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Strength in depth

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17 hours ago, er yir macaroon said:

He should be practicing for half an hour with his right everyday. It would help him even when at left back. So many times forwards force full back onto their weaker foot so they can’t clear it up the line. They end up sclaffing  it straight to the opposition in the middle of the pitch.  

For club, Tierney is pretty guilty of always playing the safe ball back to the defence with his left when under pressure. Would improve tenfold if he had the confidence to be able to use his right more often.

Edited by Tartan_McCole

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On 11/21/2018 at 9:28 PM, Templeton_Peck said:

I think Tierney has to realise he can either be first choice right back or 2nd choice left back. Its as simple as that..

I think we all know Paterson hates playing right back but fair play to him for putting a couple of shifts in. He should be in the mix for striker as he is very good in the air. 

Im slightly worried about a lack of goalkeeper coming through. Hopefully mcrorie comes through although i would be very happy for angus gunn to realise he is scottish..

I wouldn't be. MacGregor and Gordon are both good for a few years yet. McLaughlin is quite a few years younger and will plug the gap till Robbie  McCrorie and Liam Kelly  have more experience. There's also Zander Clark though I'm not sure about his age.

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24 minutes ago, Third Lanark said:

I wouldn't be. MacGregor and Gordon are both good for a few years yet. McLaughlin is quite a few years younger and will plug the gap till Robbie  McCrorie and Liam Kelly  have more experience. There's also Zander Clark though I'm not sure about his age.

Liam Kelly should already be in the squad.

McCrorie & Doohan both look decent.

Its not that bad.

Plus McGregor could go on a few years yet. 

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On ‎11‎/‎22‎/‎2018 at 2:39 PM, Texas Pete said:

McLeish making Robertson captain would suggest that you are correct but Robertson hasn’t exactly been spectacular for us in recent matches.  

He’s been solid since we’ve reverted to a back 4 obviously as he is a class player but all it would take is for Robertson to miss one match through injury and for Tierney to perform well at left back and a McLeish (or our next manager) would have a decision to make again. 

I don’t really think Tierney minds playing at right back that much though and will do a decent job for us there I’m sure. Must be frustrating for him though.

The comment about Robertson not being exactly spectacular in the last few games took me back (showing my age) to the criticism Dalgleish used to take for "not playing as well" for Scotland ! Robertson had a crap game in Israel but so did the whole team (and yeah I get he's captain) but against Albania he was prolific - I'm sure most of you were there and saw the miles he covered and how much he does off the ball - it really brings home his passion and belief. He had a good game on Tuesday too and really has only had the one off game. The guy is, with perhaps Forrest if he can continue this form , our one world class player.( Not putting down the others who are doing well). Remember he's a young captain - truly exciting leader for the country's team. A bad Andy R would still be a first pick for us !      

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5 minutes ago, WeeJohnny said:

The comment about Robertson not being exactly spectacular in the last few games took me back (showing my age) to the criticism Dalgleish used to take for "not playing as well" for Scotland ! Robertson had a crap game in Israel but so did the whole team (and yeah I get he's captain) but against Albania he was prolific - I'm sure most of you were there and saw the miles he covered and how much he does off the ball - it really brings home his passion and belief. He had a good game on Tuesday too and really has only had the one off game. The guy is, with perhaps Forrest if he can continue this form , our one world class player.( Not putting down the others who are doing well). Remember he's a young captain - truly exciting leader for the country's team. A bad Andy R would still be a first pick for us !      

Robertson hasn’t been great for us when he has been played out of position. That’s not really his fault.

He also hasn’t been as impressive going forward for us as he is for Liverpool but that will have more to do with the players he had around him and isn’t really a criticism of Robertson. 

My point was really about the fact that lots of people think Tierney is a better left back than Robertson and that Robertson isn’t guaranteed to keep that position. Who knows who’ll be playing there for us in 5 years?

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On 11/21/2018 at 2:04 PM, andyD said:

So, hopefully we're now settled on a formation and a system for the remainder of McLeish's reign (and maybe beyond).
For me, 4231 is the only thing we should be considering, but do we have enough depth to be able to play it despite call offs?

GK: McGregor, Gordon, McLaughlin

RB: O'Donnell, Paterson, Palmer, Ralston (or Tierney)
LB: Robertson, Tierney, Douglas, Kingsley
RCB: Souttar, Bates, Devlin, Hanley, Hendry, Lindsey
LCB: McKenna, Mulgrew, Tierney, Berra

CDM: McGregor, McTominay, Shinnie, Fleck, McDonald
CM: Armstrong, McGinn, Bannan, Cairney

RW: Forrest, Russell, Phillips, Burke
LW: Fraser, McKay, Morgan, GMS
SS: McGregor, Paterson, GMS, Bannan, Snodgrass

CF: Fletcher, Griffiths, Naismith, McBurnie, Rhodes

To me it feels like right back and left wing are our problem areas in terms of depth.
But overall it feels like we've got a bit more quality among the wider squad of players than we've had for a long while.

