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The Scotland manager...


Chripper

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Is NOT the issue!

We could have Pochettino, Mourinho, Sir Alex Ferguson, Jurgen Klopp, etc. Does anyone honestly think that things would improve?

Fine, Okay, a good manager will organize us, they will make us more into a working unit and we may even play better and achieve better results, but the increments would be small. Our ultimate improvements would be determined by our pool of very limited footballers. 

Chopping and changing managers isn't the answer. The answer is forcing the SFA to make major and radical change to Scottish football. If they're willing to do this then they should step aside for people who will. How can we do this? Boycotting matches. Not buying tickets. Not buying official merchandise. If people did attend matches it would be great to hear a MASSIVE chorus of "sack the board", etc. Banners, etc. Picketing Hampden demanding change. Anything that we can do get those people out of their cushy jobs where they're doing nothing.

This might sound like all white noise that the SFA would ignore, but if the media picked up on it and there was that much discontent then I firmly believe that change would happen. 

Soon Rod Petrie will be the new SFA president. This isn't a football man, what credentials does he have to adjudicate over Scottish footballing matters? The guy is a qualified chartered accountant. Which makes sense, as all the SFA do is collect our money.

People celebrating the ousting of Alex McLeish should take a beat to look at the big picture. The foreground is changing, but the background isn't, and It won't if we stand up for change.

I'm certainly not celebrating.

 

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10 minutes ago, Chripper said:

 

Fine, Okay, a good manager will organize us, they will make us more into a working unit and we may even play better and achieve better results, but the increments would be small. Our ultimate improvements would be determined by our pool of very limited footballers.

 

At this top level, being ultra organised, making small incremental improvements, making the most of a limited pool of "limited" players is what it is all about.

Thats exactly what we need to see some improvement, rather than go backwards by treading water with the cookie cutter mangerial type we have picked in recent years.

ie. mediocre managers that have found some artificial success by winning a 2 horse or at times 1 horse race.

 

everyone can name "smaller" nations that when doing the above can and do qualify regularly for major championships.

Iceland, NI etc.....

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1 minute ago, The Golden Vision said:

At this top level, being ultra organised, making small incremental improvements, making the most of a limited pool of "limited" players is what it is all about.

Thats exactly what we need to see some improvement, rather than go backwards by treading water with the cookie cutter mangerial type we have picked in recent years.

ie. mediocre managers that have found some artificial success by winning a 2 horse or at times 1 horse race.

 

everyone can name "smaller" nations that when doing the above can and do qualify regularly for major championships.

Iceland, NI etc.....

Of course it's what it's all about, but I'm thinking long term. What will that ultimately achieve long term? I'm talking about 10, 20 years. We have no talented kids, we have none coming through, most of our current professionals aren't fit the lace the boots of the great Scotland players.

What's needed is a massive overhaul and change.

I read an article where David Bates said that the training in Germany is so different to training in Scotland as they train with the ball more (who knew that training with a BALL would make footballers better?) and all they do in Scotland is cardio work. He also said that Bundesliga 2 is better than the SPL... not surprising.

Really? Iceland? You really want to put them in the mix? Research how many facilities they have in their country. They have much more than we do and yet they're a population of just over 300k.

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Just now, Chripper said:

Long term?

Explain.

I agree with you that revolution in the SFA and Scottish football would be amazing, but practically speaking it's not gonna happen any time soon. You're hunting unicorns while I just want to see my team not getting embarrassed on the pitch any more, and I think that would improve with a good manager. We actually have decent players! 

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1 minute ago, mrniaboc said:

I agree with you that revolution in the SFA and Scottish football would be amazing, but practically speaking it's not gonna happen any time soon. You're hunting unicorns while I just want to see my team not getting embarrassed on the pitch any more, and I think that would improve with a good manager. We actually have decent players! 

We have Fraser, Robertson, Tierney and McTominay. The rest aren't decent. The rest are the definition of mediocrity.

2 minutes ago, runningtings said:

Yes.

It would actually help if people read this part:

"Fine, Okay, a good manager will organize us, they will make us more into a working unit and we may even play better and achieve better results, but the increments would be small. Our ultimate improvements would be determined by our pool of very limited footballers.  "

 

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4 minutes ago, mrniaboc said:

I agree with you that revolution in the SFA and Scottish football would be amazing, but practically speaking it's not gonna happen any time soon. You're hunting unicorns while I just want to see my team not getting embarrassed on the pitch any more, and I think that would improve with a good manager. We actually have decent players! 

And as masochistic as it sounds, I DON'T want our results to improve.

I want things to get so bad and so embarrassing that change would HAVE to come in. 

