that are forward thinking and take no shit.

But, it's extremely difficult to see how that happens within the existing governance framework. 

Precisely.

We are stuck in a never-ending rut and SFA committee choosing 'their' manager just dumps us with another fall guy and so it goes on. Nothing will change as things stand.

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38 minutes ago, bazmidd said:

I don't believe any hype and I don't choose to believe something just because you say so either. I believe what I see with my own eyes and for me Calum McGregor is a good player. I have watched him play well for Celtic on numerous occasions in Europe notably against bayern Munich and zenit St Peters burg where he scored an absolutely class goal

Fine, he's a good player. But I want players who are better than good. I'm sure Wolves and Fulham fans think that McDonald is good, doesn't mean he's good enough.

 

11 minutes ago, tartanmartin said:

Caledonian Craig and Chripper - I agree with you both that a clear our is required and football folk brought in for the key roles. Folk like Nevin, Alex Ferguson, Mikey Stewart etc. Folk that are forward thinking and take no shit.

But, it's extremely difficult to see how that happens within the existing governance framework. 

I don't see it happening. I think the only way that it might happen is if Scotland fans actually got together, picketed, boycotted and hit the SFA where it hurts.

We're in a never-ending loop when it comes to the SFA. It's akin to a country ran by a tyrannical leader, when that person retires, he then appoints his sibling. And that's exactly what they are. They're tyrants. They take our money and give nothing back.

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6 hours ago, Chripper said:

And as masochistic as it sounds, I DON'T want our results to improve.

I want things to get so bad and so embarrassing that change would HAVE to come in. 

Would us being 100 in the rankings make people stand up and demand change? Maybe not, but nearer 200 and it would.

Well that's just fkin daft.

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13 minutes ago, daviebee said:

Well that's just fkin daft.

So, it's better for us to treading water whilst we float around the 30/50 ranking mark?

I disagree.

I'd rather sink to as long as we can get, the SFA resign in disgrace, we replace them with competent people, things get fixed, and we become a great team with a conveyer belt of superstars.

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43 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Precisely.

We are stuck in a never-ending rut and SFA committee choosing 'their' manager just dumps us with another fall guy and so it goes on. Nothing will change as things stand.

This is the reason why in a nutshell we are getting  20k odd at home people have had enough and times change...but scotland football team hasn't sadly..... 

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3 hours ago, tartanmartin said:

The whole structure of Scottish football is broken. Have you been to a division one match lately (I refuse to say Championship)? Yeah, don't! Unless you want your neck in a brace for the next few days. The skill, the technique, the intelligence in the SPL is bad, but in lower leagues it's just laughable.

Truth ....completely 

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47 minutes ago, Chripper said:

Fine, he's a good player. But I want players who are better than good. I'm sure Wolves and Fulham fans think that McDonald is good, doesn't mean he's good enough.

 

I don't see it happening. I think the only way that it might happen is if Scotland fans actually got together, picketed, boycotted and hit the SFA where it hurts.

We're in a never-ending loop when it comes to the SFA. It's akin to a country ran by a tyrannical leader, when that person retires, he then appoints his sibling. And that's exactly what they are. They're tyrants. They take our money and give nothing back.

We would all love a team full of top players, I'd love 11 Top Internationals in our starting line up all playing for the top clubs in Europe but the fact is you don't need 11 Top Internationals to qualify for a World Cup or Euros. Your comparison of Kevin Mcdonald and Calum McGregor though is nonsense as McGregor is a better player than him. Mcdonald is a mediocre player

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8 minutes ago, bazmidd said:

Your comparison of Kevin Mcdonald and Calum McGregor though is nonsense as McGregor is a better player than him. Mcdonald is a mediocre player

Well, one is playing against free transfers and the other in one of the best leagues in the world.

McGregor may be better, but it's not by much.

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31 minutes ago, scotsgary1 said:

This is the reason why in a nutshell we are getting  20k odd at home people have had enough and times change...but scotland football team hasn't sadly..... 

We got less than that after wc 90, romania & switzerland ; and 20k ish i recall v portugal at ibrox for wc 94 qualifier

not sure how long punters will keep coming back tho

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10 hours ago, Chripper said:

Is NOT the issue!

We could have Pochettino, Mourinho, Sir Alex Ferguson, Jurgen Klopp, etc. Does anyone honestly think that things would improve?

Fine, Okay, a good manager will organize us, they will make us more into a working unit and we may even play better and achieve better results, but the increments would be small. Our ultimate improvements would be determined by our pool of very limited footballers. 