Right back is our worst area. I think that Tierney at right-back is probably our best option at the moment, although O'Donnell has played quite well in the few games that he's played for us.

Any weakness at left-wing could probably be compensated by playing someone like Russell, Phillips or Snodgrass out there. It ultimately depends on what McLeish wants his wingers to do in a given game (ie. be players to stay out wide, be wider strikers, be wide attacking midfielders, etc.) which would determine who would be the best alternative to Fraser.

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11 hours ago, Clyde1998 said:

Right back is our worst area. I think that Tierney at right-back is probably our best option at the moment, although O'Donnell has played quite well in the few games that he's played for us.

Any weakness at left-wing could probably be compensated by playing someone like Russell, Phillips or Snodgrass out there. It ultimately depends on what McLeish wants his wingers to do in a given game (ie. be players to stay out wide, be wider strikers, be wide attacking midfielders, etc.) which would determine who would be the best alternative to Fraser.

About time we forgot about McArthur, Snodgrass etc.

Russell I just don’t see as good enough, soon to be overtaken by the likes of Middleton & Johnston.

RB fair comment. Be nice to see McCrorie get shifted there. Who plays there for the under 21s?

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2 hours ago, ProudScot said:

About time we forgot about McArthur, Snodgrass etc.

Russell I just don’t see as good enough, soon to be overtaken by the likes of Middleton & Johnston.

RB fair comment. Be nice to see McCrorie get shifted there. Who plays there for the under 21s?

Liam Smith. He’s been good and only seems to be on a one year contract at Ayr Utd, after being released by Hearts (which seems strange). 

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On 11/24/2018 at 7:45 PM, er yir macaroon said:

Liam Smith. He’s been good and only seems to be on a one year contract at Ayr Utd, after being released by Hearts (which seems strange). 

He was very much an opportunistic signing. He became available and MCCall moved quickly to sign him, don’t imagine we had the budget to offer him the same terms over 2years or that he would’ve taken the risk of signing on for more than a season since we were widely tipped to be relegation fodder.

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1 hour ago, Baz said:

He was very much an opportunistic signing. He became available and MCCall moved quickly to sign him, don’t imagine we had the budget to offer him the same terms over 2years or that he would’ve taken the risk of signing on for more than a season since we were widely tipped to be relegation fodder.

It’s not so much the one year contract that’s strange, it’s that Hearts let him go. 

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17 hours ago, ScotsRik said:

Question....has Tierney ever been played at left back when Robertson played?

Just a pub debate about who is best although we all agreed we are luck in this ONE position!

The 0-3 loss to Slovakia..

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On 12/4/2018 at 7:38 PM, ScotsRik said:

Question....has Tierney ever been played at left back when Robertson played?

Just a pub debate about who is best although we all agreed we are luck in this ONE position!

I don't think so.  Plenty with Robertson left and Tierney right - and we've done quite well in all those matches. 

  • 1-0 win v Slovenia
  • 2-2 draw v England
  • 3-0 win v Lithuania
  • 2-0 win v Malta
  • 1-0 win v Slovakia
  • 2-2 draw v Slovania

For the debate...Robertson is playing better now but look at where Robertson was at Tierney's age and I think it shows that KT has the potential to go even further than Robertson, but will need to leave Celtic at some point and move to one of Europes elite clubs, as Robertson has. 

23 hours ago, andyD said:

The 0-3 loss to Slovakia..

Fake news.  Robertson was an unused sub.  Tierney was LB and Paterson was RB. 

Edited by PASTA Mick

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3 hours ago, PASTA Mick said:

I don't think so.  Plenty with Robertson left and Tierney right - and we've done quite well in all those matches. 

  • 1-0 win v Slovenia
  • 2-2 draw v England
  • 3-0 win v Lithuania
  • 2-0 win v Malta
  • 1-0 win v Slovakia
  • 2-2 draw v Slovania

For the debate...Robertson is playing better now but look at where Robertson was at Tierney's age and I think it shows that KT has the potential to go even further than Robertson, but will need to leave Celtic at some point and move to one of Europes elite clubs, as Robertson has. 

