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Just had a look at their fifth round draw. How they gonna sex this one up. What a lot of shyte. Despite managers making wholesale changes and deliberately wanting to lose ..the media cant help themselves ..best cup competition in the world ..my arse it is.

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1 hour ago, irnbruman said:

Just had a look at their fifth round draw. How they gonna sex this one up. What a lot of shyte. Despite managers making wholesale changes and deliberately wanting to lose ..the media cant help themselves ..best cup competition in the world ..my arse it is.

If the FA Cup is the best cup competition in the world then the Old Firm derby is the biggest game in the world 

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So this is obviously an English perspective, based on my own interest in the English game.

The media are desperately trying to big up the FA Cup, but (& trust me I have little time for them) I think it's largely based on some old memories most of them have about how it used to be & a hopeless desire to recapture the days of Ronnie Radford & mud-soaked pitches. When I was a kid, it was a big deal right from the off, but nowadays most clubs don't even bother opening the whole ground for most games. We had Man Utd at home last year & struggled to sell out. On more than one occasion the first time I've remembered the draw was even happening was when I get a text from a mate along the lines of "f**k me not Charlton away again".

I think you have to point the finger at the bigger clubs. Firstly because if they draw a 'minnow', you know the reserves are going to turn up. When I supported a bottom division team that was the one chance you generally got to see top players (they weren't really even on TV that much).

But equally, the fact remains that one of them will win it, which almost makes their attitude to the early rounds even worse. It shows you the extent to which players who could be playing lower the league(s) week in, week out are sat on fat contracts hoping for a game.

I don't know what the answer is, but as a competition it's crap 99% of the time. I only go away nowadays if it's either a well-known day on the lash, or a ground I've not been to, & some weird duty still drags me to the home games. But it really is generally crap. Unless we win it one year. Then it won't be any more.

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Unless there’s proof of genuine injury, teams/players should be fined by the fa. 

Its disrespecting the fans most of all, most of who would love a day out at Wembley for a final. 

I believe Watford made 11 changes the other day, they’re 7th in the league, so hardly battling relegation. 

Who the fuck are they to say that the trophy isn’t important enough to try and win for their loyal fans. 

It’s a joke of a competition nowadays, within a joke of an association, it’s probably the only comparison that the English game has to the Scottish game, clearly no one gives a flying fuck about the punters, as long as the commercial side is all good. 

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23 minutes ago, dandydunn said:

Unless there’s proof of genuine injury, teams/players should be fined by the fa. 

Its disrespecting the fans most of all, most of who would love a day out at Wembley for a final. 

I believe Watford made 11 changes the other day, they’re 7th in the league, so hardly battling relegation. 

Who the fuck are they to say that the trophy isn’t important enough to try and win for their loyal fans. 

It’s a joke of a competition nowadays, within a joke of an association, it’s probably the only comparison that the English game has to the Scottish game, clearly no one gives a flying fuck about the punters, as long as the commercial side is all good. 

You'd be surprised at how many Blackburn fans on my Facebook were posting stuff like "good now we can push for the playoffs" after they lost to Newcastle.

I think some of the younger (sky sports generation) have been brainwashed into thinking these cups are worthless. Same with the Europa league. Fans of teams that have won fuck all for years or haven't been in Europe (like Burnley as an example) relieved to be out so they can concentrate on fighting relegation. Mental.

At least the Scottish cup is still well thought of up here, and we've kept the traditional 3pm Saturday slot for the final.

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FA Cup used to be the dream for ex players if you ask them.  Different days that's all.  1991 still brings back bad memories.  I should have went to Hampden to watch Motherwell win the cup.  Instead went to Moffat to watch the FA Final.  When Gascoigne went mad.  Big regret not going to Hampden that day.

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It’s a shame, money’s absolutely ruined English football, when finishing 12th instead of 13th is prioritised over actually winning something.

Yes, give a fringe player a run out or stick a few promising kids on the bench, but making 8 and more changes to your team making it a reserve side can Fuck off! I hope any team that does that draws and has to do it again and goes on to get relegated.

There was a couple of games that clearly nobody wanted to win.

It shouldn’t all be about money, fans couldn’t give a shit about the accounts, they want to see their team lift a trophy.

