There is no dark side of the moon

[phart]

51 minutes ago, glasgow jock said:

Cheers Phart - Understood that explanation (mostly), when you say "Eventually every galaxy not gravitionally bound with each other will disappear over the horizon never to be seen again." where do these galaxies / clusters disapear to ??, do you think they just expand forever / infinity, or move over to another Universe ???

They just move out of our ability to communicate with them , i.e. light from them never reaches us, so for all intents and purposes they don't exist anymore.

They just go off into the unobservable universe. We have no idea if the universe just goes on for ever outside what we can see. I imagine they just carry on with whatever they were doing we just can't see them anymore.

I don't think anything special happens it's just from our frame of reference they disappear. If randoms in a closer galaxy to them were looking with the same telescope they'd still be able to observe the light and see it. Although eventually space would expand and then they'd disappear for them too.

It's really only our local group of galaxies in the long-term we'll eventually be able to see, Andromeda one of those galaxies is on a collision course with us though so...

It's really still a very speculative branch of cosmology all this. Einstein thought the universe was stable cause that is what observations at the time indicated, then hubble showed they were moving away, then it wasn't till 1998 we saw the universe was expanding at increasing amounts. Hubble telescope then brought in loads of information and JWST is even better and measures in infrared spectrum more. This is important because as galaxies move away their light gets red-shifted , like the doppler effect where sirens on an ambulance get higher or lower pitched depending on whether it is moving closer to you or away from you. So all the light gets shifted towards the red end of the spectrum. So having a telescope calibrated to infra-red helps.

 

[Toepoke]

2 hours ago, phart said:

 I've had a wee look at tensor mathematics and it looks like a total ball ache.

I wonder if Einstein ever used this terminology? Would be delighted if so 😆

 

[phart]

1 hour ago, Toepoke said:

I wonder if Einstein ever used this terminology? Would be delighted if so 😆

 

Maybe, although he is probably just a wee bit better at maths than me

[chaff]

Don't fully understand but mind-blowing 

[thplinth]

On 7/16/2022 at 9:24 PM, Freeedom said:

I'm talking about conscious life that has the capacity to appreciate the universe. I'm pretty sure atoms that have that capacity are in the minority

Consciousness is not understood by science, perhaps least of all by science. Personally I would wager that life is an emergent property of consciousness rather than consciousness being an emergent property of life. If that is true then consciousness will exist in everything. And nothing. It is not just in all things it is the space between the things.

Regarding the feeling of cosmic insignificance, well what if we really were the creation of some higher Anunnaki type intelligence that visited earth in the not so distant past, who essentially gene spliced a chimp and maybe a pig and some other animals, to create a slave species, which they used and then discarded after a few hundred / thousand years and fucked off.  That would sure burst our cosmic significance bubble. From thinking everything literally revolved around us... to finding out we were just some lesser creation, the property of higher beings, who saw us like a farmer sees his pigs.

Edited July 27, 2022 by thplinth

[glasgow jock]

9 hours ago, thplinth said:

Consciousness is not understood by science, perhaps least of all by science. Personally I would wager that life is an emergent property of consciousness rather than consciousness being an emergent property of life. If that is true then consciousness will exist in everything. And nothing. It is not just in all things it is the space between the things.

Regarding the feeling of cosmic insignificance, well what if we really were the creation of some higher Anunnaki type intelligence that visited earth in the not so distant past, who essentially gene spliced a chimp and maybe a pig and some other animals, to create a slave species, which they used and then discarded after a few hundred / thousand years and fucked off.  That would sure burst our cosmic significance bubble. From thinking everything literally revolved around us... to finding out we were just some lesser creation, the property of higher beings, who saw us like a farmer sees his pigs.

You have been watching too much of Ancient Aliens 🤣 - seriously though there are  more and more "experts" coming to the fore and expressing alternative's to the "Darwinian" explanation of our species (humans) origins.

The Darwinian hypotheses seems most likely to me, but I'm open minded and think we will find out the truth within the next twenty / thirty years or so.

One thing I am absolutely convinced of though, is the Bibles version of human kinds origins is a load of absolute superstitious bollox (unless you believe in talking snakes, folk walking about after their death performing miracles etc) !!!

[phart]

30 minutes ago, glasgow jock said:

You have been watching too much of Ancient Aliens 🤣 - seriously though there are  more and more "experts" coming to the fore and expressing alternative's to the "Darwinian" explanation of our species (humans) origins.

The Darwinian hypotheses seems most likely to me, but I'm open minded and think we will find out the truth within the next twenty / thirty years or so.

One thing I am absolutely convinced of though, is the Bibles version of human kinds origins is a load of absolute superstitious bollox (unless you believe in talking snakes, folk walking about after their death performing miracles etc) !!!

Darwin wasn't completely right in the way Newtonian mechanics wasn't completely right.