Chopping and changing managers isn't the answer. The answer is forcing the SFA to make major and radical change to Scottish football. If they're willing to do this then they should step aside for people who will. How can we do this? Boycotting matches. Not buying tickets. Not buying official merchandise. If people did attend matches it would be great to hear a MASSIVE chorus of "sack the board", etc. Banners, etc. Picketing Hampden demanding change. Anything that we can do get those people out of their cushy jobs where they're doing nothing.

This might sound like all white noise that the SFA would ignore, but if the media picked up on it and there was that much discontent then I firmly believe that change would happen. 

Soon Rod Petrie will be the new SFA president. This isn't a football man, what credentials does he have to adjudicate over Scottish footballing matters? The guy is a qualified chartered accountant. Which makes sense, as all the SFA do is collect our money.

People celebrating the ousting of Alex McLeish should take a beat to look at the big picture. The foreground is changing, but the background isn't, and It won't if we stand up for change.

I'm certainly not celebrating.

 

Of course things would improve with a top manager.

I am getting a bit fed up with the "does not matter who is manager as our players are awful" mentality.  It is this very train of thought that is killing our game domestically and at international level.

A more positive perspective from the press and the fans may well help us achieve more.  Half of the time we are beaten before a  ball is kicked.  It is no wonder that we have so many players withdraw.  Our attitute stinks at times...this must filter down to the players, who must think...what is the point, we are not good enough?

We have very decent players.  Our captain has been (including this season) instrumental to leading his club team to 2 successive Champions League semi finals, and has a shot of winning a league winners medal at one of the world's top leagues.  We have Fraser too, who is one of the top assisters in the very same league with a bang average side, and being touted with a move to Arsenal.  A slew of very deent professionals at our top Scottish team, the best of which (in my opinion) being Tierney, I do think he will be in one of europe's top leagues very soon.  McKenna, whilst having a lot to learn, is very promising, and valued in the £10million bracket.  Bates...getting rave reviews in Germany.  McTominay, bossing games versus PSG, and playing for one of the world's top teams.  We have the like of Gilmour, who I believe will be top quality, coming through.  Possibily Dembele, although attitudes such as this will ultimately force him to chose England over us.

In Griffiths' absense we do lack a decent striker.  But if Northern Ireland can make Maggenis look decent, then the like of McBurnie and S Fletcher can be made into world beaters.

It is not all doom and gloom, and what I guess I am trying to day is, given the right manager, we will be a LOT better.  No more of this defeatist attitude that had plagued our game for too long.

Anyway...rant over.

Edited by WeLuvIrnBru
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1 hour ago, WeLuvIrnBru said:

Of course things would improve with a top manager.

I am getting a bit fed up with the "does not matter who is manager as our players are awful" mentality.  It is this very train of thought that is killing our game domestically and at international level.

A more positive perspective from the press and the fans may well help us achieve more.  Half of the time we are beaten before a  ball is kicked.  It is no wonder that we have so many players withdraw.  Our attitute stinks at times...this must filter down to the players, who must think...what is the point, we are not good enough?

We have very decent players.  Our captain has been (including this season) instrumental to leading his club team to 2 successive Champions League semi finals, and has a shot of winning a league winners medal at one of the world's top leagues.  We have Fraser too, who is one of the top assisters in the very same league with a bang average side, and being touted with a move to Arsenal.  A slew of very deent professionals at our top Scottish team, the best of which (in my opinion) being Tierney, I do think he will be in one of europe's top leagues very soon.  McKenna, whilst having a lot to learn, is very promising, and valued in the £10million bracket.  Bates...getting rave reviews in Germany.  McTominay, bossing games versus PSG, and playing for one of the world's top teams.  We have the like of Gilmour, who I believe will be top quality, coming through.  Possibily Dembele, although attitudes such as this will ultimately force him to chose England over us.

In Griffiths' absense we do lack a decent striker.  But if Northern Ireland can make Maggenis look decent, then the like of McBurnie and S Fletcher can be made into world beaters.

It is not all doom and gloom, and what I guess I am trying to day is, given the right manager, we will be a LOT better.  No more of this defeatist attitude that had plagued our game for too long.

Anyway...rant over.

Things would definitely improve, but only short term.

So, you're blaming the fans for killing the game? OK. If you want to blame anyone blame the SFA for doing nothing to improve or game, blame the domestic clubs for facilitating these jackasses and blame the Old Firm for being monumental douchebags.