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12 minutes ago, Fairbairn said:

Backfired for Watford.  They made 11 changes and still scudded Newcastle 2-0!! :lol:

Think that falls into the category of game nobody wanted to win!

:lol:

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With regard to Newcastle this is the one trophy they should be he’ll bent on trying to win yet every season their reserves are out. Nobody gives a flying fuck about the FA Cup. 

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The only thing Newcastle will win at the moment is the Championship or play offs when they get relegated again.

Not sure how the teams in the North East with the support they have combined with TV money can be such underachievers.

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2 hours ago, sbcmfc said:

The only thing Newcastle will win at the moment is the Championship or play offs when they get relegated again.

Not sure how the teams in the North East with the support they have combined with TV money can be such underachievers.

Their local rivals this season are the mighty Huddersfield Town. It can't be easy for them.

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No doubt chairmen are instructing managers to deliberately lose matches. All that matters is maximising the TV money coming in. 

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I'm going to stand up for the FA cup here, it is a great cup competition and I don't think any other domestic cup competition comes close to it.

I pretty much agree with what's been said above but that's largely about the attitude to EPL clubs from the third round proper to the semi-finals, once clubs get to the semi-final, they al want to win it.   The reasons are pretty obvious, there is so much money in being in the EPL and CL that you can understand why some clubs priories the league over the cup.  That said, I don't know why teams that have no real chance of being relegated or finishing in the top four don't give it a real go.  The FA have to take a lot of responsibility though for the way they've pissed about with it, starting with having the semi finals at Wembley up to having the draw after a Monday night game.  On the other hand though the money that comes into the competiton via TV is very good and it's actually allotted pretty fairly through the entrants.

What a lot of people don't realise - and I don't think you get this unless you support a lower league or non league team - is that the FA cup is in essence about three or four different competitions rolled into one.  Obviously only one team can lift the cup in May at Wembley but lots of clubs can have very successful seasons in the FA cup and can win every bit as much as the ultimate winners.

736 teams entered the FA cup this season with the first games played in early August.   Teams that come it at this level literally have grounds that are a rope around the pitch.  Success for teams at this level would be a decent run perhaps to the second qualifying round where they might get a tie against one of the bigger NLN or NLS teams, perhaps an ex-league team like York or Torquay.   

For teams a bit further up the pyramid, they might be looking at a run to the fourth qualifying round and a tie against a conference side or even better to the 1st round proper and get a league club.  For teams in the National League and Leagues 1 & 2, then it's the third round proper and beyond and a draw against an EPL club as Sutton did a couple of years ago.

This to me is where the real magic of the FA cup is and is why it's the best domestic cup competition in the world. 

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I will also stick up for the competition. Some of my fondest memories of watching football are FACup games. Watching a lower league or non-league club most games are pretty mundane. So the cup competitions are special. From the club's point of view it can be financially very rewarding and for supporters it's the chance to go to a place you have never been (and sometimes never even heard of). Following a club that is in non-league the dream is the first round and the hope of one of the bigger lower league club's away socyou get a day out and the club gets a windfall. If you get a TV game all the better (I think it was £68k for the first round ).the club's who make wholesale changes should be banned from the following seasons competition. I know most of the EPL club's won't care but at least you'll have a competition with club's that want to take part.

Ian

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It's the only competition  in England I kind of like. The early rounds are full of excitement for smaller teams. It is a shame some teams treat it with a lack of respect, especially those who don't have to fear relegation 

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2 hours ago, aaid said:

I'm going to stand up for the FA cup here, it is a great cup competition and I don't think any other domestic cup competition comes close to it.

I pretty much agree with what's been said above but that's largely about the attitude to EPL clubs from the third round proper to the semi-finals, once clubs get to the semi-final, they al want to win it.   The reasons are pretty obvious, there is so much money in being in the EPL and CL that you can understand why some clubs priories the league over the cup.  That said, I don't know why teams that have no real chance of being relegated or finishing in the top four don't give it a real go.  The FA have to take a lot of responsibility though for the way they've pissed about with it, starting with having the semi finals at Wembley up to having the draw after a Monday night game.  On the other hand though the money that comes into the competiton via TV is very good and it's actually allotted pretty fairly through the entrants.

What a lot of people don't realise - and I don't think you get this unless you support a lower league or non league team - is that the FA cup is in essence about three or four different competitions rolled into one.  Obviously only one team can lift the cup in May at Wembley but lots of clubs can have very successful seasons in the FA cup and can win every bit as much as the ultimate winners.

