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Chripper

Karamoko Dembele

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4 hours ago, ceudmilefailte said:

Got to say that I disagree  with that. I think the blood line and upbringing is very important. If a Scottish couple or a Scottish man married to an English woman move to England and have a son they can say their child is 100% Scottish. If that "Scottish child" has a child and is part of that family and it's culture then as far as I can see that child has every right to see them selves or be seen as Scottish.

Doubt the Mcs never saw themselves as any thing other than Irish despite their place of birth.

It's been put down that age should have nothing to do with the final decision, as far as I am concerned there should at least be a minimum age put in place for a child to decide their nationality. Only being asked to play for a country at full level and refusing to means you can not be a certain nationality.

Place of birth to me is the least important factor, but the most convenient to use, which is why is was just about ?always the rule used in the past

Well when you put it like that.... Lol I think I may have just changed my opinion on it, never really thought about it as deeply as that before. Suppose there could potentially be a time when that situation arises. I would say probably more often than not though that is not the case, and it is the case that players are either a) just not good enough to play for their first choice country so play to the rules to pick another country or b) make an un educated decision after being brought up in the narrow minded world of the Glasgow old firm goldfish bowl and pick Ireland coz I'm a Celtic fan n my grandads Irish, which I genuinely believe to be the case with McGeady certainly

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12 hours ago, Malcolm said:

 

I suggested that last year and got dogs abuse for it.

Aye But......... We didnae play San Marino last year!!!! 😀👍😀😉👍

Edited by stocky

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End of the day I think we're putting far too much stock into whether or not a 15 year old kid will choose to play for us internationally. If we are so keen to rely on one player in such a lengthy discussion then we are having problems!

Of course he will be in the spotlight as he matures into senior football but let's see how things develop.

Can't help but consider the Islam Feruz example - now 23 years old with 23 senior loan appearances and 0 goals across 3 years and now relatively unheard of. Can only be left disappointed when we sensationalise young talent.

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1 hour ago, N4Footsoldier said:

End of the day I think we're putting far too much stock into whether or not a 15 year old kid will choose to play for us internationally. If we are so keen to rely on one player in such a lengthy discussion then we are having problems!

Of course he will be in the spotlight as he matures into senior football but let's see how things develop.

Can't help but consider the Islam Feruz example - now 23 years old with 23 senior loan appearances and 0 goals across 3 years and now relatively unheard of. Can only be left disappointed when we sensationalise young talent.

Agree with this.

Our team should currently be World class with Fleck, Gauld, Feruz and Harper destroying everyone in their path.  

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2 hours ago, PASTA Mick said:

Agree with this.

Our team should currently be World class with Fleck, Gauld, Feruz and Harper destroying everyone in their path.  

Not to stir the pot but Fleck has come onto a game recently :p

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14 hours ago, Malcolm said:

Aye....    Simon Donnelly, eoin Jess.....    both called the new Kenny Dalglish....  eh, naw.

Simon Donnelly wasn't even the new Eoin Jess.

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Seems like a simple issue to fix for me. First professional contact you sign, have a field for nationality. You need to pick at 16ish. Job done. You don't get to wait to see how good you are before choosing.

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23 hours ago, Mee said:

Seems like a simple issue to fix for me. First professional contact you sign, have a field for nationality. You need to pick at 16ish. Job done. You don't get to wait to see how good you are before choosing.

What if you identify with more than one nationality? 

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On 1/18/2019 at 10:48 PM, Mee said:

Seems like a simple issue to fix for me. First professional contact you sign, have a field for nationality. You need to pick at 16ish. Job done. You don't get to wait to see how good you are before choosing.

Dumbest comment award 2019 so far

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On 1/20/2019 at 1:24 AM, ceudmilefailte said:

Dumbest comment award 2019 so far

 

On 1/19/2019 at 10:33 PM, mrniaboc said:

What if you identify with more than one nationality? 

How is making someone make a decision when they sign a professional contract any different than locking someone in when they play a senior game or should football go the way of some other sports where players can represent multiple countries as a senior player?

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7 hours ago, Mee said:

 

How is making someone make a decision when they sign a professional contract any different than locking someone in when they play a senior game or should football go the way of some other sports where players can represent multiple countries as a senior player?

Can't help feeling that the last person making the decision is the kid himself, signing a contract wont mean you have suddenly matured to the point of making other decisions, just that you are doing what you are told. 

Got to say looking at it now your suggestion is probably as good as all the other methods in place, just think childhood ends later than you.

Thanks for the grown up reply to my childish one. Pretty sure you know what nationality you are! 

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1 hour ago, ceudmilefailte said:

Can't help feeling that the last person making the decision is the kid himself, signing a contract wont mean you have suddenly matured to the point of making other decisions, just that you are doing what you are told. 

Got to say looking at it now your suggestion is probably as good as all the other methods in place, just think childhood ends later than you.

Thanks for the grown up reply to my childish one. Pretty sure you know what nationality you are!

People have ties to more counties now than in the past so this is going to become more of an issue. 

With dembele I think he is eligible to play for 3 countries. 

If he chooses to play for England fair enough and good luck to him. If he is good enough it would be a better chance to win trophies and increase his earnings.

If he picks Scotland fantastic and we can all get behind him and get this thread up to 1000 pages.

What I wouldn't want to see happening is him waiting till he is say 20 he finds he isn't going to be a superstar and then "settling" for Scotland.

The current rules are going to lead to the top countries hoovering up all the best international players in the same way big clubs are doing now if players are waiting to see how good an international team they can play for.

16 year olds can get married, join the army etc so I don't think it's a stretch to pick what international football team to tie yourself to.