Would us being 100 in the rankings make people stand up and demand change? Maybe not, but nearer 200 and it would.

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I coach in grassroots football, all this talk of basic skills is pish. We have as much talent coming through as ever, I would probably say more.

The problems are when it gets serious and boys are vying for contracts and getting rejected by clubs because they are too wee or slow at sprinting.

We have the players coming through, we just need a manager who can gel them into a team.

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50 minutes ago, Chripper said:

Is NOT the issue!

We could have Pochettino, Mourinho, Sir Alex Ferguson, Jurgen Klopp, etc. Does anyone honestly think that things would improve?

Fine, Okay, a good manager will organize us, they will make us more into a working unit and we may even play better and achieve better results, but the increments would be small. Our ultimate improvements would be determined by our pool of very limited footballers. 

Chopping and changing managers isn't the answer. The answer is forcing the SFA to make major and radical change to Scottish football. If they're willing to do this then they should step aside for people who will. How can we do this? Boycotting matches. Not buying tickets. Not buying official merchandise. If people did attend matches it would be great to hear a MASSIVE chorus of "sack the board", etc. Banners, etc. Picketing Hampden demanding change. Anything that we can do get those people out of their cushy jobs where they're doing nothing.

This might sound like all white noise that the SFA would ignore, but if the media picked up on it and there was that much discontent then I firmly believe that change would happen. 

Soon Rod Petrie will be the new SFA president. This isn't a football man, what credentials does he have to adjudicate over Scottish footballing matters? The guy is a qualified chartered accountant. Which makes sense, as all the SFA do is collect our money.

People celebrating the ousting of Alex McLeish should take a beat to look at the big picture. The foreground is changing, but the background isn't, and It won't if we stand up for change.

I'm certainly not celebrating.

 

It's not the main issue but McLeish was a gibbling mess and should have been nowhere near the job. A decent manager CAN make a difference in the short term.

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1 minute ago, runningtings said:

I coach in grassroots football, all this talk of basic skills is pish. We have as much talent coming through as ever, I would probably say more.

The problems are when it gets serious and boys are vying for contracts and getting rejected by clubs because they are too wee or slow at sprinting.

We have the players coming through, we just need a manager who can gel them into a team.

Valid point. 

Robertson was rejected by Celtic because he was too small.

Our kids don't have the skill-set which is why their careers always stall when they reach 18/19. Kids abroad have the fundamentals drilled into them from an early age, which is why as adults they can fall back of those skills. Just look at our professionals, under any kind of duress they lump the ball as far as they can. If they were trained properly as kids their football/muscle memory would kick in and they'd deal with the situation whilst keeping the ball in the process.

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2 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

It's not the main issue but McLeish was a gibbling mess and should have been nowhere near the job

Agreed.

It's about time we all agreed that the SFA just don't care about the fans, about the national team and they don't care if things are gloomy or sunny.

I wanted McLeish to go, but I want the SFA to go 100% more.

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16 minutes ago, Chripper said:

We have Fraser, Robertson, Tierney and McTominay. 

That's 4 high class football players, all potentially playing at the very top level within the next year or 2. There are many countries flourishing that would kill to have players thriving at Man Utd and Liverpool.

We actually do have a good pool of players. What we've missed is 1 or 2 top class players, which it looks like we may actually have now. What we need now is a manager that commands respect and can get everyone to show up.

I'm certainly not defending McLeish, but he only had half the first team squad to work with most games. That is probably a reflection of him more than anything.

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6 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

It's not the main issue but McLeish was a gibbling mess and should have been nowhere near the job. A decent manager CAN make a difference in the short term.

Of course it can.  Killie are the perfect example of what a good manager can achieve.

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2 minutes ago, Tartan blood said:

That's 4 high class football players, all potentially playing at the very top level within the next year or 2. There are many countries flourishing that would kill to have players thriving at Man Utd and Liverpool.

We actually do have a good pool of players. What we've missed is 1 or 2 top class players, which it looks like we may actually have now. What we need now is a manager that commands respect and can get everyone to show up.

I'm certainly not defending McLeish, but he only had half the first team squad to work with most games. That is probably a reflection of him more than anything.

Let's be honest, though, we've produced those four out of a combination of luck and personal stubbornness and professions: Robertson was rejected by Celtic, if it was up to Celtic and he was weak willed then he'd still be packing the shelves at Marks and Spencer's. McTominay is a product of Man United's academy, Tierney and Fraser were produced because out of sheer luck rather than design.

I don't care about the here and now, all I care about is a long term solution.

