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Chripper

Ajax

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Watching the Ajax vs Juventus match it just strikes me just how much Scottish clubs and the SFA just don't care about bringing through youngsters. They've never cared. When we did produce world class players it was more by sheer luck than design.

The average age of this Ajax team is 22/23 and they've beaten a seasoned Bayern Munich team and a big spending Juventus team. They weren't lucky, they didn't park the bus and play negative football that relied on dropping deep and countering on the odd occasion. Ajax actually out played, out passed, out moved and out thought Munich and Juventus.

The sheer negligence with regards homegrown talent is an epidemic in Scotland. The scary thing is that no one in Scottish football, past or present, has had the foresight or the intelligence to devise a clear blueprint for creating superstars. No Scottish club has ever implemented anything near to what Ajax has, and what they've always has done.

When Celtic and Rangers fail in Europe they bring out the old "we're only rubbish because we're a product of our environment", which is an excuse which Ajax has firmly debunked. The Dutch league isn't a top league, some of the defending in that league can be comical at times, but that isn't the point, the point is that in that league teams are bringing through their own players because generally they have enough brains to realize that bringing through stars and selling them for top dollar is a fantastic way to run a football club from a pretty poor league. For some reason the Old Firm have thought themselves above this method. They watched Ajax produce players like Kluivert, Seedorf, Davids, Overmars, etc, and even Barcelona with Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, etc. But nahh! The Old Firm are too big to do that!

When Rangers were at the top of the tree what did they do? Flood the team with foreigners. Yay! What did Celtic do to counter it? Flood the team with foreigners! Yay! What did the SFA do? Take holidays, go to fancy restaurants , etc, and pretty much let the Odd Couples do as they please.

Watching this Ajax team (7 of the 11 players who played last night came through their academy) makes you despise the SFA and the entire structure of Scottish football. Here's a team of kids playing the most delightful football you've ever seen in your life, and look at our youngsters, they have no match intelligence, they trap a ball in the time that it takes a youngster from a top nation to already pass and move, they have no skill, no flair, no creativity, god, our older players even struggle with the basics!

And before anyone says "there's no money in Scottish football". What, there's money in Dutch football? Even Iceland put us to shame with the facilities that they have. It doesn't take a fortune to round up youngsters of 5+, promise their parents that they'll be coached in a professional manner by decent coaches who know what they're doing, hire facilities, etc. Celtic and Rangers could've easily have did this, and with their resources they could've dotted professional academies all over Scotland. And as for the SFA, they easily have the money to equal what Iceland have build for their kids, but they won't, because they don't have to. They're fine with the national team treading water.

Total football

Edited by Chripper

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Depressingly accurate to a point.  However... I wouldn't say Ajax have had a non-stop conveyor belt of talent going back decades.  They hit a real purple patch in the early 70's obviously and then started to churn players out for the first team in the mid 90's, but apart from that there's not been too much from them at the highest level.

Maybe there's been a bit of luck involved too with such a load of quality appearing at once?  Time will tell on that one.

Our clubs should be learning from the likes of Ajax of course, but you still need the raw material in the first place - ye cannae mak a silk purse, etc.  

I think our problems run a bit deeper than not having Ajax-style academies at our clubs.  It'd maybe be a start though.

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whilst ajax have produced players form their academy, they have always spent big on promising youngsters from around the world - its not all home grown.

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Well, the problem that the old firm have is that the fan base is not exactly patient. They want instant success and to an extent, so do the chairmen. Pulling resources out of winning the title this season, and putting it into maybe producing a player worth having in 10 years time is not something that is easy to get past money men. Ajax can do it because they've always done it, since before 'money in football' was really a thing. It was part of the club identity for longer than i've been alive.

As for what the SFA can do.. I don't think anyone can shout from the rooftops about the great work they've done over the last 20 years. Sadly there doesn't seem to be a lot we can do to get them to change tack.

 

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All valid points.

Do you know what's funny? (not in a "ha-ha" way, more like a" boiling of the blood" way) I've read a lot of great ideas in this place, a lot of really progressive stuff, but the people who could make a difference simply do not have a clue, and if they did they don't have the motivation to make change.

We all love and care about the national team, but the simple truth is that the SFA don't. They just use as their meal ticket, as long as the money comes rolling in they're perfectly content to sit on their hands and keep delivering nothing.