Yes people can feel they have multiple nationalities but for football I think we need to make a decision for internationals to have a decent future.

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39 minutes ago, Mee said:

What I wouldn't want to see happening is him waiting till he is say 20 he finds he isn't going to be a superstar and then "settling" for Scotland.

It's a sad state of affairs, but if that's the way it plays then I'll settle for it. Worse players with no ties to Scotland will have been called up, so I'll not grudge a young talented chap his chance.

I agree generally about their being too much dicking about when it comes to multi-national youngsters and deciding where they want to play.

Edited by Tartan_McCole

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On 1/22/2019 at 10:55 PM, Mee said:

 

How is making someone make a decision when they sign a professional contract any different than locking someone in when they play a senior game or should football go the way of some other sports where players can represent multiple countries as a senior player?

Because most footballers sign their first professional contract long before they are called up for an international team. Say there's a half Brazilian half Venezuelan kid who signs his first contract at 16. He's full of confidence and would love to play at a World Cup with Brazil. But he falls off as he ages and never makes it to the level of the Brazil team. Why shouldn't he be allowed to represent Venezuela then if he's eligible? Seems harsh to put that pressure on a kid and ask for unreasonable foresight. 

Our mentality is "You must feel Scottish and want to play for Scotland 100%!". But we're the fuckin' Tartan Army, of course we're gonna feel like that. Doesn't mean there can't be someone who feels an allegiance to more than one nation. Why make them pick until they actually have to? Did you pick your current job at the age of 16?

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6 hours ago, mrniaboc said:

Because most footballers sign their first professional contract long before they are called up for an international team. Say there's a half Brazilian half Venezuelan kid who signs his first contract at 16. He's full of confidence and would love to play at a World Cup with Brazil. But he falls off as he ages and never makes it to the level of the Brazil team. Why shouldn't he be allowed to represent Venezuela then if he's eligible? Seems harsh to put that pressure on a kid and ask for unreasonable foresight. 

Our mentality is "You must feel Scottish and want to play for Scotland 100%!". But we're the fuckin' Tartan Army, of course we're gonna feel like that. Doesn't mean there can't be someone who feels an allegiance to more than one nation. Why make them pick until they actually have to? Did you pick your current job at the age of 16?

HEY!! What the hell do you think you're doing bringing logic into POF! You'd better stop it otherwise you'll be chased by the POF villagers, wielding their torches and pitchforks. They're sooooooo formidable!   :P

I agree with you. I think it'll get to a point where Scotland fans will want parents to declare the nationality of their child on their birth certificate. :crazy:

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9 hours ago, mrniaboc said:

Say there's a half Brazilian half Venezuelan kid who signs his first contract at 16. He's full of confidence and would love to play at a World Cup with Brazil. But he falls off as he ages and never makes it to the level of the Brazil team. Why shouldn't he be allowed to represent Venezuela then if he's eligible? Seems harsh to put that pressure on a kid and ask for unreasonable foresight. 

I understand where you are coming from but we will just have to disagree on it.

My thoughts are if he wants to play for Brazil but ends up not being good enough then tough. 99.9% of the world won't get to play for Brazil either and Venezuela shouldn't be treated as a B Team.

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Personally, I think the SFA should be doing all they can to convince him to play for Scotland.  He has obvious talents and could end up being a superstar.

Even if he doesn't reach the levels people talk about, it seem obvious that he would add something to the age group he is currently with.

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11 minutes ago, PASTA Mick said:

Personally, I think the SFA should be doing all they can to convince him to play for Scotland.  He has obvious talents and could end up being a superstar.

Even if he doesn't reach the levels people talk about, it seem obvious that he would add something to the age group he is currently with.

I definitely know where you're coming from, we could do with all the good players we can get, but in an ideal world we shouldn't have to court players to play for Scotland, they should want to out of their own volition. However, it's not a perfect world, so I agree that we should do all that we can.

It looks like the FA are trying their best, too. Hasn't he captained England at youth level?

If the FA and SFA go head-to-head over the boy, I have a feeling he'll choose England.

Yes, Scott McTominay chose us over England, but in some part that was due to McTominay wanting to make his Father proud. It's not the same in Dembele's case.. I wish it were because I agree with you, he could be a superstar and by all accounts he's a sensible lad.

I suppose all we can do is wait and see.

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If it gets to the point when someone is making their international debut and instead of feeling on top of the world they are wishing they tried a bit harder then somethings gone wrong.

 

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16 minutes ago, Mee said:

If it gets to the point when someone is making their international debut and instead of feeling on top of the world they are wishing they tried a bit harder then somethings gone wrong.

Does anyone have an example of when that's happened?

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On 1/24/2019 at 4:57 PM, andyD said:

Does anyone have an example of when that's happened?

Phil Bardsley?

Nigel Quashie?

Matt Elliot?

and many many more I’d guess. 

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1 hour ago, Return of Yermaw said:

Robbie Stockdale, Paul Devlin, Jonathan Gould, Neil Sullivan, Phil Bardsley.......

Think Sullivan enjoyed it and always turned up for us 

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1 hour ago, Return of Yermaw said:

Robbie Stockdale, Paul Devlin, Jonathan Gould, Neil Sullivan, Phil Bardsley.......

As stated Sullivan seemed to turn up a lot, even when he knew that he'd be the bench. I also think Devlin was proud to play for us, lots of his family are Scottish and he said this after making his debut: "

"Playing at Hampden has always been a dream of mine and to finally achieve that made the match the proudest night of my career. I had 30-odd people in the stand watching me and it cost me an absolute fortune to make sure they could all be here. There were 23 of the clan from up here and a further seven flew up from down south."

I'd replace them with Dominic Matteo and Matt Elliott.

 

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