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Few incidents over the weekend.

Stan Collymore saying its like the 70’s again and Ian Wright saying the bad old days are back. 

Is it just me or are they overreacting? I was born in the 80’s so never seen how bad it was in that era but I struggle to believe it’s not gotten better. 

These clowns from the weekend have been publicly condemned and will likely receive large bans. 

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Getting racist abuse shouted at you is the old days being back, to the player the response and folk backing them will be secondary.

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1 minute ago, phart said:

Getting racist abuse shouted at you is the old days being back, to the player the response and folk backing them will be secondary.

In that sense has the old days ever gone away? 

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I think in todays age with cameras everywhere and the non-stop presence of social media it's easy to notice and highlight these incidents. Including footballers themselves, without even giving it much thought I could reference:

Dani Alves v Villareal.

Scott Sinclair v Rangers.

Scott Sinclair v Aberdeen.

That roaster stumbling outside McChuils filming himself chanting about Sinclair.

El Hadj Diouf v Celtic.

Tonev v Shay Logan.

Suarez v Patrice Evra.

Sterling v Chelsea.

Chelsea fans in Paris.

 

These were all reasonably high profile and all caught on camera. It's likely never gone away to be honest. Just more easily picked up on now.

Edited by Tartan_McCole

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I've read on fans forums that Paul Wilson (Celtic) regularly had flying bananas and monkey chants from Rangers fans back in the 1970s and then in the 1980s Mark Walters regularly had flying bananas and monkey chants from Celtic fans. Are both these cases true ?

Anyone know what ultimately was the outcome of the Gary Mackay and Kevin Harper incident in the 1990s ?

Victorian Scotland seems not to have cared in the slightest about Andrew Watson's skin colour when he played for Queens Park and Scotland in the 1870s and 1880s.

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1 minute ago, ErsatzThistle said:

I've read on fans forums that Paul Wilson (Celtic) regularly had flying bananas and monkey chants from Rangers fans back in the 1970s and then in the 1980s Mark Walters regularly had flying bananas and monkey chants from Celtic fans. Are both these cases true ?

Anyone know what ultimately was the outcome of the Gary Mackay and Kevin Harper incident in the 1990s ?

Victorian Scotland seems not to have cared in the slightest about Andrew Watson's skin colour when he played for Queens Park and Scotland in the 1870s and 1880s.

I'd have been too young in the 70s to know of the Paul Wilson incidents ( in fact I'm not sure I've heard of him) but do remember a few incidents regarding Mark Walters when he first signed and I'm sure there is footage around somewhere of him taking a corner with bananas lying near his feet.  Whether it was incident or incidents I don't recall enough to pass comment on.

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1 hour ago, ErsatzThistle said:

I've read on fans forums that Paul Wilson (Celtic) regularly had flying bananas and monkey chants from Rangers fans back in the 1970s and then in the 1980s Mark Walters regularly had flying bananas and monkey chants from Celtic fans. Are both these cases true ?

Anyone know what ultimately was the outcome of the Gary Mackay and Kevin Harper incident in the 1990s ?

Victorian Scotland seems not to have cared in the slightest about Andrew Watson's skin colour when he played for Queens Park and Scotland in the 1870s and 1880s.

The Walters story is definitely true. Think some arsehole even turned up to the game in a monkey suit as well.

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1 hour ago, ErsatzThistle said:

I've read on fans forums that Paul Wilson (Celtic) regularly had flying bananas and monkey chants from Rangers fans back in the 1970s and then in the 1980s Mark Walters regularly had flying bananas and monkey chants from Celtic fans. Are both these cases true ?

Anyone know what ultimately was the outcome of the Gary Mackay and Kevin Harper incident in the 1990s ?

Victorian Scotland seems not to have cared in the slightest about Andrew Watson's skin colour when he played for Queens Park and Scotland in the 1870s and 1880s.

I don't remember bananas being thrown at Paul Wilson. However, there were chants  from Rangers fans about him being a "darkie" to which the Celtic fans would chant back that they'd rather be one of them than a hun.

The Mark Walters stuff is definitely true and at its worst at Parkhead and Tynecastle.

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I'm not sure that bananas had reached Scotland at the time Paul Wilson was playing? Even if they had, no self respecting hooligan would be throwing bananas when there were plenty beer cans, half full of pish to be used instead.

 

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4 hours ago, ParisInAKilt said:

In that sense has the old days ever gone away? 

No idea. I'm assuming their must be some material change for it to come up again.

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27 minutes ago, phart said:

No idea. I'm assuming their must be some material change for it to come up again.

