kumnio Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 Just now, scotlad said: The bit about him spouting gibberish was a wee bit out of line, I thought, considering some of the rumours about his health (which I hope aren't true). The rest was fair comment. McLeish said something along the lines of 'We started the game very well', this was in reference to the Kazakhstan game where we were 2-0 after 10 minutes. Thats absolute gibberish. If thats out of line, jesus, we must be living through the softest time ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, kumnio said: So no answer then. I was 13 when McLeish last played for Scotland, I quite simply cant remember him as a player. His first spell as a manager was (relatively speaking) a success, that was however a decade ago, since then, he has been a monumental flop. Why should he get special treatment for that? Thats a serious question, I dont buy into this loyalty nonsense. Maybe abusing was the wrong term, being disrespectful is probably more accurate. Dinosaur isn't particularly a flattering description but going on about him talking gibberish when he's clearly not well is out of order, IMHO. It's not about loyalty, as I said, he shouldn't have been given the job in the first place, it's about having a proper level of respect for what someone has done in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumnio Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 1 minute ago, aaid said: Maybe abusing was the wrong term, being disrespectful is probably more accurate. Dinosaur isn't particularly a flattering description but going on about him talking gibberish when he's clearly not well is out of order, IMHO. It's not about loyalty, as I said, he shouldn't have been given the job in the first place, it's about having a proper level of respect for what someone has done in the past. Gibberish is now unacceptable, I find this absolutely staggering. If he is that clearly not well, then he should A, never have been appointed B, not put himself in this situation C, seek help, instead of willfully destroying his reputation for one final pay cheque. This is an internet forum, people being happy that someone has been sacked, and pointing out their very obvious flaws is incredibly tame. No one is knocking down McLeishs door, shouting abuse at him on the street, talking aim at him in public etc. Respect is both earned, and a two way street. McLeish deserved it the first time, he certainly didnt earn it the second time. Although I doubt we will agree on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotlad Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, kumnio said: McLeish said something along the lines of 'We started the game very well', this was in reference to the Kazakhstan game where we were 2-0 after 10 minutes. Thats absolute gibberish. If thats out of line, jesus, we must be living through the softest time ever. If - and it's a big 'if' - the rumours of him having some kind of cognitive impairment are true then its a harsh thing to say. He might not have, of course, and I hope he hasn't, but I can just understand why it made some people bristle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catchart Circle Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 (edited) 41 minutes ago, aaid said: It's because you're not old enough to remember his first spell in charge - about the only time in the last 20 years when we've actually had any hope - and also his time as a player. Criticism in fair enough, abusing a guy who is rightly a Scotland legend isn't. Sorry his first spell in charge was failure. Six points from France (three under McLeish) yet we still finished behind them in the group. It's nonsense if anyone says he masteminded victory in Paris. He was playing for a 0-0 (nothing wrong with that) and Faddys shot could have gone anywhere in what was a pretty awful game. I never forgave McLeish for Tibblissi when it took us about 70 minutes to muster a shot on target against a 17 year old rookie keeper who was clearly vulnerable. After the Italy game he travelled to the World Cup draw fully in the knowledge he was leaving for Birmingham a few later. His career capitulated and he left Brum in the Championship where they remain today before jumping ship to Villa for £1m who he almost took down. https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/aston-villa/2012/02/08/villa-fans-set-to-protest-against-mcleish/ I agree he was a great player for Scotland and a nice guy yes but someone with no sense of loyalty who is very money orientated and an absolute dud of a manager who tried to be something he was not. He used the Scotland job to further his career/income after the SFA had taken a chance on him when he was out of work. Edited April 18, 2019 by Catchart Circle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 9 minutes ago, Catchart Circle said: Sorry his first spell in charge was failure. Six points from France (three under McLeish) yet we still finished behind them in the group. It's nonsense if anyone says he masteminded victory in Paris. He was playing for a 0-0 (nothing wrong with that) and Faddys shot could have gone anywhere in what was a pretty awful game. I never forgave McLeish for Tibblissi when it took us about 70 minutes to muster a shot on target against a 17 year old rookie keeper who was clearly vulnerable. After the Italy game he travelled to the World Cup draw fully in the knowledge he was leaving for Birmingham a few later. His career capitulated and he left Brum in the Championship where they remain today before jumping ship to Villa for £1m who he almost took down. https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/aston-villa/2012/02/08/villa-fans-set-to-protest-against-mcleish/ I agree he was a great player for Scotland and a nice guy yes but someone