Starting 11 for Kazakhstan match - Page 11 - TA specific - Tartan Army Message Board Jump to content

Starting 11 for Kazakhstan match


mrniaboc

Recommended Posts

1 minute ago, Chripper said:

I know.

The inclusion of Bannan pretty much sums up where we are in the midfield department... actually, it sums up where are in football terms.

I think we will struggle again Kazakhstan. Once that phrase it uttered you know that you're a footballing minnow. 

Not really.. Bannan's only there cos we called up NINE central midfielders.. with one out injured and Snoddy also absent.

Banan is about 11th in line for a call.. so if we're going to call up the 11th in line player.. then no surpirse Bannan is there.

Wtf are we doing calling up 9 center mids tho!? And flying them all to Kazakhstan!?

I'm utterly confused by this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, csinclair said:

I think we'll struggle if we're playing multiple players out of position

Professional players can play in multiple positions. Always have, always will.

You think in the 90s when we played with a 3 at the back some players weren't playing "out of position"?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Chripper said:

Professional players can play in multiple positions. Always have, always will.

You think in the 90s when we played with a 3 at the back some players weren't playing "out of position"?

Sure but when our best player has said he doesn't feel comfortable playing wing back, then why play him there?
Forrest played his best 2 games for scotland as part of a front 3. why then move him to a forward 2?
Why move Fraser into a midfield 3?

It's playing players out of position just for the sake of it instead of playing a system that suits the limited pool we have and gets the best out of them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, andyD said:

Not really.. Bannan's only there cos we called up NINE central midfielders.. with one out injured and Snoddy also absent.

Banan is about 11th in line for a call.. so if we're going to call up the 11th in line player.. then no surpirse Bannan is there.

Wtf are we doing calling up 9 center mids tho!? And flying them all to Kazakhstan!?

I'm utterly confused by this.

Honestly? I think it's because McLeish is expecting a raft of call-offs, and why not, that's been the case since McLeish took over. It'll be funny if no midfielders drop out and they all travel. 

But yes, nine central midfielders and two strikers.

With each squad I'm starting to lose the sliver of faith that I have. With each passing squad the quality is getting thinner and thinner. We're in trouble and it's been years and decades in the making.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Honestly do not think the team will vary to much from last team.... just a case of Bain in for McGregor, move Tierney to right back for the Kazakhstan match (Patterson back for San Marino), Burke for Fraser (again, just for the Kazakhstan match), McBurnie for Fletcher and McTorminay in for Christie.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, csinclair said:

Sure but when our best player has said he doesn't feel comfortable playing wing back, then why play him there?
Forrest played his best 2 games for scotland as part of a front 3. why then move him to a forward 2?
Why move Fraser into a midfield 3?

It's playing players out of position just for the sake of it instead of playing a system that suits the limited pool we have and gets the best out of them.

Well, I'm disappointed that he said that, for starters. I don't think Tosh McKinley or McNamara or even Craig Burley had a problem playing wingback. 

I'd actually give Fraser and Forrest free-roles and allow them to roam when we have the ball, when we don't they'd fall back into shape. 

Again, there's no suck thing as playing players out of position. What, you think the Wolves players have all played with a back three for the entirety of their careers? No. They're currently pulling up trees in the EPL.

It's strange, do people think that when a player is born he's assigned a position and he can only play there? I'll bet you that 50%-70% of professional football play in a different position from where they began their youth careers. Robertson was a winger, McTominay was a striker, Bale was a full back, Scholes was a striker... I could actually go on and on and on and on... 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Chripper said:

It's strange, do people think that when a player is born he's assigned a position and he can only play there? I'll bet you that 50%-70% of professional football play in a different position from where they began their youth careers. Robertson was a winger, McTominay was a striker, Bale was a full back, Scholes was a striker... I could actually go on and on and on and on...

No, but once you get to a high level, you learn to play a certain position. What's required of you in different situations. where you should be, where your teammates will be, which runs you should make, when you should press etc.

This is clearly something Robertson has worked a lot on under Klopp and right now he's the kind of fullback Klopp wants. Under a different manager he'd probably have to relearn certain things, as that manager will set up the team differently.

So what Robertson was saying was that he didn't know where he should be and what runs he should make as a wing back. he doesn't know automatically which passes he can make as he doesn't already know where his teammates will be. He's learned all that for being a Klopp fullback. He hasn't learnt it for being a top class wing back. He can do his best and that's what he has done. But you could see for yourself that his performance level dropped when he was at wing back, probably as much because he didn't have confidence in himself playing there as due to the need to adapt to new requirements and a new system.