There won't be a big crowd for the Cyprus match, we all know this, and it's not because of malaise, it's gone far deeper than that. It's crossing into anger territory. As Scotland fans we've taken everything on the chin, we've kept getting up with a smile, but it's time to punch back. Whether that means boycotting matches and merchandise or chanting during matches and making banners to show our discontent. If we do it en mass then the message will filter through to the media and you know what they're like when they have prey in their sights.

Anything is better than nothing, and nothing is what we're all guilty of.

We need football men at the top of the SFA, we need people who love the Scotland national team as much as us.

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21 hours ago, Chripper said:

All valid points.

Do you know what's funny? (not in a "ha-ha" way, more like a" boiling of the blood" way) I've read a lot of great ideas in this place, a lot of really progressive stuff, but the people who could make a difference simply do not have a clue, and if they did they don't have the motivation to make change.

We all love and care about the national team, but the simple truth is that the SFA don't. They just use as their meal ticket, as long as the money comes rolling in they're perfectly content to sit on their hands and keep delivering nothing.

There won't be a big crowd for the Cyprus match, we all know this, and it's not because of malaise, it's gone far deeper than that. It's crossing into anger territory. As Scotland fans we've taken everything on the chin, we've kept getting up with a smile, but it's time to punch back. Whether that means boycotting matches and merchandise or chanting during matches and making banners to show our discontent. If we do it en mass then the message will filter through to the media and you know what they're like when they have prey in their sights.

Anything is better than nothing, and nothing is what we're all guilty of.

We need football men at the top of the SFA, we need people who love the Scotland national team as much as us.

Or even worse, they do kinda have a clue, but due to being totally unaccountable in an old boys network, simply cannot be arsed to change.

J

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31 minutes ago, Bristolhibby said:

Or even worse, they do kinda have a clue, but due to being totally unaccountable in an old boys network, simply cannot be arsed to change.

J

And there's that.

9 minutes ago, runningtings said:

Ajax play with a back four.

Yes, the vast majority of teams with good center backs do. :)

Do you think I want use to play with three center backs because I think it's a good formation? I do, but it's not the only reason. I'd explain, but all you gots to do is read my historical posts, as I've already explained it. 

In short, we have bad central defenders, therefore, cramping and condensing the middle of defence is key to damage limitation.

Edited by Chripper

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There's plenty of youngsters playing in and around first teams in Scotland, the problem is the vast majority are being coached by fucking idiots.

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5 minutes ago, Mox said:

There's plenty of youngsters playing in and around first teams in Scotland, the problem is the vast majority are being coached by fucking idiots.

It's the coaching from a grassroots level that's the problem. Youngsters from other nations are more advanced than ours because they've mastered the basics before they were 10 years old. Our pros even struggle with the basics.

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Its great that Ajax are showing that spending ridiculous amounts of money on journeymen pros and substandard managers for the fallacy it is!

Bringing through their youngsters and playing possession based attacking football, what a great advert for the game.

Compared the clubs in eng, Fra, Ita etc paying fortunes for average players.  Our Scottish teams should look at this and realise the difference in skill level is very small and should start having a go.

Its the same in international football too, only Bel, Fra & Bra are actually any good, have a go and you would see these vastly overpaid journeymen (milner) crumble under the pressure.

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Just for example, who are exceptional, generation type players?  Messi, Ronaldo.....is there anyone else who could be considered a GOAT.

But look at the 90's...….there was Romario, Bebeto, Hagi, Stoichkov, Maradona, Del Piero, Baggio, Maldini, Baresi, Klinsmann, Mattheus, Bergkamp, Davids, Seedorf, Schmeical, Laudrup etc..

Just shows how poor football is creativity and skills wise now.  Scotland should be doing way better, I mean if that crap ROI team can qualify!!

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Let’s be honest here, we can’t blame the SFA for everything.

A huge proportion of the blame lies with the clubs. We hold our own at u16-u18 but it goes to shit by 21’s. It’s not the SFA that’s coaching these players it’s the clubs.

Rangers & Celtic should be embarrassed, probably more so Rangers given their previous financial woes by the lack of homegrown talent currently in their first team.

The path from promising youth to first team in Scotland is blocked by foreign journeymen and league 1/2 rejects.

