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17 hours ago, exile said:

To just shift the argument slightly. I presume there must be only two kinds of sexual identity (?) in the sense that you need one male thingie and one female thingy to make a baby. So I suspect that is binary whether people like it or not. (though modern medical science may say different, but we need to ask the mdeics/biologists on that front). Or I may be posting pish. But gender identity is surely more complex, and I don't really understand why people wish it were simpler.

what do you mean you suspect it's binary?  Just because people want to use different words to describe things doesn't mean the things have actually changed.  Whether you want to call it sex, gender, identity, alsdtrt, aldfjalsd or adfaljfa everyone can see with their own eyes one thing is different to the other.

i would probably call someone a he or a she if they wanted me to...out of politeness.  But in my actual brain I know they aren't.  It's when you're taking politeness and pushing for a new reality that is the problem.

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On 3/3/2019 at 7:37 PM, dandydunn said:

Seats in a football stadium are for sitting on.......

I’ll go one better

Seats in a football stadium which are for sitting on each have numbers on them within a designated section and alphabetical or numerical row which corresponds to an entry ticket for a reason 

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Maybe I'm in a bit of a new school of thought but I'm just thinking if we're overly focused on expressing negative opinions on the Trans community  in terms of the ongoing effort to make them feel included and less discriminated against etc etc then that probably says a lot more about us than it does about them.

With regards to gender specific sporting participation that does open up a much larger can of worms though. I wouldn't want to be part of any sports governing bodies in coming years that are tasked with coming up with rules and regulations behind this. Absolute no win situation.

This is definitely a worthy topic of the "unpopular opinions" thread.

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21 hours ago, exile said:

I am curious about why people are so concerned with this issue, why not just let people be? 

If people are so concerned about sports and toilets, what if all were simply made gender-neutral? 

I wouldn’t mind mixed toilets as long as it was all cubicles.

21 hours ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Because some people want to control speech and what people think, if you don’t agree 100% your a bigot. In my experience it’s the activists who aren’t even trans who make all the noise and are using Trans people to further some agenda. 

What an adult does with their bodies is there choice but giving hormone blockers to childen and other forms of treatment is child abuse. 

I didn’t know there were cases of children being given hormone blockers although I’m not surprised. In a world where people aren’t telling their new child’s sex so they aren’t ‘categorised’ my suspicion is more with the parents mental health than the child’s. Radio Scotland has a news report on a nursery in Edinburgh (of course it was) that no longer had gender defined toys or colours and then spoke to the parents who were all giving it “oh yes it’s fantastic. Horatio happily  plays with  a pram.” Then they spoke to wee Horatio and asked what his favourite toy was “I love the robot transformer, it turns into a car that shoots things.” Dad interrupts to say “But you like the tea set and Mimie doll?” I swear I could feel the puzzled slightly disgusted look Horatio gave the big drip as he replied “yeah okay but the čar shoots things.” 

My friend was born male but after years of misery, suicide attempts, psychiatric help and physical and mental abuse she was helped by the NHS to sort out a mistake that happened in her mother’s womb. She is now a gorgeous happy and settled wife and mum to her (adopted) son and she and her husband are foster carers. If she was a teenager today she wouldn’t have had to go through the nightmare she did have to endure but we’ve also discussed what would have happened to me. I hated being a girl, didn’t have girl pals, fought like a mad Taz devil and practísed blowing snot out my nose so I could do it when in goals for my school football team. And I won’t get into the batterings  I received for constantly trying to pee standing up and succeeding only in making our toilet reek of pee. We think our friendship was cemented by our masculine and feminine characteristics and oddities but unlike her I never ever considered physically changing my sex I just didn’t want to be a girl. I was just a tomboy and I’d hate it if wee girls couldn’t just be tomboys without people jumping on it as sexual identity problems.  But I’d detest it even more if we lived in a world where people don’t understand that things go wrong in the womb and they need to be sorted, understood and treated with the same understanding and sympathy that we give to all other ‘birth defects” (I use that term cautiously as I don’t like it but can’t think of another term. I’m sure you will thplinth and come along to tell me in your usual soft and tender manner) 

20 hours ago, thplinth said:

So next time when we see some guy knocking fuck out some girl we should be all.. 'why not let people be'? 

Stop it or I’ll challenge you to a peeing and snot blowing competition. Then the winner batters the loser and I’d hate to see you cry like a big lassie as I stand over your prostrate body with my foot resting on your hip and my arms held aloft while I make pretend crowd cheering noises.  

20 hours ago, thplinth said:

Lost you completely... wow, that did not take much.

You are happy to watch a guy in lipstick knock fuck out of a woman.

And I won’t be wearing lipstick!  😘😘

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Can we hurry up and move the thread onto chicks with big dicks ?

Unpopular ?

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9 hours ago, phart said:

Also a trained female fighter would fuck up most of the board. I'd be surprised if there was anyone on the board that could take Amanda nunez or cris cyborg.