The main reason it has come to the fore again is that over the last six or seven years, our government, media and other mainstream political figures have done their utmost to stir up racial tension. From the Home Office Go Home vans that were paraded about the streets of Britain, to the Brexit campaign which turned into scapegoating of immigrants and the recent windrush scandal, we've got just a small taste of this on going campaign to blame immigrants for Britains ills and as a result there are a huge number of individuals who believe racism is fair game again.

We also live in a dangerous time where everybody thinks they are entitled to their opinion and that their 'free speech' shouldn't be curtailed and that includes calling people like Sterling a black cunt. It's a shameful scenario that has been facilitated by the government and the media who have ran scaremongering campaigns and this is the direct result. The only way to tackle this and particularly at football is to stand up and be counted, if you hear any racist abuse condemn it there and then, call these people out and make sure that they do not have a platform to air them, that is the best way to tackle these cretins.

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37 minutes ago, Mox said:

The main reason it has come to the fore again is that over the last six or seven years, our government, media and other mainstream political figures have done their utmost to stir up racial tension. From the Home Office Go Home vans that were paraded about the streets of Britain, to the Brexit campaign which turned into scapegoating of immigrants and the recent windrush scandal, we've got just a small taste of this on going campaign to blame immigrants for Britains ills and as a result there are a huge number of individuals who believe racism is fair game again.

We also live in a dangerous time where everybody thinks they are entitled to their opinion and that their 'free speech' shouldn't be curtailed and that includes calling people like Sterling a black cunt. It's a shameful scenario that has been facilitated by the government and the media who have ran scaremongering campaigns and this is the direct result. The only way to tackle this and particularly at football is to stand up and be counted, if you hear any racist abuse condemn it there and then, call these people out and make sure that they do not have a platform to air them, that is the best way to tackle these cretins.

Well said @Mox. Totally agree. 

Ever thought of standing for Parliament? 😉

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2 hours ago, daviebee said:

I don't remember bananas being thrown at Paul Wilson. However, there were chants  from Rangers fans about him being a "darkie" to which the Celtic fans would chant back that they'd rather be one of them than a hun.

The Mark Walters stuff is definitely true and at its worst at Parkhead and Tynecastle.

Vivdly remember the abuse Walters got and it was Parkhead and Tyncastle as you say. Don't remember anywhere else being like that. 

I don't know the Celtic player and would have been too young to be watching the news or anything that would have highlighted it. 

Edit

Apparently Wilson was born in Bangalore when his Scottish Dad married a Dutch Portuguese woman. The Wiki quote on abuse just says "He had dark skin tone and received racist abuse in his football career during Old Firm games against rivals Rangers and from supporters of his own club.". 

 

Edited by RenfrewBlue
Wiki quote added
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Maybe my memory is hazy but did an episode of Sportscene not open with the host - McPherson or Donnelly - standing holding a banana?

The first time Walters played at Tynecastle I think?

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1 hour ago, Mox said:

The main reason it has come to the fore again is that over the last six or seven years, our government, media and other mainstream political figures have done their utmost to stir up racial tension. From the Home Office Go Home vans that were paraded about the streets of Britain, to the Brexit campaign which turned into scapegoating of immigrants and the recent windrush scandal, we've got just a small taste of this on going campaign to blame immigrants for Britains ills and as a result there are a huge number of individuals who believe racism is fair game again.

We also live in a dangerous time where everybody thinks they are entitled to their opinion and that their 'free speech' shouldn't be curtailed and that includes calling people like Sterling a black cunt. It's a shameful scenario that has been facilitated by the government and the media who have ran scaremongering campaigns and this is the direct result. The only way to tackle this and particularly at football is to stand up and be counted, if you hear any racist abuse condemn it there and then, call these people out and make sure that they do not have a platform to air them, that is the best way to tackle these cretins.

Well said👍 Still think clubs could do more, they all play the behaviour warning speel before kick off but don’t back it up when we can all hear bigotry or racism Loud and clear during live TV games.

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9 minutes ago, RDFH64 said:

Well said👍 Still think clubs could do more, they all play the behaviour warning speel before kick off but don’t back it up when we can all hear bigotry or racism Loud and clear during live TV games.

Probably opening a can of worms but the same can be said about sectarianism which is a bigger problem in Scotland. The club's should be doing a lot more as could the governing bodies

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There is direct racism like namecalling and an indirect version that I think Sterling was getting at, claiming the press pick on certain players in a way they wouldn't do if they were white. There was an article recently where Daley Thompson said something similar - he felt he was treated differently, called 'difficult' and so on - when he whistled at the national anthem he was condemned as being disrespectful but when Bradley Wiggins put his tongue out, it was seen as a bit of boyish irreverence.  I paraphrase.  The article was in the sunday/times and/or mail if people wish to track down for the exact wording. I draw attention to it (indirect) because it's something that is understood and claimed by those those who suffer it even if the rest of the population don't notice.

