Thank you Alex McLeish

[dandydunn]

On 4/18/2019 at 4:23 PM, Terry Munro said:

Do people not realise that we needed more than a draw to qualify that day? 

Or that our goal was offside?

[Barney Rubble]

24 minutes ago, dandydunn said:

Or that our goal was offside?

Or that Di Natale was falsely called offside for a perfectly valid goal five minutes before half time.

[dandydunn]

6 hours ago, Barney Rubble said:

Or that Di Natale was falsely called offside for a perfectly valid goal five minutes before half time.

‘‘Twas all the officials fault though because of that free kick 🙄😂

[Terry Munro]

9 hours ago, dandydunn said:

Or that our goal was offside?

Forgot about that myself actually.

[Return of Yermaw]

2 hours ago, dandydunn said:

‘‘Twas all the officials fault though because of that free kick 🙄😂

maybe one or two believe that. but in looking at it objectively the decision was inexplicable. 

[Caledonian Craig]

Regardless of whether we got so close to qualifying in that campaign it is worth a heck of a lot of credit to still be in the shake-up up until the final fixture considering we were in a group containing France, Italy and Ukraine.

This is something that pisses me off with Scotland fans. We are proclaimed as the best in the world but you have to question that considering how much trash we throw at our own players and managers. Gary McAllister booed into retirement because he dared to miss a penalty against England, McLeish harangued and so many more stories too. These players and managers have done their best for their country and they should be thanked for their years of service. Criticism is fine to a point but many times people take it way too far.

For those that have commented so far it is not directed at them but a general observation in recent years.

Edited April 20, 2019 by Caledonian Craig

[vanderark14]

5 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Regardless of whether we got so close to qualifying in that campaign it is worth a heck of a lot of credit to still be in the shake-up up until the final fixture considering we were in a group containing France, Italy and Ukraine.

This is something that pisses me off with Scotland fans. We are proclaimed as the best in the world but you have to question that considering how much trash we throw at our own players and managers. Gary McAllister booed into retirement because he dared to miss a penalty against England, McLeish harangued and so many more stories too. These players and managers have done their best for their country and they should be thanked for their years of service. Criticism is fine to a point but many times people take it way too far.

For those that have commented so far it is not directed at them but a general observation in recent years.

I am not disagreeing with you re McLiesh and McAllister but there's also a section of fans who are too soft on our players, managers and the SFA. I am glad some of the fans are turning on the team and SFA now because the performances do not reflect the talent we have.

[thplinth]

Italy and France had just contested a world cup final between them I seem to recall. Throw in a half decent Ukraine side and it was a Group of Death draw. We were never qualifying out of that group but McLeish actually gave us a real chance. It was the Georgia game away that did us. Players never showed up that night (day?) was my (bad) memory. If we had had any qualification group in the years before or after I am convinced McLeish would have got us qualified in his first term as manager... and he would now be considered one of our great managers having broken the hoodoo. His second spell did not work out, it was too late for him by that point. Some of the venom directed at the guy on here is pathetic IMHO. Reading it makes me think some of you get exactly what you deserve for a national team. No wonder players don't seem that interested at times.

Edited April 20, 2019 by thplinth

[Caledonian Craig]

8 minutes ago, thplinth said:

Italy and France had just contested a world cup final between them I seem to recall. Throw in a half decent Ukraine side and it was a Group of Death draw. We were never qualifying out of that group but McLeish actually gave us a real chance. It was the Georgia game away that did us. Players never showed up that night (day?) was my (bad) memory. If we had had any qualification group in the years before or after I am convinced McLeish would have got us qualified in his first term as manager... and he would now be considered one of our great managers having broken the hoodoo. His second spell did not work out, it was too late for him by that point. Some of the venom directed at the guy on here is pathetic IMHO. Reading it makes me think some of you get exactly what you deserve for a national team. No wonder players don't seem that interested at times.

I have to agree with pretty much all of that.

[kumnio]

1 hour ago, thplinth said:

Italy and France had just contested a world cup final between them I seem to recall. Throw in a half decent Ukraine side and it was a Group of Death draw. We were never qualifying out of that group but McLeish actually gave us a real chance. It was the Georgia game away that did us. Players never showed up that night (day?) was my (bad) memory. If we had had any qualification group in the years before or after I am convinced McLeish would have got us qualified in his first term as manager... and he would now be considered one of our great managers having broken the hoodoo. His second spell did not work out, it was too late for him by that point. Some of the venom directed at the guy on here is pathetic IMHO. Reading it makes me think some of you get exactly what you deserve for a national team. No wonder players don't seem that interested at times.