with no sense of loyalty who is very money orientated and an absolute dud of a manager who tried to be something he was not. He used the Scotland job to further his career/income after the SFA had taken a chance on him when he was out of work. I see you're conveniently leaving out him winning the League Cup with Birmingham City, their first major trophy win in nearly 50 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 Good riddance, I’d have a bit more respect for him if he quit right after Kazakhstan. Legend as a player, did very well in 2007 and deserved any luck he may have received but an absolute shocking appointment, glad Grant and Faddy are gone as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan cake Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 1 minute ago, ParisInAKilt said: Good riddance, I’d have a bit more respect for him if he quit right after Kazakhstan. Legend as a player, did very well in 2007 and deserved any luck he may have received but an absolute shocking appointment, glad Grant and Faddy are gone as well. This Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 27 minutes ago, kumnio said: Gibberish is now unacceptable, I find this absolutely staggering. If he is that clearly not well, then he should A, never have been appointed B, not put himself in this situation C, seek help, instead of willfully destroying his reputation for one final pay cheque. This is an internet forum, people being happy that someone has been sacked, and pointing out their very obvious flaws is incredibly tame. No one is knocking down McLeishs door, shouting abuse at him on the street, talking aim at him in public etc. Respect is both earned, and a two way street. McLeish deserved it the first time, he certainly didnt earn it the second time. Although I doubt we will agree on this. Well said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Munro Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 30 minutes ago, scotlad said: If - and it's a big 'if' - the rumours of him having some kind of cognitive impairment are true then its a harsh thing to say. He might not have, of course, and I hope he hasn't, but I can just understand why it made some people bristle. He was talking gibberish. That can't be denied. If an illness is the reason for that, then it's still to be confirmed and it would be a real shame for the guy but it hasn't yet, so don't think that can be used to say someone is being disrespectful or abusive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ElChris04 Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 42 minutes ago, kumnio said: Gibberish is now unacceptable, I find this absolutely staggering. If he is that clearly not well, then he should A, never have been appointed B, not put himself in this situation C, seek help, instead of willfully destroying his reputation for one final pay cheque. This is an internet forum, people being happy that someone has been sacked, and pointing out their very obvious flaws is incredibly tame. No one is knocking down McLeishs door, shouting abuse at him on the street, talking aim at him in public etc. Respect is both earned, and a two way street. McLeish deserved it the first time, he certainly didnt earn it the second time. Although I doubt we will agree on this. Well said mate, good to know there is still many people on here who Understood my point and didn’t try and twist my words. My criticism was on him as a manager. Nothing more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Terry Munro said: He was talking gibberish. That can't be denied. If an illness is the reason for that, then it's still to be confirmed and it would be a real shame for the guy but it hasn't yet, so don't think that can be used to say someone is being disrespectful or abusive. Exactly. Edited April 18, 2019 by ParisInAKilt Talking gibberish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ElChris04 Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, aaid said: It's because you're not old enough to remember his first spell in charge - about the only time in the last 20 years when we've actually had any hope - and also his time as a player. Criticism in fair enough, abusing a guy who is rightly a Scotland legend isn't. Abusing? Absolutely shocking term to use. My criticism was on him as a Manger, I would never sink as low to insult a man if he is as ill as rumoured to be. The gibberish term was used the same way I would say if a manager was talking shite to not make a result as bad like Mcleish ssying “we started good” against Kazakhstan when we clearly didn’t. Can’t believe the way some of my words have been twisted. I said what many are saying and as I explained my criticism was on him as a manager on his 12 games. Absolutely no shape or form was it directed to him or his well-being. Edited April 18, 2019 by ElChris04 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ormond Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 8 minutes ago, ElChris04 said: Abusing? Absolutely shocking term to use. My criticism was on him as a Manger, I would never sink as low to insult a man if he is as ill as rumoured to be. The gibberish term was used the same way I would say if a manager was talking shite to not make a result as bad like Mcleish ssying “we started good” against Kazakhstan when we clearly didn’t. Can’t believe the way some of my words have been twisted. I said what many are saying and as I explained my criticism was on him as a manager on his 12 games. Absolutely no shape or form was it directed to him or his well-being. You are absolutely correct and ignore aaid’s pish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
