Racism in football

[phart]

5 hours ago, Toepoke said:

Seemed to originate when these guys all had a go at Corbyn in an election debate...

 

The word belongs to Owen Jones if anyone. Associate at your own risk.

[kumnio]

37 minutes ago, phart said:

The word belongs to Owen Jones if anyone. Associate at your own risk.

I agree with a lot of what he says, but can’t stand the prick, he is incredibly annoying. His hissy fit after Orlando was utterly pathetic IMO. 

In absolute contrast, I’d enjoy a pint with Milo Yiannopoulos, despite disagreeing with most of what he says. 

Doesnt really add anything to the topic, but Owen Jones, complete cunt. 

[Rolling hIlls]

2 hours ago, Scotland Ever More said:

Do you consider flower of Scotland bigoted?

I don't see a difference between bigoted and racist tbh.  It's still against fellow man.  And I am no saint although don't consider myself a bigot (but you assume I am because I support Rangers which is understandable).  I think there is a hypocrite in all of us.  As Scotty will testify we are no saints on this earth (except Ormond of course, St Johnstone that is Ormond before you go off on one again!).  We all have opinions and sometimes they don't make for good reading and we can be ashamed of what we say (or sing) sometimes.  As a society we are getting better imo and louts that are being caught on social media now should be a warning to us all.  But Flower of Scotland?  It's like asking a rebel in 1917 Ireland or a guy defending Derry's walls if it's riht or wrong, who knows, depends which side you are on.  It's all in the eye of the beholder I think.  I love my Scottish history but don't hate the English.  Different days and education has moved on for some of us.  But not all obviously in our wee country.  On a final note the old firm game lacked the atmosphere of the Celtic fans and I have already said on here that Rangers are wrong for that.  But you would need a degree in psychology to say whether a stadium half and half of one side screaming sectarian songs for 90 minutes is a good thing.  No real answers here from me but enjoy discussing it.  I have always had great patter and friendship with my pals no matter who they support.  Big Ramy is a prime example.  On here to wind things up and create a bit of banter. No stupid name calling and apologising if he has stepped over the mark.  So, do you think Flower of Scotland is racist SEM?  I honestly don't think so.  If it is then guilty as I have sang it 1000 times at home and abroad with Scotland.

[thplinth]

I think the attitudes towards racism against white people are sort of about where the attitudes towards racism against black people were in the 1970's. It is all a bit of laugh still and acceptable in a sort of spoken way. I wonder what the child victims of the Rotherham paedo rape gang would say about how real racism against white people can be. If someone started a thread just to highlight incidents of racist attacks I am pretty sure I could post more incidents against whites right now than you could post by whites. Shock sites are chockablock with these videos caught on CCTV. 

 

 

 

[exile]

Just thought I'd check a dictionary, where bigotry is given as "the fact of having and expressing strong, unreasonable beliefs and disliking other people who have different beliefs or a different way of life" and so is not directly about race or ethnicity. 

So, celebrating repelling a king and his invading army doesn't seem bigoted in the strictest sense, but context matters too - it isn't the most neighbourly song to have as a national anthem.

[Rolling hIlls]

1 minute ago, exile said:

Just thought I'd check a dictionary, where bigotry is given as "the fact of having and expressing strong, unreasonable beliefs and disliking other people who have different beliefs or a different way of life" and so is not directly about race or ethnicity. 

So, celebrating repelling a king and his invading army doesn't seem bigoted in the strictest sense, but context matters too - it isn't the most neighbourly song to have as a national anthem.

Context will be the death of us all!  I don't feel guilty for singing FOS or Killiekrankie.  But I am a proud Scot in my context.  Scotland Forever.

[RenfrewBlue]

4 hours ago, Scotland Ever More said:

1. At no point does he explain that.

2. Rebel songs aren't bigoted.

It didn't need explained. It was fairly obvious really. 

And your point 2 proves the point. Nobody said they were bigoted. Just divisive and offensive. 

You can't moan about songs like the sash if you think rebel songs are fine. It's just hypocrisy. 

[Scotland Ever More]

1 minute ago, RenfrewBlue said:

It didn't need explained. It was fairly obvious really. 

And your point 2 proves the point. Nobody said they were bigoted. Just divisive and offensive. 

You can't moan about songs like the sash if you think rebel songs are fine. It's just hypocrisy. 

I don't moan about them. You're obviously confusing me with someone else 

And if songs about Irish history offend you then perhaps you're the bigot. Of course they're divisive, but you could say that about literally every single song in the world.

Edited January 1, 2019 by Scotland Ever More

[RenfrewBlue]

2 minutes ago, Scotland Ever More said:

I don't moan about them. You're obviously confusing me with someone else 

And if songs about Irish history offend you then perhaps you're the bigot. Of course they're divisive, but you could say that about literally every single song in the world.