Thats forgetting Walter Smith managed the first 4 games of that group, Under Smith..

• Beat Faroe Islands at home
• Beat Lithuania away
• Beat France at home
• Lost to Ukraine away

Smith then resigned to go back to Ibrox, and McLeish came in..

• Beat Georgia at home
• Lost to Italy away
• Beat Faroe Islands away
• Beat Lithuania at home
• Beat France away
• Beat Ukraine at home
• Lost to Georgia away
• Lost to Italy at home

My recollection was that McLeish kept things going after Smith left, that tactics and players were pretty much consistent during that time. 

Some bad words aimed towards him online is tame, the way some people have reacted on here, you would think fans were outside his door ready to burn him at the stake. IMO, Scotland fans are far too placid, and put up with far too much shite. San Marino was the first game that Ive witnessed booing and chanting towards the SFA at any real level, and even then it was half hearted.

[Return of Yermaw]

3 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Gary McAllister booed into retirement because he dared to miss a penalty against England, McLeish harangued and so many more stories too. These players and managers have done their best for their country and they should be thanked for their years of service. Criticism is fine to a point but many times people take it way too far.

For those that have commented so far it is not directed at them but a general observation in recent years.

you're re-writing history to suit your agenda a bit there. McAllister was boo'ed on his return due to poor performances. it was frustration at that and Brown's insistence on picking an off form player. nothing to do with a penalty from 3-4 years previous. 

[Catchart Circle]

52 minutes ago, Return of Yermaw said:

you're re-writing history to suit your agenda a bit there. McAllister was boo'ed on his return due to poor performances. it was frustration at that and Brown's insistence on picking an off form player. nothing to do with a penalty from 3-4 years previous. 

The thing about McAllister was he took the captains responsibility too far and he wanted to take every free kick, every corner, etc.

He was very committed and always turned up but a lot of fans felt he should not have been the skipper. I recall Tam Cowan around the time of the France 98 qualifers saying no matter what he did there were no circumstances under which Brown would demote him from the captaincy, and he was correct..

Lambert would have been a better captain in my opinion although McAllister was a quality player without doubt and quite possibly our best at the time.

There was however a very unsympathetic reaction to his withdrawal from the France World Cup with many fans of the opinion it boosted the teams chances if we had another captain.

Events at Wembley in Euro 96 were not responsible for him being booed in his last game V the Czechs at Celtic Park three years later. Always thought that was a myth - it was his constant `my ball' attitude plus a couple of misplaced passes in that game when we were behind.

There, I managed to get through a whole post about McAllister without mentioning the word penalty - well almost!

Edited April 20, 2019 by Catchart Circle
error

[Texas Pete]

4 hours ago, thplinth said:

Italy and France had just contested a world cup final between them I seem to recall. Throw in a half decent Ukraine side and it was a Group of Death draw. We were never qualifying out of that group but McLeish actually gave us a real chance. It was the Georgia game away that did us. Players never showed up that night (day?) was my (bad) memory. If we had had any qualification group in the years before or after I am convinced McLeish would have got us qualified in his first term as manager... and he would now be considered one of our great managers having broken the hoodoo. His second spell did not work out, it was too late for him by that point. Some of the venom directed at the guy on here is pathetic IMHO. Reading it makes me think some of you get exactly what you deserve for a national team. No wonder players don't seem that interested at times.

8 years wasn’t exactly a hoodoo. We had only missed 4 tournaments at that stage but I get your point.

McLeish has been vilified and the buck does stop with the manager but the players on the pitch in Kazakhstan need to have a good look at themselves. They were an utter embarrassment to their country and they have ultimately cost McLeish his job. Alex Ferguson or Jock Stein wouldn’t have got us a win that day. 

The number of call offs is also a disgrace. Hopefully the new manager will inspire our players and they might actually bother their arse trying for him. They didn’t try for McLeish. 