What you're saying is positive mental attitude will improve things? I'm all for Chi and meditation, etc, but let's face facts, the majority of the players in our pool are simply not good enough at international level. How many of them play in European competitions? If they do, it's usually the preliminary stages. We all witnessed how our players simply dissolved against Kazakhstan. That performance alone should've been a wake-up call to all of the fans that these players really are pathetic. I watched the game and I was literally laughing. I was literally wishing more goals to be shipped, why? Because it would wake people up to the fact that we need change. Major change.

Football matches are won and lost in midfield, our midfield is that bad that I'm begging the next manager to play a trio of Fraser, Robertson and McTominay. Celtic won't allow Tierney to leave for less than £25m. No team will ever pay that amount for a Scottish player based in Scotland. Gilmour will or won't make it, no one knows Demele will only choose Scotland if England don't want him.

Why does everyone like McBurnie? This is his first real season in football and he's done alright. That's it. He's done alright. He's not really for international football yet.

If we want the right manager then the SFA must go, because they'll go the cheap route.

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9 hours ago, Chripper said:

Well, one is playing against free transfers and the other in one of the best leagues in the world.

McGregor may be better, but it's not by much.

Firstly Mcdonald isn't even playing in the most overhyped league in the world he is a bench warmer at best.

Secondly it isnt even matter of fact that it is the best league in the world... Don't believe the hype

Lastly I just explained why I think McGregor is a good player as I have watched him perform brilliantly against the likes of Bayern Munich and Zenit none of which were made up of free transfers. 

If you want to make points fine but don't make comments which are made out to be a matter of fact when they are not

 

 

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1 hour ago, bazmidd said:

Firstly Mcdonald isn't even playing in the most overhyped league in the world he is a bench warmer at best.

Secondly it isnt even matter of fact that it is the best league in the world... Don't believe the hype

Lastly I just explained why I think McGregor is a good player as I have watched him perform brilliantly against the likes of Bayern Munich and Zenit none of which were made up of free transfers. 

If you want to make points fine but don't make comments which are made out to be a matter of fact when they are not

 

 

I didn't say it was the best league in the world. Take out the top 6 and it's just an extension of the Championship... which ain't good.

You're mentioning two matches. Is Tony Watt the new Brazilian Ronaldo because he scored against Barcelona?  Anyone can have a good game here or there. If McGregor was in England he sure as hell wouldn't be with a top 6 team. 

1 hour ago, ceudmilefailte said:

"Not being ready yet"attitude has held us back for years

Point taken. I actually meant "not good enough".

I actually think the lad from Everton is a better prospect, can't remember his name..

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11 hours ago, Chripper said:

So, it's better for us to treading water whilst we float around the 30/50 ranking mark?

I disagree.

I'd rather sink to as long as we can get, the SFA resign in disgrace, we replace them with competent people, things get fixed, and we become a great team with a conveyer belt of superstars.

I think it's surprisingly naive of you to think if we were to burn down like that a phoenix would rise from the ashes. 

I know it's boring, but change for the better should be done incrementally while trying to maintain as high a standard as possible in the meantime. A new manager is a step in the right direction. Next, some changes in how the SFA works. 

Let's not just throw away a bunch of campaigns to make a statement. You wouldn't put on 10 stones to shock yourself into becoming fit! 

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1 minute ago, mrniaboc said:

I think it's surprisingly naive of you to think if we were to burn down like that a phoenix would rise from the ashes. 

I know it's boring, but change for the better should be done incrementally while trying to maintain as high a standard as possible in the meantime. A new manager is a step in the right direction. Next, some changes in how the SFA works. 

Let's not just throw away a bunch of campaigns to make a statement. You wouldn't put on 10 stones to shock yourself into becoming fit! 

Action has to be taken. If that means we stop Scottish football in its tracks in order to make progress then so be it. I know what you're saying about doing it in stages. but what we need is a radical change of power... now! If I had my way all of the SFA members would be shown the door and replaced with temps. They don't do anything anyway, so what would it matter. The temps would hold the fort whilst the recruitment process took place.

Let's not throw away a bunch of campaigns to make a statement? How many campaigns have we thrown away in the past 18 years? All of them? How many more do we have to throw away before we actually get it?

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1 minute ago, Chripper said:

Action has to be taken. If that means we stop Scottish football in its tracks in order to make progress then so be it. I know what you're saying about doing it in stages. but what we need is a radical change of power... now! If I had my way all of the SFA members would be shown the door and replaced with temps. They don't do anything anyway, so what would it matter. The temps would hold the fort whilst the recruitment process took place.

Let's not throw away a bunch of campaigns to make a statement? How many campaigns have we thrown away in the past 18 years? All of them? How many more do we have to throw away before we actually get it?

I understand what you're saying, but do you genuinely belive it can happen? 

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