Well this could be a thread on its own... Celebrity Tamb Deathmatches

I am calling shite. No way could an enraged andreimack be defeated by Amanda feckin Nunes even on her period.

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8 minutes ago, thplinth said:

Well this could be a thread on its own... Celebrity Tamb Deathmatches

I am calling shite. No way could an enraged andreimack be defeated by Amanda feckin Nunes even on her period.

I refer you to my earlier post. 😆😆

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37 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

Can we hurry up and move the thread onto chicks with big dicks ?

Unpopular ?

No ,I believe chicks with dix are a popular country music combo. 

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10 hours ago, phart said:

 

Good way to ignore my argument though, i'll just ban it so i don't have to think how that affects my views.

 

i could easily continue the argument but I have come to the conclusion that internet forums are not the best place to discuss such things. 

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4 hours ago, PapofGlencoe said:

How would you have a women's world cup if all sports were gender neutral?  Or have any women playing professional sport?

I just asked a question. 

Although I note 

10 hours ago, phart said:

Sports are gender neutral or used to be. It's woman that wanted their own classifications.

 

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4 hours ago, PapofGlencoe said:

what do you mean you suspect it's binary?  Just because people want to use different words to describe things doesn't mean the things have actually changed.  Whether you want to call it sex, gender, identity, alsdtrt, aldfjalsd or adfaljfa everyone can see with their own eyes one thing is different to the other.

i would probably call someone a he or a she if they wanted me to...out of politeness.  But in my actual brain I know they aren't.  It's when you're taking politeness and pushing for a new reality that is the problem.

By 'binary' I was referring to the distinction of male and female contributions to creating a (human) life. However it's more complex than that (thinking of chromosomes); and when you bring in gender identity if becomes more so, hence non-binary. There is of course a lot of controversy on sex and gender distinction  which is too complex to summarise concisely. 

But there seems to be a need for people to try to simplify it, and in the simplification, some people lose out, because the words used don't reflect the reality.  

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3 hours ago, bonzo said:

No ,I believe chicks with dix are a popular country music combo. 

My curiosity *cough" waned anyway after watching Ted 2 which put a bit of perspective on it ...

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10 hours ago, exile said:
 

 

i could easily continue the argument but I have come to the conclusion that internet forums are not the best place to discuss such things. 

I think my argument that it's immoral to let people born male fight in full contact matches with people born female. Is pretty well developed and empirically based.

I'm not trying to extend it beyond these parameters.

In a weird way this reminds me of Feynman on the shuttle disaster. The PR folk were saying how safe the shuttles were. Then they put a teacher on one and it blew up killing everyone on board and it turned out the engineers were saying it was 1/50-1/100 launches would be a fail not the astronomical number the PR people had put out. Feynman pointed out

For a successful technology," Feynman concluded, "reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled.

In other words reality is reality regardless of what humans say.

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12 hours ago, thplinth said:

Well this could be a thread on its own... Celebrity Tamb Deathmatches

I am calling shite. No way could an enraged andreimack be defeated by Amanda feckin Nunes even on her period.

How's he going to hurt her? He'll be out of gas in 90 seconds then she climbs all over him and takes an arm home for a trophy.

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2 hours ago, phart said:

I think my argument that it's immoral to let people born male fight in full contact matches with people born female. Is pretty well developed and empirically based.

I'm not trying to extend it beyond these parameters.

In a weird way this reminds me of Feynman on the shuttle disaster. The PR folk were saying how safe the shuttles were. Then they put a teacher on one and it blew up killing everyone on board and it turned out the engineers were saying it was 1/50-1/100 launches would be a fail not the astronomical number the PR people had put out. Feynman pointed out

For a successful technology," Feynman concluded, "reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled.

In other words reality is reality regardless of what humans say.

I don't know enough about combat sports, but the general principle seems to be it's immoral to allow people to fight each other who are mismatched in some way. That sounds fine to me but it surely raises further questions, about letting people try to knock each other out in the first place. However that is just something I have dropped into the thread as an unpopular opinion that I leave to others.  

I agree on the Feynman point: reality over PR, nature cannot be fooled. And that is my point. The biological reality is more complex than what some people try to make out, it is more complex than human language (or at least, everyday language) caters for. For me it's futile "PR" to pretend things like sex and gender are simple with everyone falling into one of two neatly defined boxes.   

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7 minutes ago, exile said:

 

I agree on the Feynman point:

I think you're supposed to call them Irish Catholics....:ph34r:

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1 hour ago, exile said:

I don't know enough about combat sports, but the general principle seems to be it's immoral to allow people to fight each other who are mismatched in some way. That sounds fine to me but it surely raises further questions, about letting people try to knock each other out in the first place. However that is just something I have dropped into the thread as an unpopular opinion that I leave to others.  

I agree on the Feynman point: reality over PR, nature cannot be fooled. And that is my point. The biological reality is more complex than what some people try to make out, it is more complex than human language (or at least, everyday language) caters for. For me it's futile "PR" to pretend things like sex and gender are simple with everyone falling into one of two neatly defined boxes.   