[Catchart Circle]

3 hours ago, Texas Pete said:

The number of call offs is also a disgrace. Hopefully the new manager will inspire our players and they might actually bother their arse trying for him. They didn’t try for McLeish. 

The worrying thing is that there is a three week gap between the last Premier League fixtures and the Cyprus game so I expect more of the same.

The Celtic and Hearts players obviously have a fortnight but Celtic will be looking at getting their players ready for the Champions League qualifiers.

Edited April 20, 2019 by Catchart Circle

[Texas Pete]

56 minutes ago, Catchart Circle said:

The worrying thing is that there is a three week gap between the last Premier League fixtures and the Cyprus game so I expect more of the same.

The Celtic and Hearts players obviously have a fortnight but Celtic will be looking at getting their players ready for the Champions League qualifiers.

Luckily we should beat Cyprus comfortably regardless of the line up (famous last words) and Belgium will tear us a new arse so I’m not that concerned about players pulling out this time but it will end up costing us. 

I’m more concerned about who will be in charge in June. 

[thplinth]

12 hours ago, kumnio said:

Thats forgetting Walter Smith managed the first 4 games of that group, Under Smith..

• Beat Faroe Islands at home
• Beat Lithuania away
• Beat France at home
• Lost to Ukraine away

Smith then resigned to go back to Ibrox, and McLeish came in..

• Beat Georgia at home
• Lost to Italy away
• Beat Faroe Islands away
• Beat Lithuania at home
• Beat France away
• Beat Ukraine at home
• Lost to Georgia away
• Lost to Italy at home

My recollection was that McLeish kept things going after Smith left, that tactics and players were pretty much consistent during that time. 

Some bad words aimed towards him online is tame, the way some people have reacted on here, you would think fans were outside his door ready to burn him at the stake. IMO, Scotland fans are far too placid, and put up with far too much shite. San Marino was the first game that Ive witnessed booing and chanting towards the SFA at any real level, and even then it was half hearted.

That Georgia game... if we had won that one how would have it ended all other things being equal? (Not excusing McLeish just curious.)

Edited April 20, 2019 by thplinth

[kumnio]

3 hours ago, thplinth said:

That Georgia game... if we had won that one how would have it ended all other things being equal? (Not excusing McLeish just curious.)

It ended up with Italy 29, France 26, Scotland 24. France drew their final game in Ukraine 2-2, but the result effectively didn’t matter.

Had we won in Georgia, we would have had 27, but we most likely needed a draw against Italy to guarantee qualification. 

 

[Orraloon]

10 hours ago, kumnio said:

It ended up with Italy 29, France 26, Scotland 24. France drew their final game in Ukraine 2-2, but the result effectively didn’t matter.

Had we won in Georgia, we would have had 27, but we most likely needed a draw against Italy to guarantee qualification. 

 

Aye, if we had beaten Georgia, a draw against Italy would have guaranteed qualification as we had a better head to head with France. 

I remember thinking at the time that a draw in Georgia was no good to us, as it was effectively the same as a defeat the way everything was stacked up. So we had to go for the win. 

I have a feeling that if we had beat Georgia we would still have gone out. Italy would beat us at Hampden and if they had to, I think France would have won in Ukraine. It would have been good to have put a wee bit of pressure on them though. 

[kumnio]

3 hours ago, Orraloon said:

Aye, if we had beaten Georgia, a draw against Italy would have guaranteed qualification as we had a better head to head with France. 

I remember thinking at the time that a draw in Georgia was no good to us, as it was effectively the same as a defeat the way everything was stacked up. So we had to go for the win. 

I have a feeling that if we had beat Georgia we would still have gone out. Italy would beat us at Hampden and if they had to, I think France would have won in Ukraine. It would have been good to have put a wee bit of pressure on them though. 

Very long time ago, but I think thats what I remembered feeling as well. 

Getting beat by Italy wasnt a bad thing, if we had drawn the game, both us and France would have had 25 points, and we would all be glued to Ukraine v France a few days later like desperate lunatics hoping for a home win.

[Orraloon]

1 hour ago, kumnio said:

Very long time ago, but I think thats what I remembered feeling as well. 

Getting beat by Italy wasnt a bad thing, if we had drawn the game, both us and France would have had 25 points, and we would all be glued to Ukraine v France a few days later like desperate lunatics hoping for a home win.

And Ukraine scored after 15 minutes too.