er yir macaroon Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 55 minutes ago, ElChris04 said: Abusing? Absolutely shocking term to use. My criticism was on him as a Manger, I would never sink as low to insult a man if he is as ill as rumoured to be. The gibberish term was used the same way I would say if a manager was talking shite to not make a result as bad like Mcleish ssying “we started good” against Kazakhstan when we clearly didn’t. Can’t believe the way some of my words have been twisted. I said what many are saying and as I explained my criticism was on him as a manager on his 12 games. Absolutely no shape or form was it directed to him or his well-being. Fair enough, but there was a level of zeal there which, if he does turn out to be ill, you may regret using. This may be irrelevant, but the guy has 77 caps and in my eyes is a Scotland legend. He left at the end of a campaign as a young manager with a chance of financial security for life. He didn’t leave us in the lurch mid-campaign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wee-toon-red Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 As someone who also posted about people being abusive about McLeish, it's probably fair to clarify that I didn't necessarily mean the OP, although it was this thread that reminded me that some of the stuff that was written about him post-Kazhakstan was unacceptable. I've seen plenty of posts referring to him as a cunt, and arsehole or whatever and that's not fair on a guy who was trying his best, even if his reign was a disaster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chripper Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 7 minutes ago, wee-toon-red said: I've seen plenty of posts referring to him as a cunt, and arsehole or whatever That's the sign of the times and it just shows the burgeoning intellect of society. Personally, I've been called every name under the sun in this place, but I see it as a hand handed compliment. That's what they should teach kids who are the victim of bullying, cyber or otherwise. If it saved even one kid from suicide then the advice would've been worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 31 minutes ago, er yir macaroon said: Fair enough, but there was a level of zeal there which, if he does turn out to be ill, you may regret using. This may be irrelevant, but the guy has 77 caps and in my eyes is a Scotland legend. He left at the end of a campaign as a young manager with a chance of financial security for life. He didn’t leave us in the lurch mid-campaign. Why? He can’t be that ill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farcity Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 Im a published author you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 49 minutes ago, Chripper said: That's the sign of the times and it just shows the burgeoning intellect of society. Personally, I've been called every name under the sun in this place, but I see it as a hand handed compliment. That's what they should teach kids who are the victim of bullying, cyber or otherwise. If it saved even one kid from suicide then the advice would've been worth it. Author, football tactical expert and now child therapist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chripper Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 1 minute ago, ParisInAKilt said: Author, football tactical expert and now child therapist No. I'm not an author yet. But yes to the last two, but not just Children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ElChris04 Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 1 hour ago, er yir macaroon said: Fair enough, but there was a level of zeal there which, if he does turn out to be ill, you may regret using. This may be irrelevant, but the guy has 77 caps and in my eyes is a Scotland legend. He left at the end of a campaign as a young manager with a chance of financial security for life. He didn’t leave us in the lurch mid-campaign. Again, I have nothing to regret. There was no malice in my comments directing to his health, again wouldn’t sink that though. It’s a game off football at the end of the day and my opinion was solely on his 12 game performance as our manger. I honestly don’t know what else to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chripper Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 6 minutes ago, ElChris04 said: Again, I have nothing to regret. There was no malice in my comments directing to his health, again wouldn’t sink that though. It’s a game off football at the end of the day and my opinion was solely on his 12 game performance as our manger. I honestly don’t know what else to say. Mate, you don't have to say anything, as you did nothing wrong. Just leave it be. There are certain people here who are... well... for the lack of a better terms, wimps. They say things to you on here that they wouldn't dare say to your face. Personally, in this place people have tried to score points off me since the day I registered, but they haven't scored a single point. It's nice that they keep trying. I hope they do, as perseverance is the key to perfection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XB52 Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 3 hours ago, aaid said: It's because you're not old enough to remember his first spell in charge - about the only time in the last 20 years when we've actually had any hope - and also his time as a player. Criticism in fair enough, abusing a guy who is rightly a Scotland legend isn't. he criticised him for his stint as Scotland manager in the last 14 months. McLeish did a good job first time around before he jumped ship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farcity Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Chripper said: No. I'm not an author yet. But yes to the last two, but not just Children. Only a matter of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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