I'm sure some players find it easier to switch positions.. and maybe some positions are easier to switch between. But that doesn't mean it's the same for everyone, and clearly our captain had reservations about playing in a back 5 rather than a back 4.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bain

O'Donnell (Not Tierney as can't play with his right foot and would be a big game to give Palmer a debut)
Bates
Mulgrew (Experienced and I'm unsure on McKenna)
Robertson

McTominay
McGregor (Fleck if McGregor isn't fit. Might contradict my point about Palmer but no doubt Fleck would be able to handle it)

Forrest
Armstrong
Russell

McBurnie (Burke a decent alternative)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, hampdenroarpod said:

Bain

O'Donnell (Not Tierney as can't play with his right foot and would be a big game to give Palmer a debut)
Bates
Mulgrew (Experienced and I'm unsure on McKenna)
Robertson

McTominay
McGregor (Fleck if McGregor isn't fit. Might contradict my point about Palmer but no doubt Fleck would be able to handle it)

Forrest
Armstrong
Russell

McBurnie (Burke a decent alternative)

You seen any football this season? If you had no danger Mulgrew would even be in your squad let alone your lineup. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

37 minutes ago, andyD said:

No, but once you get to a high level, you learn to play a certain position. What's required of you in different situations. where you should be, where your teammates will be, which runs you should make, when you should press etc.

This is clearly something Robertson has worked a lot on under Klopp and right now he's the kind of fullback Klopp wants. Under a different manager he'd probably have to relearn certain things, as that manager will set up the team differently.

So what Robertson was saying was that he didn't know where he should be and what runs he should make as a wing back. he doesn't know automatically which passes he can make as he doesn't already know where his teammates will be. He's learned all that for being a Klopp fullback. He hasn't learnt it for being a top class wing back. He can do his best and that's what he has done. But you could see for yourself that his performance level dropped when he was at wing back, probably as much because he didn't have confidence in himself playing there as due to the need to adapt to new requirements and a new system.

I'm sure some players find it easier to switch positions.. and maybe some positions are easier to switch between. But that doesn't mean it's the same for everyone, and clearly our captain had reservations about playing in a back 5 rather than a back 4.

That's the thing, though, football, especially at the highest level, is a fluid game and you need to be able to be comfortable pretty much everywhere on the park. Let's say you play for Man United, you're a midfielder and you find yourself filling in at the back because a team mate has limped off.. if you're not equipped to fill in for a duration of the match then you won't be at the club for very long. In Holland the kids literally are not given positions, the coaches play them in one position for a duration and then another and then another and so forth. They do similar in Spain and Belgium and France. But us? We're stuck on giving players positions and not allowing the player to express themselves.

Look at Oliver Burke. If I suggested that Burke play as a striker, before he joined Celtic, I would've been attacked with "You can't do that! HE'D BE OUT OF POSITION!!!!" X 100. But now that he's played a dozen matches as a striker (and not exactly done that well) he's now regarded as a striker? Is this just an international thing? Did Celtic fans say "Oh Brendan, you can't play Oliver Burke as a striker, he's a winger and he'd be out of position, you silly goose!"? I doubt it.

If Celtic switch to a back three and Tierney plays wingback for a dozen matches, will the TA be comfortable that he can be regarded as a wingback? Same with Aberdeen with McKenna as one of the three?

True, I suppose I get what he was saying, but you don't learn that via two or three matches. I mean, how long did it take him to reach the standard that Klopp was asking? Months? A year? 

We've given four at the back a chance (19 years and zero qualifications). It's obvious that when we come up against a half-decent team our defenders cannot cope, so it's time to put in an extra body and plug the gap. I'd advocate giving three at the back a chance for at least two qualification campaigns (WC and Euros). Won't happen, though.

What's odd is that people want to play 4-2-3-1 which only really worked for about five matches under Strachan.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, Chripper said:

Look at Oliver Burke. If I suggested that Burke play as a striker, before he joined Celtic, I would've been attacked with "You can't do that! HE'D BE OUT OF POSITION!!!!" X 100. But now that he's played a dozen matches as a striker (and not exactly done that well) he's now regarded as a striker? Is this just an international thing? Did Celtic fans say "Oh Brendan, you can't play Oliver Burke as a striker, he's a winger and he'd be out of position, you silly goose!"? I doubt it.