Yeah that's the whole point of weight classes, commissions to check records and make sure both fighters capable etc.  Consenting adults. Hard to have any moral authority if they agree to fight each other. But i take the point.

Are we debating that it falls into 2 separate neat piles, or are we debating whether someone born a man has significant advantages to someone born a woman in the context of unarmed combat?

I already know it's not 2 separate piles I understand you're addressing the thread in general , but i'm just debating within my own narrow parameters.

From my own eyes there seems to be a lot of hysteria around the subject.

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8 hours ago, phart said:

Yeah that's the whole point of weight classes, commissions to check records and make sure both fighters capable etc.  Consenting adults. Hard to have any moral authority if they agree to fight each other. But i take the point.

Are we debating that it falls into 2 separate neat piles, or are we debating whether someone born a man has significant advantages to someone born a woman in the context of unarmed combat?

I already know it's not 2 separate piles I understand you're addressing the thread in general , but i'm just debating within my own narrow parameters.

From my own eyes there seems to be a lot of hysteria around the subject.

As I implied earlier I don't understand the hysteria.  But probably said more than enough now. I leave the parameters of particular sports to others.

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Inter-generational equity is a dubious concept.

"that we inherit the Earth from previous generations and have an obligation to pass it on in reasonable condition to future generations.... Most people would acknowledge a moral obligation to future generations, particularly as people who are not yet born can have no say in decisions taken today that may affect them."

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It is a very controversial phrase but it exists now and it describes a lot of what is going on with this bullshit. Cultural Marxism. We are being broken down and these are the hammers. I would say we are in a war where nearly everyone is not even remotely aware of it. The enemy are the people we trust to look after us. They have all been bought. I am glad I am quite old because you young folk are utterly fucking defenseless. Think about when you are old and who you will be relying on. You are going to be surrounded by wolves.

Only kidding...

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6 minutes ago, phart said:

Cultural Marxism is the shit Anders Brevik was banging on about too.

Maybe time for a little straightener here.

What do you mean by that point?

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On 3/6/2019 at 7:36 PM, G-Man said:

I wouldn’t mind mixed toilets as long as it was all cubicles.

I didn’t know there were cases of children being given hormone blockers although I’m not surprised. In a world where people aren’t telling their new child’s sex so they aren’t ‘categorised’ my suspicion is more with the parents mental health than the child’s. Radio Scotland has a news report on a nursery in Edinburgh (of course it was) that no longer had gender defined toys or colours and then spoke to the parents who were all giving it “oh yes it’s fantastic. Horatio happily  plays with  a pram.” Then they spoke to wee Horatio and asked what his favourite toy was “I love the robot transformer, it turns into a car that shoots things.” Dad interrupts to say “But you like the tea set and Mimie doll?” I swear I could feel the puzzled slightly disgusted look Horatio gave the big drip as he replied “yeah okay but the čar shoots things.” 

My friend was born male but after years of misery, suicide attempts, psychiatric help and physical and mental abuse she was helped by the NHS to sort out a mistake that happened in her mother’s womb. She is now a gorgeous happy and settled wife and mum to her (adopted) son and she and her husband are foster carers. If she was a teenager today she wouldn’t have had to go through the nightmare she did have to endure but we’ve also discussed what would have happened to me. I hated being a girl, didn’t have girl pals, fought like a mad Taz devil and practísed blowing snot out my nose so I could do it when in goals for my school football team. And I won’t get into the batterings  I received for constantly trying to pee standing up and succeeding only in making our toilet reek of pee. We think our friendship was cemented by our masculine and feminine characteristics and oddities but unlike her I never ever considered physically changing my sex I just didn’t want to be a girl. I was just a tomboy and I’d hate it if wee girls couldn’t just be tomboys without people jumping on it as sexual identity problems.  But I’d detest it even more if we lived in a world where people don’t understand that things go wrong in the womb and they need to be sorted, understood and treated with the same understanding and sympathy that we give to all other ‘birth defects” (I use that term cautiously as I don’t like it but can’t think of another term. I’m sure you will thplinth and come along to tell me in your usual soft and tender manner) 

Stop it or I’ll challenge you to a peeing and snot blowing competition. Then the winner batters the loser and I’d hate to see you cry like a big lassie as I stand over your prostrate body with my foot resting on your hip and my arms held aloft while I make pretend crowd cheering noises.  

And I won’t be wearing lipstick!  😘😘

Ok but I am struggling to see why you name checked me in this post G-man. fuxsake.

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1 hour ago, thplinth said:

Maybe time for a little straightener here.

What do you mean by that point?

Cultural Marxism was a phrase repeated over 100 times in that manifesto of his.

It's a bogey man phrase which has been used by loads of mentals like Brevik and Pat Buchanan but you can't find a real definition, apart from some nefarious communist scheme to infect academia or something.

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