736 teams entered the FA cup this season with the first games played in early August.   Teams that come it at this level literally have grounds that are a rope around the pitch.  Success for teams at this level would be a decent run perhaps to the second qualifying round where they might get a tie against one of the bigger NLN or NLS teams, perhaps an ex-league team like York or Torquay.   

For teams a bit further up the pyramid, they might be looking at a run to the fourth qualifying round and a tie against a conference side or even better to the 1st round proper and get a league club.  For teams in the National League and Leagues 1 & 2, then it's the third round proper and beyond and a draw against an EPL club as Sutton did a couple of years ago.

This to me is where the real magic of the FA cup is and is why it's the best domestic cup competition in the world. 

 

24 minutes ago, hoofitharder said:

I will also stick up for the competition. Some of my fondest memories of watching football are FACup games. Watching a lower league or non-league club most games are pretty mundane. So the cup competitions are special. From the club's point of view it can be financially very rewarding and for supporters it's the chance to go to a place you have never been (and sometimes never even heard of). Following a club that is in non-league the dream is the first round and the hope of one of the bigger lower league club's away socyou get a day out and the club gets a windfall. If you get a TV game all the better (I think it was £68k for the first round ).the club's who make wholesale changes should be banned from the following seasons competition. I know most of the EPL club's won't care but at least you'll have a competition with club's that want to take part.

Ian

 

Both very well made points.

Seeing a dilapidated wee ground packed to the rafters and a kid with a tin foil FA cup is still the magic of the cup for me.

Barnet v Brentford last night looked a classic I only caught the end, and the Giant killings of Newport have been good (although slightly tainted by the teams out against them).

My suggestion to improve it would be that sides need to nominate a 22 man squad say before the 3rd round fixture and that’s them. So teams that disrespect the early rounds can’t bring back the big guns for the semis and final.... (could backfire if your west broms of the world still don’t bother, but then fuck them!)

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20 hours ago, irnbruman said:

No doubt chairmen are instructing managers to deliberately lose matches. All that matters is maximising the TV money coming in. 

Utter utter shite. You think a chairman goes off to a manager/players and says “Lose this game”? FFS.

 

I will defend it a bit. Yes too many teams use it for squad rotation but a few of those that do so have got their comeuppance in doing so. If you end up with say a Bristol City or a Portsmouth getting kind draws, possible considering how many PL teams are out, and they make it through next 2 rounds then they are one game from final. Games that the fans would remember for many years to come but no one will ever say to them “Aye but remember Watford made 11 changes in a game in 4th round....” in 10 years time.

Teams that’s use it for squad rotation are cheating their fans...but for every team who falls into that category there is another team and fans who will benefit.

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5 hours ago, Dalgety Bay TA said:

Utter utter shite. You think a chairman goes off to a manager/players and says “Lose this game”? FFS.

 

I will defend it a bit. Yes too many teams use it for squad rotation but a few of those that do so have got their comeuppance in doing so. If you end up with say a Bristol City or a Portsmouth getting kind draws, possible considering how many PL teams are out, and they make it through next 2 rounds then they are one game from final. Games that the fans would remember for many years to come but no one will ever say to them “Aye but remember Watford made 11 changes in a game in 4th round....” in 10 years time.

Teams that’s use it for squad rotation are cheating their fans...but for every team who falls into that category there is another team and fans who will benefit.

You must be a bit wet behind the ears.  It might not come as a straightforward lose the game but many chairmen are solely concentrating on revenue (ie league position) and will make sure a manager knows where the priorities lie. Of course there are other teams that take it seriously and will benefit. The result of all this is that the best games take place before the third round.

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2 hours ago, irnbruman said:

You must be a bit wet behind the ears.  It might not come as a straightforward lose the game but many chairmen are solely concentrating on revenue (ie league position) and will make sure a manager knows where the priorities lie. Of course there are other teams that take it seriously and will benefit. The result of all this is that the best games take place before the third round.

No, I’m not wet behind the ears. Of course your second attempt is much more likely to happen, chairmen want to ensure managers are aware the league is first priority. But that’s a mile away from your ludicrous suggestion that teams are told to deliberately lose.