He didn't know about RNA-DNA, Archea (only discovered through sequencing) , mechanisms like gene-transfer etc. Biology is taking off like astronomy did when it got better telescopes , biology having CRISPR and better sequencing.

Sean Carroll Mindscape podcast has had a lot of really good guests on it talking about these sorts of things.

Episode 8 Carl Zimmer

Episode 198 Nick Lane

Episode 88 Neil Shubin

Episode 117 Sean B Carroll

Episode 179 David Reich

Episode 175 William Ratcliffe

Episode 92 Kevin Hand

 

Not heard anything about alternatives to Darwinian evolution as opposed to filling in the theory as more evidence comes in.

[phart]

A great explainer of what the internet has done with regards to giving people information without the wherewithawl to properly analyse it, using the fans of WWE no less, impressive. Why everyone can switch from being a virologist to a war strategist to a cosmologist just from reading Facebook.

We've all fallen victim to it at some point.

Edited August 5, 2022 by phart

[exile]

Or a slice of chorizo

[phart]

2 hours ago, exile said:

Or a slice of chorizo

I saw that it's in a line of jokes about argument from authority. There was a good one on moons and folk put in the bottom of a frying pan into a collection of solar system moons.

Which one are moons which ones are bottom of frying pans

[Orraloon]

4 hours ago, phart said:

I saw that it's in a line of jokes about argument from authority. There was a good one on moons and folk put in the bottom of a frying pan into a collection of solar system moons.

Which one are moons which ones are bottom of frying pans

All frying pans? 

[phart]

24 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

All frying pans? 

Almost, one is Europa i believe

Edited August 6, 2022 by phart

[exile]

9 hours ago, phart said:

I saw that it's in a line of jokes about argument from authority. There was a good one on moons and folk put in the bottom of a frying pan into a collection of solar system moons.

Which one are moons which ones are bottom of frying pans

That's funny and clever. And if it helps make a point about authority so much the better.

Like this thread has, sometimes, tried to do. 

[Toepoke]

After 50 years human lunar exploration starts up again tomorrow lunchtime...

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/aug/28/artemis-1-nasa-space-rocket-moon-mission

 

[phart]

6 minutes ago, Toepoke said:

After 50 years human lunar exploration starts up again tomorrow lunchtime...

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/aug/28/artemis-1-nasa-space-rocket-moon-mission

 

Been keeping an eye on it, be very interesting to actually see "man" walk on the moon "live"

Edited August 28, 2022 by phart

[phart]

the hype post

 

[Toepoke]

4 hours ago, phart said:

Been keeping an eye on it, be very interesting to actually see "man" walk on the moon "live"

A couple of years to wait for that but I'm super excited at the prospect. I was only 3 during Apollo 17, and although I'm sure I would've watched it, I certainly don't remember it!

 

[phart]

6 hours ago, Toepoke said:

A couple of years to wait for that but I'm super excited at the prospect. I was only 3 during Apollo 17, and although I'm sure I would've watched it, I certainly don't remember it!

 

I missed it all. So will be very cool for me.

[aaid]

6 hours ago, Toepoke said:

A couple of years to wait for that but I'm super excited at the prospect. I was only 3 during Apollo 17, and although I'm sure I would've watched it, I certainly don't remember it!

 

I must be a year older than you then as I was four but I’ve a hazy memory of watching it, one of my first childhood memories.

[Orraloon]

Hard to believe these guys are still using gallons and fahrenheit. 

[Toepoke]

1 hour ago, Orraloon said:

Hard to believe these guys are still using gallons and fahrenheit. 

Got them there the last time I suppose.

Launch scrubbed til Friday teatime at the earliest 😕

Bit of a bummer if you'd planned a trip around being there today. But at least I'll be at home to see it if it's go on the 2nd.

 

[phart]

1 hour ago, Toepoke said:

Got them there the last time I suppose.

Launch scrubbed til Friday teatime at the earliest 😕

Bit of a bummer if you'd planned a trip around being there today. But at least I'll be at home to see it if it's go on the 2nd.

 

Someone telling me got a valve problem as well as weather.

[Orraloon]

1 hour ago, Toepoke said:

Got them there the last time I suppose.

Launch scrubbed til Friday teatime at the earliest 😕

Bit of a bummer if you'd planned a trip around being there today. But at least I'll be at home to see it if it's go on the 2nd.

 

Probably couldn't find the AF socket set? 😉

[Orraloon]

1 hour ago, Toepoke said:

Got them there the last time I suppose.

 

 

Doesn't always work out though.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17350-nasa-criticised-for-sticking-to-imperial-units/#:~:text=Lost probe,navigation software used metric units.

[Toepoke]

44 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

Probably couldn't find the AF socket set? 😉

The 21/32" bit is always missing.