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Scott McTominay


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36 minutes ago, mrniaboc said:

But but but but but didn't people think Van Dijk was good when he was at Celtic too? I'm confused, was he not good until he moved to the EPL? I thought he was good at Celtic, but now I realise you can't be both good AND play for Celtic :P. 

Nah, he was Marks and Spencers mince until he put his first foot down at Southampton airport.

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Another decent performance. A solid 6 from me, for the third match in a row.

Manchester United are an absolute shambles at the moment. Going from watching United and then Liverpool play it's like they're playing two different sports. Manchester United have no cohesion, it's like the players have no idea what's being asked of them, whereas, the Liverpool team are a collective unit and all the players are on the same page.

OGS is on borrowed time. 

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27 minutes ago, The_Dark_Knight said:

Another decent performance. A solid 6 from me, for the third match in a row.

Manchester United are an absolute shambles at the moment. Going from watching United and then Liverpool play it's like they're playing two different sports. Manchester United have no cohesion, it's like the players have no idea what's being asked of them, whereas, the Liverpool team are a collective unit and all the players are on the same page.

OGS is on borrowed time. 

Klopp has taken years to build this side and that's with a decent side that was left behind. OGS picked up a shambles and is slowly transitioning them to where they need to be

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1 hour ago, csinclair said:

Klopp has taken years to build this side and that's with a decent side that was left behind. OGS picked up a shambles and is slowly transitioning them to where they need to be

I agree. I know that Crystal Palace scored two into then but Maguire and Wan-Bissaka are terrific signings. Trouble is, United need at least two central midfielders, an attacking midfielder and at least one striker. 

Lingard has got a cloaking device when he plays. He completely disappears. No one seems to know where Rashford's best position is, same with Martial. And neither McTominay or Pogba are suited to playing in a defensive midfield position.

If OGS really is the man to sort things out he'll need at least another three seasons. I'm not sure he'll get that long.

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5 minutes ago, The_Dark_Knight said:

I agree. I know that Crystal Palace scored two into then but Maguire and Wan-Bissaka are terrific signings. Trouble is, United need at least two central midfielders, an attacking midfielder and at least one striker. 

Lingard has got a cloaking device when he plays. He completely disappears. No one seems to know where Rashford's best position is, same with Martial. And neither McTominay or Pogba are suited to playing in a defensive midfield position.

If OGS really is the man to sort things out he'll need at least another three seasons. I'm not sure he'll get that long.

Watched the game today with my Manyoo loving neighbour. It's obvious they have the wrong balance in their midfield. Pogba playing the holding role....whut??

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13 hours ago, Dave78 said:

Watched the game today with my Manyoo loving neighbour. It's obvious they have the wrong balance in their midfield. Pogba playing the holding role....whut??

I know! At Juve Pogba pretty much had a free role and he rarely put himself in a position where he could collect the ball from the defenders. He left that to Vidal and Pirlo.

This United midfield is probably the worst I've seen. They're crying out for a Roy Keane, hell, a Nicky Butt would suffice!

When they're United are alternating between playing Pereira and Lingard as the attacking midfielder, it's time to question whether or not OGS has a clue.

Lingard kinda reminds me of McGregor. Small, wiry... only gives the impression that he does stuff.

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On 8/25/2019 at 3:56 AM, The_Dark_Knight said:

I agree. I know that Crystal Palace scored two into then but Maguire and Wan-Bissaka are terrific signings. Trouble is, United need at least two central midfielders, an attacking midfielder and at least one striker. 

Lingard has got a cloaking device when he plays. He completely disappears. No one seems to know where Rashford's best position is, same with Martial. And neither McTominay or Pogba are suited to playing in a defensive midfield position.

If OGS really is the man to sort things out he'll need at least another three seasons. I'm not sure he'll get that long.

Maybe Pogba but I disagree about McTom. He has played centre back under Mourinho. And surely he is just the kind of adaptable player you revere.

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On 8/30/2019 at 1:32 PM, Third Lanark said:

Maybe Pogba but I disagree about McTom. He has played centre back under Mourinho. And surely he is just the kind of adaptable player you revere.

No. He's ineffective as an anchorman. He's a solid 6/10 in that position. At centerback he's a 5 at best.

He's versatile but he's best used as a box to box midfielder.