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4 hours ago, Dalgety Bay TA said:

No, I’m not wet behind the ears. Of course your second attempt is much more likely to happen, chairmen want to ensure managers are aware the league is first priority. But that’s a mile away from your ludicrous suggestion that teams are told to deliberately lose.

I never said teams were told to lose. Quite possible that a chairman tells a manager to do his best to lose the game. Ive supported Blackpool before when Holloway was manager and when Blackpool were reaching play offs and in the Premier League ..they never tried a leg in any cup matches whether that was playing reserves or not.

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On 1/29/2019 at 4:00 PM, irnbruman said:

No doubt chairmen are instructing managers to deliberately lose matches. 

 

5 hours ago, irnbruman said:

I never said teams were told to lose. 

😂😂

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9 hours ago, Dalgety Bay TA said:

 

😂😂

Whats your problem Dalgety apart from just being a fucking dick. I'll explain it once again since you seem to be a bit thick. No manager is going to tell a team or the players  to lose a  game ..but plenty of chairmen would have made it clear to a manager and consequently the manager would give the impression to the players that he wasn't that concerned. Now give it a rest with  your stupid smart arse comments

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The coupe de France is some competition starts with 8500 teams including overseas territories (Guadalupe, French Guiana, New Caledonia etc) clubs are draw away from home if playing teams more than two leagues below them with no replays. PSG played an amateur team in last years final 

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On 1/29/2019 at 9:03 PM, vanderark14 said:

It's the only competition  in England I kind of like. The early rounds are full of excitement for smaller teams. It is a shame some teams treat it with a lack of respect, especially those who don't have to fear relegation 

It makes you wonder why those teams treat it with so little respect, given that they could potentially win the cup if they took it seriously.

On 1/29/2019 at 7:44 AM, Huddersfield said:

So this is obviously an English perspective, based on my own interest in the English game.

The media are desperately trying to big up the FA Cup, but (& trust me I have little time for them) I think it's largely based on some old memories most of them have about how it used to be & a hopeless desire to recapture the days of Ronnie Radford & mud-soaked pitches. When I was a kid, it was a big deal right from the off, but nowadays most clubs don't even bother opening the whole ground for most games. We had Man Utd at home last year & struggled to sell out. On more than one occasion the first time I've remembered the draw was even happening was when I get a text from a mate along the lines of "f**k me not Charlton away again".

I think you have to point the finger at the bigger clubs. Firstly because if they draw a 'minnow', you know the reserves are going to turn up. When I supported a bottom division team that was the one chance you generally got to see top players (they weren't really even on TV that much).

But equally, the fact remains that one of them will win it, which almost makes their attitude to the early rounds even worse. It shows you the extent to which players who could be playing lower the league(s) week in, week out are sat on fat contracts hoping for a game.

I don't know what the answer is, but as a competition it's crap 99% of the time. I only go away nowadays if it's either a well-known day on the lash, or a ground I've not been to, & some weird duty still drags me to the home games. But it really is generally crap. Unless we win it one year. Then it won't be any more.

This. Reading drew Man Utd away in this year and I wasn't interested, yet I decided to go to Stevenage and Sheffield Wednesday (on a Friday night) in the cup last season. I decided to go to those games, but not Man Utd, because I felt that there would actually be two full strength sides turning up for them.  Also it didn't help that the club were forced to subside tickets for that game to reduce them to £30, I think from £45, for a game on a Saturday lunchtime on TV (and that's without considering travel, food, drink, etc); just shows how money orientated the big English clubs are. Even if it had been £20, I probably wouldn't have gone.

The fact that the big clubs play reserve sides in the cup kills it for me; Rangers played a strong (a few changes) at Cowdenbeath last night, you'd almost never get a similar situation in England now. Chelsea have about 40 players out on loan (and I'm not exaggerating), when most of those players would be first team players elsewhere, and many are sat in the reserves waiting for a game. The only way to really prevent this would be to have a cap on the number of professional players a club can have to maybe 30, but that'll never happen, stopping clubs from stockpiling and reducing the chance that they'd be able to play weakened sides in cup competitions.

Even with us making the semi-finals a couple of years back, and a number of quarter-final appearances - I've found myself less and less interested in the FA Cup, not because of the competition itself, but because of the attitude of the bigger clubs to the competition.

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