Sorry when I said "you" I meant in the general sense not specifically you. 

I don't get offended by any songs either (except Mariah Carey, her warbling rips ma knitting). Again it was more a general term. 

Strictly speaking it's not the Irish history bit that bothers folk, I don't think. It's more the celebration of murderers and rebels. 

You have to remember that quite a few folk in this country have a real allegiance to the Queen and her servants such as her Armed Forces. Rebel songs are probably their equivalent to some of the daft songs sung by the Orange bams. 

There's Free Speech in this country but just because you can say something doesn't always mean you should.

[Scotland Ever More]

14 minutes ago, RenfrewBlue said:

Sorry when I said "you" I meant in the general sense not specifically you. 

I don't get offended by any songs either (except Mariah Carey, her warbling rips ma knitting). Again it was more a general term. 

Strictly speaking it's not the Irish history bit that bothers folk, I don't think. It's more the celebration of murderers and rebels. 

You have to remember that quite a few folk in this country have a real allegiance to the Queen and her servants such as her Armed Forces. Rebel songs are probably their equivalent to some of the daft songs sung by the Orange bams. 

There's Free Speech in this country but just because you can say something doesn't always mean you should.

Rather than turn  things into another thread about the rights and many many wrongs of the armed forces and people who have an allegiance to the Queen, let's just say that nobody should ever let their feelings dictate anything they do in life.

Although now it does appear that we are indeed equating it to racism. I don't think there's anyone who would class racism as free speech 

Edited January 1, 2019 by Scotland Ever More

[Rolling hIlls]

31 minutes ago, Scotland Ever More said:

Rather than turn  things into another thread about the rights and many many wrongs of the armed forces and people who have an allegiance to the Queen, let's just say that nobody should ever let their feelings dictate anything they do in life.

Although now it does appear that we are indeed equating it to racism. I don't think there's anyone who would class racism as free speech 

Free speech comes at a price.  Lucky we have the freedom to do that in this country.  Many others throughout the world do not. Just lucky I suppose.

[ParisInAKilt]

3 hours ago, kumnio said:

Doesnt really add anything to the topic, but Owen Jones, complete cunt. 

No harm in reminding the board every now and then though. 

[RenfrewBlue]

55 minutes ago, Scotland Ever More said:

Rather than turn  things into another thread about the rights and many many wrongs of the armed forces and people who have an allegiance to the Queen, let's just say that nobody should ever let their feelings dictate anything they do in life.

Although now it does appear that we are indeed equating it to racism. I don't think there's anyone who would class racism as free speech 

I don't know if you are being deliberately obtuse or I'm just not expressing myself properly. I'm knackered after a 5am finished followed by a 9am start. 

Freedom of Speech means you can say what you like as long as you don't break any of the other laws. Racism is obviously illegal, so isnt covered by freedom of speech. 

I'm also not equating racism to rebel songs either. 

With me so far? 

I'm equating rebel songs to some of the orange songs. They're opposite sides of the same coin. If you want rid of one set of idiots you can't praise or protect the others. 

 

[Scotland Ever More]

9 minutes ago, RenfrewBlue said:

I don't know if you are being deliberately obtuse or I'm just not expressing myself properly. I'm knackered after a 5am finished followed by a 9am start. 

Freedom of Speech means you can say what you like as long as you don't break any of the other laws. Racism is obviously illegal, so isnt covered by freedom of speech. 

I'm also not equating racism to rebel songs either. 

With me so far? 

I'm equating rebel songs to some of the orange songs. They're opposite sides of the same coin. If you want rid of one set of idiots you can't praise or protect the others. 

 

Nobody is being obtuse. Going back to the post DTS made, he says "racism isn't going away but where's the outrage about people singing rebel songs?"

That says to me that he believes they are the same thing. I can't see why he'd even mention if he thought otherwise. Whataboutery because it was a fellow Hibs fan perhaps 

You appointed yourself his spokesperson so it seemed like you agreed at first, so thank you for clarifying, however it still seems that you group them together with stuff that you shouldn't sing, including racism. They aren't even close to being in the same group.

[macy37]

7 hours ago, Rolling hIlls said:

Sitting having a drink with my partner.  Waiting on steak pie cooking then going out in Gala for a wee while to meet colleagues.  Nothing wrong wi that SEM?  Na, don't fall out, I think hatred is bad all over.  But in saying that I can sit in the Celtic club and listen to the songs and comfortable with being in a pub of Rangers supporters singing the sash etc.  I don't take it seriously and people I know get that.  Unfortunately as in life you always get some who go too far.  Anyone who goes to a game nowadays and gets caught on camera singing or shouting sectarian or racist pish deserves all they get.  You are Celtic and Scotland as a lot of my mates are.  Be proud of that mate.  Have a good day and I mean that 👍

You’re going out in Gala ffs....there’s fuck all correct in that. 