Today he got another 6. One assist, a few decent passes, a couple of good blocks but also a couple of loose passes. He was alright. Certainly contributed more than Pogba.

With each passing game I'm starting to think OGS doesn't have a clue what he's doing.

The 4-2-3-1 is a park-the-bus dinosaur system and should only be used to kill a game off. Using Pogba and McTominay as the two anchormen is ludicrous. No wonder United are in free-fall.

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2 hours ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Thought his best work was breaking up the play and playing forward passes. I can see why he’s played as an anchorman, he doesn’t have the guile I don’t think to play any other way, the problem he has is the supposedly creative players around him aren’t good enough. 

Pre-season he had more license to get forward and stretch his legs. He was impressive in pre-season and the United fans (me included) were excited to see him in action. Till now he's been shacked and he's been a solid 6 out of 10 all season.

Against Southampton, after United brought on Matic, moving McTominay more forward, the first time he strode forward with the ball it resulted in the Southampton player hauling him down and being sent off. There's no doubt that McTominay is best when he's playing box-to-box. Some players excel playing the ball backwards and sideways (95% of our other midfielders) but he isn't one of them.

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On 9/1/2019 at 12:09 AM, ParisInAKilt said:

he doesn’t have the guile

I'd disagree with that. 

For the majority of time over the first 4 EPL matches of the season he's played as an anchorman.

On the rare moments he's been allowed freedom he's created one goal, it would've been 3 if Rashford scored his penalty and (I think it was) Martial tucked away McTominay's elegant cross.

He's versatile, but not many Manchester United fans would call him an anchorman. He can play as an anchorman and even at the back, but he's best deployed as a box-to-box midfielder. He's actually really good up front, too. He played there many times for the U23s.

He'd be more effective up front than Rashford or Martial, who have been been hopeless this season. If it wasn't for Daniel Janes United would be in serious bother.

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58 minutes ago, The_Dark_Knight said:

I'd disagree with that. 

For the majority of time over the first 4 EPL matches of the season he's played as an anchorman.

On the rare moments he's been allowed freedom he's created one goal, it would've been 3 if Rashford scored his penalty and (I think it was) Martial tucked away McTominay's elegant cross.

He's versatile, but not many Manchester United fans would call him an anchorman. He can play as an anchorman and even at the back, but he's best deployed as a box-to-box midfielder. He's actually really good up front, too. He played there many times for the U23s.

He'd be more effective up front than Rashford or Martial, who have been been hopeless this season. If it wasn't for Daniel Janes United would be in serious bother.

Not convinced, his assist was a basic pass to James, although I agree about his other team mates 

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1 minute ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Not convinced, his assist was a basic pass to James, although I agree about his other team mates 

I'm not saying teams fear him when he strides forwad, but the two main times he's stormed forward this seaskn he won a penalty and then got chopped down, resulting in a red card.

Put him in midfield and give him licence to roam. (He's disciplined enough to help out when we lose the ball.) That's pretty what we should've done with Darren Fletcher.

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Running the risk of repeating something that may have been said previously... McTominay seemed to do very well breaking up the play as a sitter/defensive mid/anchor/whatever-other-wank-phrase-one-prefers in Paris last season. At his age, I doubt it's possible anyone knows what his best role might ultimately be. 

Perhaps we are over-complicating it. Perhaps he is a centre mid who can break up play, but who can also go box to box, drive forward and support his forwards. Perhaps the idea is to get two such players in beside each other, taking turns, both capable of breaking up the opposition, both capable of going forward. Y'know, the fairly standard understanding of a central midfielder. Sure, certain players will be better at some sides of the role than other sides, but that's to be expected. 

 

 

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48 minutes ago, AndyDD said:

Running the risk of repeating something that may have been said previously... McTominay seemed to do very well breaking up the play as a sitter/defensive mid/anchor/whatever-other-wank-phrase-one-prefers in Paris last season. At his age, I doubt it's possible anyone knows what his best role might ultimately be. 

Perhaps we are over-complicating it. Perhaps he is a centre mid who can break up play, but who can also go box to box, drive forward and support his forwards. Perhaps the idea is to get two such players in beside each other, taking turns, both capable of breaking up the opposition, both capable of going forward. Y'know, the fairly standard understanding of a central midfielder. Sure, certain players will be better at some sides of the role than other sides, but that's to be expected. 