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2 minutes ago, Chripper said:

Let's be honest, though, we've produced those four out of a combination of luck and personal stubbornness and professions: Robertson was rejected by Celtic, if it was up to Celtic and he was weak willed then he'd still be packing the shelves at Marks and Spencer's. McTominay is a product of Man United's academy, Tierney and Fraser were produced because out of sheer luck rather than design.

I don't care about the here and now, all I care about is a long term solution.

I wholeheartedly agree there needs to be a massive overhaul of the entire system. I think most of us agree with that. 

Whether it was chance or design, I think we are overdue a bit of luck when it comes to players. Wales seem to replace 1 World Class player for another every generation. We deserve someone to idolise. Someone to drag a good group of players up a level. Now we (potentially) have a few. Let's get the right manager in to utilise them properly, whilst reparations are made in the background to fix the long term damage.

 

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1 minute ago, Tartan blood said:

I wholeheartedly agree there needs to be a massive overhaul of the entire system. I think most of us agree with that. 

Whether it was chance or design, I think we are overdue a bit of luck when it comes to players. Wales seem to replace 1 World Class player for another every generation. We deserve someone to idolise. Someone to drag a good group of players up a level. Now we (potentially) have a few. Let's get the right manager in to utilise them properly, whilst reparations are made in the background to fix the long term damage.

 

Wales have been extremely lucky to get players like Bale and then Ramsey. But we've have had McFadden and Fletcher in that time. If someone wants to rip me for saying that McFadde was comparable to Bale, please feel free. McFadden pulled out trees for us and produced magic and he scored against teams like Holland, Spain, France. Hardly minnows. And yes, I'd say that Fletcher was better than Ramsey.

I may be alone in this one, but I want things to get worse. I want us to plummet in the rankings and things to be so bad that there has to be change.

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6 minutes ago, bigfingers said:

We have Tierney, Robertson, Fraser, Mctominay, Mcgregor, Christie, Forrest, Mcginn.

Not all of them play well for Scotland but they certainly play well for their clubs. A good manager can change this.

To say we don't have the players doesn't cut it with me.

I'll give you Forrest, but the other three are awful.

Christie and McGregor have only looked good against free transfers in the SPL. And for McGinn, he's the McEnergizer Bunny, nothing more.

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1 minute ago, Chripper said:

Wales have been extremely lucky to get players like Bale and then Ramsey. But we've have had McFadden and Fletcher in that time. If someone wants to rip me for saying that McFadde was comparable to Bale, please feel free. McFadden pulled out trees for us and produced magic and he scored against teams like Holland, Spain, France. Hardly minnows. And yes, I'd say that Fletcher was better than Ramsey.

I may be alone in this one, but I want things to get worse. I want us to plummet in the rankings and things to be so bad that there has to be change.

I see where you're coming from, but can it really get worse than being embarrassed by Kazakhstan? If that doesn't make them stand up and pay attention, I don't think much will. If it got worse, they'd see it as a losing battle and likely invest less effort.

I agree regarding McFadden and Fletcher. Add Gordon and Hutton (at his peak) to that. Burley squandered an amazing opportunity after McLeish quit first time round. 

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2 minutes ago, Chripper said:

Wales have been extremely lucky to get players like Bale and then Ramsey. But we've have had McFadden and Fletcher in that time. If someone wants to rip me for saying that McFadde was comparable to Bale, please feel free. McFadden pulled out trees for us and produced magic and he scored against teams like Holland, Spain, France. Hardly minnows. And yes, I'd say that Fletcher was better than Ramsey.

I may be alone in this one, but I want things to get worse. I want us to plummet in the rankings and things to be so bad that there has to be change.

Yeah, fuck being good or even decent, we want to be pish. In fact get McLeish on the phone, tell him we've changed out mind. And get him to give Lebrun the assistant post. 

I get your point, but that has to be one of the most fucking mental posts I've ever read on this board, and that's saying something. The bit about Fletcher and Mcfadden included.

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1 minute ago, tartanmartin said:

A decent centre back of two and a finisher up front and we'd be looking upwards with the other players mentioned above.

McKenna/Souttar/Griffiths may be the short term answers. A good manager could get that group going places.

Can't disagree with that.

 

1 minute ago, stevenmcn said:

Yeah, fuck being good or even decent, we want to be pish. In fact get McLeish on the phone, tell him we've changed out mind. And get him to give Lebrun the assistant post. 

I get your point, but that has to be one of the most fucking mental posts I've ever read on this board, and that's saying something. The bit about Fletcher and Mcfadden included.

I want us to be crap. I'm 100% serious with this one. I want the SFA out, and if that means we get worse, then I suppose I'd take it. Wouldn't you?

Fletcher was verging towards world class, I think we all saw this, even United fans who hated him to begin with. 

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