 

Edited by exile

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1 hour ago, RenfrewBlue said:

Vivdly remember the abuse Walters got and it was Parkhead and Tyncastle as you say. Don't remember anywhere else being like that. 

I don't know the Celtic player and would have been too young to be watching the news or anything that would have highlighted it. 

Edit

Apparently Wilson was born in Bangalore when his Scottish Dad married a Dutch Portuguese woman. The Wiki quote on abuse just says "He had dark skin tone and received racist abuse in his football career during Old Firm games against rivals Rangers and from supporters of his own club.". 

 

To mimic a well known peanut advert at the time in the 70’s,  Celtic fans had their own chant about PW

“Paul Wilson, he’s jungle fresh, Paul Wilson he’s jungle fresh”

 

PEANUTSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

Seems mental now, but that was Celtic support ( in the Jungle IRONY ALERT ) endearing chant about one of their hero’s.

 

 

fans had a chant about Paul Wilson 

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Thank you to those who answered my questions regarding Walters and Wilson. Some very good points and observations have been made on this thread :ok:

And refreshing too that there's been no one giving it the old excuse for racism at the fitba "whits everyone moaning aboot, back in the seventies we used tae make fun of them aw the time and nae kunt complained" :rolleyes:

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1 hour ago, Big Col said:

Maybe my memory is hazy but did an episode of Sportscene not open with the host - McPherson or Donnelly - standing holding a banana?

The first time Walters played at Tynecastle I think?

No, spot on. It’s on YouTube.

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1 hour ago, ErsatzThistle said:

Thank you to those who answered my questions regarding Walters and Wilson. Some very good points and observations have been made on this thread :ok:

And refreshing too that there's been no one giving it the old excuse for racism at the fitba "whits everyone moaning aboot, back in the seventies we used tae make fun of them aw the time and nae kunt complained" :rolleyes:

It was pretty shocking to see, even in the 1980s, though at the time probably called out as a few mindless knuckledraggers.

Whereas in the 70s  I seem to remember (via documentaries, ahem) that it was more routine for managers and maybe even commentators to openly make ignorant remarks, about certain players being OK to be wingers but not in more key positions of responsibility.   

Edited by exile

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I was at Walters first game for Rangers, at Parkhead. Horrific day when you look at it now but at the time it was, well Scotland as a whole wasn’t as well educated and it was a “novelty”, not really the right word, for black players to be playing in Scotland.

One of the tabloids, can’t think which one now, even joked about the east end of Glasgow being sold out of bananas beforehand. And yes, as SEM says above, there was at least one person in the Celtic end hoisted up on the crush barriers dressed in full gorilla suit. 

Walters, shamefully, got pelters. My mate copped a quite ripe banana on his shoulder as we stood in the middle of the Jungle.

I was also at the game, a pre-season in 1986, v Aston Villa, where the ooo ahh up the Ra chants started. Originally it was a % of the Jungle making monkey chants at the black Villa players including Paul Elliot and Tony Daley amongst others.

There was other examples. Gullit I am sure says his worst racist abuse received was at Love St. And if you want a real eye opener, go onto YT and watch us beating England 1-0 in 1985 at Hamden. I always look back on that game fondly, second Scotland game, 1-0 win over England. Went to watch the highlights again recently, the abuse the likes of Viv Anderson got was dreadful. But if I hadn’t watched those highlights again I would never have believed it. I was oblivious to it at the time.

 

 

2.30 in and a LOT of chants about Sambo at Anderson, 3.30 in he gets dogs abuse again. Shameful.

 

There have been some recent incidents but they are more isolated. Not excusing them but we, as a people and country, have definitely came a long way since the mid 80s. Or most of us have.

 

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I think Dalgety bay is correct.

We have come on leaps and bounds since the 80s.

The abuse I saw guys like Paul Elliott take when I was a kid was unbelievable looking back now. It was not just a few loan idiots either.

While there’s still a long way to go, it’s not accepted now, and the majority of folk will not tolerate this behaviour as we’ve seen this weekend. We live in far more enlightened times on a lot of fronts fortunately, where the racists and bigots are marginalised.

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Sinclair incident then the Tynecastle one and not much said about them yet it happens at Stamford Bridge and the whole world is on it and rightly so.

Like sectarianism racism in Scotland is treated very much like the secret that the authorities wish to keep.

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