 

 

Sounds like Roy Keane. 

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On 8/21/2019 at 2:41 PM, The_Dark_Knight said:

You can certainly judge a player by the league he's in, the players that he's playing with (Although, there are obvious exceptions, like Matthew Le Tissier) as well as the standard of opposition he's going up against in a regular basis. How long did it take Wan-Bissaka to move to a major club? One year with Crystal Palace. Harry Maguire has slowly moved up the ladder to where he belongs. Didn't take Tierney too long to get snapped up by Liverpool.

Contracts are not worth the paper they are written on. There was a comment a while back about "Teams not being able to afford Forrest and Christie". I took that as a joke. I hope it was a joke. But yes, if a team wants to buy a player, the chances are that the player will leave. McGregor is 26 and Forrest is 28. The fact that those two are playing in, what is universally classed as one of the worst top-flight leagues in Europe, at what is supposed to be the peak of their careers speaks volumes.

1) Well, I wasn't going to say it... 

2) He isn't. Or at least he isn't as good as people on here make him out to be. Could he make it in the EPL? Sure. If Arfield and McArthur can then he certainly could. Could he play for a top 6 club? (Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea, Man United, Man City, Liverpool) Not a chance in hell.

3) He certainly was.

The case with McGregor and Forrest is that they are players that would be bought by lower half epl teams as that is probably the standard they are at and Celtic too for that matter. They both don't seem that interested in leaving celtic and Celtic don't seem to be bothered about letting them go unless they get crazy money for them which they probably won't anyways. I think judging certain spl players by the fact they play in the spl is slightly unfair as McGregor and Forrest could easily play for mid table or lower half epl sides. Celtic have certainly shown they are several levels above the spl with the dominance they have had. There are some good Scottish players in the Celtic team who are a cut above the spl imo, but they have decided that moving to a lower epl side isn't worth it and would prefer Celtic over a team like Burnley or Bournemouth. 

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1 hour ago, AndyDD said:

Running the risk of repeating something that may have been said previously... McTominay seemed to do very well breaking up the play as a sitter/defensive mid/anchor/whatever-other-wank-phrase-one-prefers in Paris last season. At his age, I doubt it's possible anyone knows what his best role might ultimately be. 

Perhaps we are over-complicating it. Perhaps he is a centre mid who can break up play, but who can also go box to box, drive forward and support his forwards. Perhaps the idea is to get two such players in beside each other, taking turns, both capable of breaking up the opposition, both capable of going forward. Y'know, the fairly standard understanding of a central midfielder. Sure, certain players will be better at some sides of the role than other sides, but that's to be expected. 

 

 

Yeh I agree with what you have said there, hes played very well at times as a defensive midfielder so we should maybe deploy him in that role for just now alongside mcginn or McGregor. 

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1 hour ago, mccaughey85 said:

The case with McGregor and Forrest is that they are players that would be bought by lower half epl teams as that is probably the standard they are at and Celtic too for that matter. They both don't seem that interested in leaving celtic and Celtic don't seem to be bothered about letting them go unless they get crazy money for them which they probably won't anyways. I think judging certain spl players by the fact they play in the spl is slightly unfair as McGregor and Forrest could easily play for mid table or lower half epl sides. Celtic have certainly shown they are several levels above the spl with the dominance they have had. There are some good Scottish players in the Celtic team who are a cut above the spl imo, but they have decided that moving to a lower epl side isn't worth it and would prefer Celtic over a team like Burnley or Bournemouth. 

Probably about seven Scottish players in the Celtic team that are a cut above the SPL

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McTominay is a good all round central Midfielder and more than capable of playing an advanced role but he is also currently the best anchor man we have and we need him holding. The debate is really who plays beside him, either McLean or McGregor in the deeper creative position next to him and between McGinn, Christie and Armstrong for the more advanced creative position. 

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11 hours ago, mccaughey85 said:

The case with McGregor and Forrest is that they are players that would be bought by lower half epl teams as that is probably the standard they are at and Celtic too for that matter. They both don't seem that interested in leaving celtic and Celtic don't seem to be bothered about letting them go unless they get crazy money for them which they probably won't anyways. I think judging certain spl players by the fact they play in the spl is slightly unfair as McGregor and Forrest could easily play for mid table or lower half epl sides. Celtic have certainly shown they are several levels above the spl with the dominance they have had. There are some good Scottish players in the Celtic team who are a cut above the spl imo, but they have decided that moving to a lower epl side isn't worth it and would prefer Celtic over a team like Burnley or Bournemouth. 