[Grumpyauldgit]

If you want to sing song's about Ireland (North or South), why don't you just feck off back there, because your not wanted or needed here.

And before anybody starts, giving me the old "you need to be Irish to understand" sh*t, or the "it's our cultural heritage" crap, my mother is from Belfast and my dad's mum came from Dublin, which must make me, more Irish than most of the fecktards, who sing Sean South and the Sash.

[Scotland Ever More]

11 minutes ago, Grumpyauldgit said:

If you want to sing song's about Ireland (North or South), why don't you just feck off back there, because your not wanted or needed here.

And before anybody starts, giving me the old "you need to be Irish to understand" sh*t, or the "it's our cultural heritage" crap, my mother is from Belfast and my dad's mum came from Dublin, which must make me, more Irish than most of the fecktards, who sing Sean South and the Sash.

Do you tell Asian or African people to fuck off back there if they want to sing their songs, out of interest?

[sbcmfc]

3 minutes ago, Scotland Ever More said:

Do you tell Asian or African people to fuck off back there if they want to sing their songs, out of interest?

But you’re not Irish, that’s his point.

[Scotland Ever More]

1 minute ago, sbcmfc said:

But you’re not Irish, that’s his point.

"If you want to sing songs about Ireland then why don't you feck off back there"

If you're going to tell me what someone else's point is then at least read what they wrote.

Edited January 2, 2019 by Scotland Ever More

[sbcmfc]

1 minute ago, Scotland Ever More said:

"If you want to sing songs about Ireland then why don't you feck off back there"

If you're going to tell me what someone else's point is then at least read what they wrote.

He does say “back there” which suggests they’d come from Ireland

I’d (I think correctly, despite his poor choice of words) assumed he was referring to plastic paddy’s that had never been anywhere more Irish than the gallowgate or Santa ponsa.

 

[Scotland Ever More]

1 minute ago, sbcmfc said:

He does say “back there” which suggests they’d come from Ireland

I’d (I think correctly, despite his poor choice of words) assumed he was referring to plastic paddy’s that had never been anywhere more Irish than the gallowgate or Santa ponsa.

 

Well I'll rephrase the question for him then.

Does he tell 2nd and 3rd generation Asians and Africans to fuck off there if they want to sing their traditional songs?

[Grumpyauldgit]

1 minute ago, Scotland Ever More said:

Do you tell Asian or African people to fuck off back there if they want to sing their songs, out of interest?

I really could not tell you, as I have never seen an African or an Asian pished out of their minds, singing sectarian songs and trying to cause a fight, but if I do, I will let you know the results.

[sbcmfc]

14 minutes ago, Scotland Ever More said:

Well I'll rephrase the question for him then.

Does he tell 2nd and 3rd generation Asians and Africans to fuck off there if they want to sing their traditional songs?

That seems a fair point in principle.

The lines are blurred, with people who have no Irish heritage singing songs that are in support of paramilitary/terrorist groups.

[Scotland Ever More]

17 minutes ago, Grumpyauldgit said:

I really could not tell you, as I have never seen an African or an Asian pished out of their minds, singing sectarian songs and trying to cause a fight, but if I do, I will let you know the results.

 

18 minutes ago, Grumpyauldgit said:

I really could not tell you, as I have never seen an African or an Asian pished out of their minds, singing sectarian songs and trying to cause a fight, but if I do, I will let you know the results.

I think I can guess what the results would be, Tommy.

[Grumpyauldgit]

23 minutes ago, sbcmfc said:

He does say “back there” which suggests they’d come from Ireland

I’d (I think correctly, despite his poor choice of words) assumed he was referring to plastic paddy’s that had never been anywhere more Irish than the gallowgate or Santa ponsa. 

 

You are correct in assuming that I am referring to the plastic paddy, (If I could write I would be a lawyer, since I can't I'm a chef), you know the mob I'm talking about, the one's that once heard that their granny saw somebody drink a Guinness, and that makes the Irish, as opposed to people actually born there.

As previously stated I am half Irish myself, and my father was also half Irish, and this must make me more Irish than the fecktards that sing the party songs.

If they want to sing Danny boy, the Rose of Tralee, Paddy Maginty's goat, feel free to sing away, I might even join in, but as soon as you start sing sectarian shit, that crosses a line with me, and who ever it is can feck off, back to where ever they consider their cultural homeland.