Players at 17/18 need to be involved with the first team to aid their development but how often do we see that? 

We need to introduce a way to stop this happening. The old foreigner rule was frustrating but when you look at the demise of the national team and club football in Scotland since it’s been gone their is def an argument for something to be brought in.

 

 

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40 minutes ago, Baz said:

Let’s be honest here, we can’t blame the SFA for everything.

A huge proportion of the blame lies with the clubs. We hold our own at u16-u18 but it goes to shit by 21’s. It’s not the SFA that’s coaching these players it’s the clubs.

Rangers & Celtic should be embarrassed, probably more so Rangers given their previous financial woes by the lack of homegrown talent currently in their first team.

The path from promising youth to first team in Scotland is blocked by foreign journeymen and league 1/2 rejects.

Players at 17/18 need to be involved with the first team to aid their development but how often do we see that? 

We need to introduce a way to stop this happening. The old foreigner rule was frustrating but when you look at the demise of the national team and club football in Scotland since it’s been gone their is def an argument for something to be brought in.

 

 

The French Football Federation has 12 elite academies located in and around France. Players who are selected to attend Clairefontain stay and train at the facilities from Monday to Friday, they're then given the weekends off to visit family and to train with their parent clubs. They're required to meet educational requirements.

Players aged 13-15 attend a local college.

They work on movement of the players, making it faster and better; linking movement; using the weaker foot; working on general weaknesses; psychological factors; medical factors; technical skills; skill training; tactics, etc.

Clairefontaine has 56 hectares of land, containing 66,000 square metres of turfed grounds.

It was established in 1988, ten years later France win the world cup with a European championships win a couple years later.

Coincidence? I think not.

Meanwhile, 21 years after the French open Clairefontaine we establish a couple of meagre football schools. Great. We'll catch the world up in no time.

I'm not exonerating the Old Firm of any blame, of course I'm not, but at the end of the day the SFA are in charge and they could've implemented rules that required clubs to play the players that they brought through their youth system. They didn't, and they won't.

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It's probably important to realise that the SFA are the clubs, and as such will always act in the best interests of the clubs ahead of anything else. If an SFA president or board suggested any kind of rules that limited the clubs' ability to field whatever line up they wanted in any given game, then the clubs would see to it that the board was dispatched sharpish.

Full scale change is needed and it needs the engagement of supporters at club level every bit as much as internationally to persuade their clubs to get involved. "The blazers" have been getting flak for their self interest for years but it the issues extend beyond them to the blazers in club boardrooms too. Unfortunately, the more the game comes down to money, the less chance of the club chairmen etc acting in the best or long-term interests in the game in general.

A completely separate and independent national body, perhaps with government support or input, is what's needed, charged with creating an environment where our coaching is as good as it can be to ensure our kids are as good as they can be too, maybe with the introduction of a proper national academy. The issue is that the biggest clubs with the most money could try and circumvent that system by poaching the best youngsters and then leaving them to rot if they don't make it.

It's never going to be an easy fix but the danger of allowing the national team to go totally to shit is that any appetite for real change could be lost as club football properly takes over.

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23 hours ago, wee-toon-red said:

It's probably important to realise that the SFA are the clubs, and as such will always act in the best interests of the clubs ahead of anything else. If an SFA president or board suggested any kind of rules that limited the clubs' ability to field whatever line up they wanted in any given game, then the clubs would see to it that the board was dispatched sharpish.

Full scale change is needed and it needs the engagement of supporters at club level every bit as much as internationally to persuade their clubs to get involved. "The blazers" have been getting flak for their self interest for years but it the issues extend beyond them to the blazers in club boardrooms too. Unfortunately, the more the game comes down to money, the less chance of the club chairmen etc acting in the best or long-term interests in the game in general.

A completely separate and independent national body, perhaps with government support or input, is what's needed, charged with creating an environment where our coaching is as good as it can be to ensure our kids are as good as they can be too, maybe with the introduction of a proper national academy. The issue is that the biggest clubs with the most money could try and circumvent that system by poaching the best youngsters and then leaving them to rot if they don't make it.

It's never going to be an easy fix but the danger of allowing the national team to go totally to shit is that any appetite for real change could be lost as club football properly takes over.

Fantastic post.

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