Yeah. Can't agree with any of that.

Ultimately it is their lives and their careers, but it would've been nice to see them in the EPL as opposed to the safety blanket of the SPL. There's no doubt they would've improved going down south... There's no guarantee, though, just look at James MacArthur and James McCarthy, in my opinion they haven't improved since their Hamilton days.

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11 hours ago, mccaughey85 said:

Yeh I agree with what you have said there, hes played very well at times as a defensive midfielder so we should maybe deploy him in that role for just now alongside mcginn or McGregor. 

For United he's playing pretty well? This season he's been a solid 6. Not bad but not good.

Are you talking about the 4-2-3-1 formation? The sooner we ditch that Uber defensive formation the better. It might be okay playing it for the last five minutes of a match, trying to hold onto the lead, but to play an entire 90 with it is just painful to watch.

The way we deploy that formation is pretty much telling 6 players to defend and 4 to attack. Now, that's fine if you have a really great number 10 that can pull the strings.... But we don't.

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1 hour ago, The_Dark_Knight said:

For United he's playing pretty well? This season he's been a solid 6. Not bad but not good.

Are you talking about the 4-2-3-1 formation? The sooner we ditch that Uber defensive formation the better. It might be okay playing it for the last five minutes of a match, trying to hold onto the lead, but to play an entire 90 with it is just painful to watch.

The way we deploy that formation is pretty much telling 6 players to defend and 4 to attack. Now, that's fine if you have a really great number 10 that can pull the strings.... But we don't.

I'm afraid being solid defensively first and foremost is where we are at right now. As you have said yourself many times the ability of a lot of our players is limited. We need to be strong defensively and build from there. I don't know if you are expecting a Scottish version of the the tiki taka Man City side or Liverpools red arrows but we need to have a solid base first with the squad we have

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1 hour ago, The_Dark_Knight said:

 

Are you talking about the 4-2-3-1 formation

I suspect Mr Clarke does indeed favour a solid 2 in front of a back 4. At Killie that was Power and Dicker. They would often be the cover when the full backs pushed up. McTominay and McGregor are both experienced in doing this at a high level. They can also pick a forward pass and are mobile and intelligent enough to play aggressively and attack when it’s on. It frees up McGinn from playing deep where he has previous for being a liability. So there seems to be space for 4 playing ahead of the aforementioned McTominay and McGregor. Fuck knows what he does with the back 4. 

Edited by killiefaetheferry
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11 hours ago, bazmidd said:

I'm afraid being solid defensively first and foremost is where we are at right now. As you have said yourself many times the ability of a lot of our players is limited. We need to be strong defensively and build from there. I don't know if you are expecting a Scottish version of the the tiki taka Man City side or Liverpools red arrows but we need to have a solid base first with the squad we have

True.

Truth is, though, the 4-2-3-1 only really worked for two matches, and I'm sure one of those was when we drew against Germany. However, it didn't take long for teams to figure it out. 

You're right, though, because of the players we have we're handcuffed into playing a certain way. The 4-2-3-1 gives me shivers, though. Man United are preventing with it and they're just gifting points away because of it.

11 hours ago, killiefaetheferry said:

I suspect Mr Clarke does indeed favour a solid 2 in front of a back 4. At Killie that was Power and Dicker. They would often be the cover when the full-backs pushed up. McTominay and McGregor are both experienced in doing this at a high level. They can also pick a forward pass and are mobile and intelligent enough to play aggressively and attack when it’s on. It frees up McGinn from playing deep where he has previous for being a liability. So there seems to be space for 4 playing ahead of the aforementioned McTominay and McGregor. Fuck knows what he does with the back 4. 

Oh, I know. I'd bet my life that he'll stick with the 4-3-2-1.

I just that formation. It's so negative and it pretty much gives the opposition to free reign to do whatever they want in the middle of the park, as the 2 aren't really in midfield.

I'm dreading seeing the back four... If we concede early on it'll be a long evening.

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