Then you'd be wrong..
Following his debut against 3rd tier Airdrie:

mickcfc91: clearly not a striker
celtic bhoy 94: Played out of position but got in the right position at times
bhoy_wonder: played out of position
dbhoy72: Try him on the wing never a standin striker in a zillion years.
_dannybhoy_: Get him on the wing. That’s when you will see the best of him. Never a striker imo.
just kieran: Clearly not a striker
sabzz1888: Get him in his natural position
lewis kerr: Rodgers is clueless sometimes.
sean daleer: He's not a centre forward. Not in Scotland anyway. I doubt Brendan sees him as a number 9 long term.
paulm1888: If he sees himself as a striker someone better tell him otherwise. He’ll never be a striker
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, andyD said:

Then you'd be wrong..
Following his debut against 3rd tier Airdrie:

mickcfc91: clearly not a striker
celtic bhoy 94: Played out of position but got in the right position at times
bhoy_wonder: played out of position
dbhoy72: Try him on the wing never a standin striker in a zillion years.
_dannybhoy_: Get him on the wing. That’s when you will see the best of him. Never a striker imo.
just kieran: Clearly not a striker
sabzz1888: Get him in his natural position
lewis kerr: Rodgers is clueless sometimes.
sean daleer: He's not a centre forward. Not in Scotland anyway. I doubt Brendan sees him as a number 9 long term.
paulm1888: If he sees himself as a striker someone better tell him otherwise. He’ll never be a striker
 

In fairness to me, I did say "I doubt it", as opposed to "No. They did not". 

Maybe it's a Scottish thing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, Chripper said:

In fairness to me, I did say "I doubt it", as opposed to "No. They did not". 

Maybe it's a Scottish thing.

no, it's a football thing.

burke's not trained a a striker, so he isn't a particularly good one right now.
he's quick, has decent feet and can striker a ball tho.. so he's better than most in the scottish prem just by virtue of that.
he'll get better the longer he plays there, because he'll learn how.
if you then dumped him back on the wing after a year of playing as a striker he'd probably be rubbish for a while, as he learned how to do it again.
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, ProudScot said:

You seen any football this season? If you had no danger Mulgrew would even be in your squad let alone your lineup. 

Not watched any Blackburn games but I've seen plenty of Scottish football and I'm not having McKenna as a Scotland centre half and I think Mulgrew is a better player. Hope McKenna goes on to prove me wrong. I like Mulgrew, he's experienced and a goal threat.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

57 minutes ago, andyD said:

no, it's a football thing.

burke's not trained a a striker, so he isn't a particularly good one right now.
he's quick, has decent feet and can striker a ball tho.. so he's better than most in the scottish prem just by virtue of that.
he'll get better the longer he plays there, because he'll learn how.
if you then dumped him back on the wing after a year of playing as a striker he'd probably be rubbish for a while, as he learned how to do it again.
 

I don't think it is. I doubt Austrian fans complained that David Alaba "doesn't play in his natural position" when he plays for them, same with German fans with Kimmich.

Why were we so good at being flexible in the 90s? Are you saying that in the 90s our players were more flexible? Under Craig Brown we qualified for two finals (would've been three if it wasn't for David Seaman's brilliance) and yet only Matt Elliot played in a three at club level. I find it difficult to believe that our current players aren't as flexible or intelligent than their predecessors.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, csinclair said:

Hard to compare our players to a lad who's streaks ahead of the rest of the Austrian team and one of germany's top younger players

To be honest, Robertson is streets ahead of the rest of his Scotland team-mates. And Tierney is one of Scotland's top younger players. ;)

9 minutes ago, csinclair said:

Also, I have nothing against 3 at the back as a system, I just don't think it suits our better players and we need to play to their strengths.

Having an extra body in the middle of defence would make us harder to break down. Everyone says that our central defenders are best in a two, but there's no evidence to back this up. None of them play at a high level. A rule of football is that if you aren't good in a position then putting an extra body In that position will make up for the inevitable mistakes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Chripper said:

Having an extra body in the middle of defence would make us harder to break down. Everyone says that our central defenders are best in a two, but there's no evidence to back this up. None of them play at a high level. A rule of football is that if you aren't good in a position then putting an extra body In that position will make up for the inevitable mistakes.

I have enough confidence in Bates & McKenna with McTominay in front of them that we wouldn't have to play players out of position to make us harder to break down.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...