Fake news.  Robertson was an unused sub.  Tierney was LB and Paterson was RB. 

england game he was left center back in a 3 wasnt he, was anya not right back? 

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16 hours ago, LewisEDI said:

england game he was left center back in a 3 wasnt he, was anya not right back? 

Yes he was.

Apparently a draw against the team ranked 5th isn't enough to convince people that a back three works. Only a 5:0 win would've won people over, and maybe not even that.... because "our players are used to playing with a flat back four"... which is obvious, as we're so good at it. </sarcasm>

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4 hours ago, Chripper said:

Yes he was.

Apparently a draw against the team ranked 5th isn't enough to convince people that a back three works. Only a 5:0 win would've won people over, and maybe not even that.... because "our players are used to playing with a flat back four"... which is obvious, as we're so good at it. </sarcasm>

With our players, 4-3-3 works best for us.

It gets the best out of most of our key players; Robertson, McGregor, Armstrong, Forrest and Fraser.

A back 3 doesn't really suit any of them unless you go 3-4-3, which I don't think we'd ever do.  It ends up being more like a 3-6-1 or a 5-4-1.

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22 minutes ago, PASTA Mick said:

With our players, 4-3-3 works best for us.

It gets the best out of most of our key players; Robertson, McGregor, Armstrong, Forrest and Fraser.

A back 3 doesn't really suit any of them unless you go 3-4-3, which I don't think we'd ever do.  It ends up being more like a 3-6-1 or a 5-4-1.

I honestly think that 4 at the back has been done to death, it's time to try something new. Plus with the emergence of Souttar, McKenna and Bates, it might be time to try 3 at the back. Those 3 might end up in the EPL. Plus we have no right back.

Most people want 4 at the back, and I completely respect that, but what I don't respect is people justifying it by saying that "most of our defenders play 4 at the back". This holds no weight, as when we did use 3 at the back and were successful with it none of the defenders played it at club level.

Also, in midweek at least 3 SPL teams started with a variant of 3 at the back, so it's not like it's a formation that's been resigned to the 1900s

We should go with either 3-5-2 or 3-4-3.

Sadly, though, I think McLeish has tried 3 at the back enough (one or two matches) and he'll go back to the 4. Personally I don't care what formation we play as long as we win, but I think we'll do better with a 3 if we persevere with it.

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3 hours ago, Chripper said:

I honestly think that 4 at the back has been done to death, it's time to try something new. Plus with the emergence of Souttar, McKenna and Bates, it might be time to try 3 at the back. Those 3 might end up in the EPL. Plus we have no right back.

Most people want 4 at the back, and I completely respect that, but what I don't respect is people justifying it by saying that "most of our defenders play 4 at the back". This holds no weight, as when we did use 3 at the back and were successful with it none of the defenders played it at club level.

Also, in midweek at least 3 SPL teams started with a variant of 3 at the back, so it's not like it's a formation that's been resigned to the 1900s

We should go with either 3-5-2 or 3-4-3.

Sadly, though, I think McLeish has tried 3 at the back enough (one or two matches) and he'll go back to the 4. Personally I don't care what formation we play as long as we win, but I think we'll do better with a 3 if we persevere with it.

Like I said, playing 3 at the back puts too many players in a formation in which I don't think we would see the best of them.

It is no surprise that Forrest had his best two games when he was part of a forward 3 with less defensive duties asked of him.  Same for Fraser.  These two can cause most teams problems but they need a full-back behind them to make sure we aren't exposed on the wings.

Souttar, McKenna and Bates may all end up at a higher level but at the moment, none of them are at the moment.  Lets see how they get on because it wasn't that long ago that Danny Wilson and Grant Hanley were the answer to all our CB problems but both careers have not got any better than when they first broke into the team at a similar age to the three we've just mentioned.

RB is a problem, but as I pointed out earlier, we've done quite well whenever we've asked Tierney to fill in. 

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1 hour ago, PASTA Mick said:

Like I said, playing 3 at the back puts too many players in a formation in which I don't think we would see the best of them.

It is no surprise that Forrest had his best two games when he was part of a forward 3 with less defensive duties asked of him.  Same for Fraser.  These two can cause most teams problems but they need a full-back behind them to make sure we aren't exposed on the wings.

Souttar, McKenna and Bates may all end up at a higher level but at the moment, none of them are at the moment.  Lets see how they get on because it wasn't that long ago that Danny Wilson and Grant Hanley were the answer to all our CB problems but both careers have not got any better than when they first broke into the team at a similar age to the three we've just mentioned.

RB is a problem, but as I pointed out earlier, we've done quite well whenever we've asked Tierney to fill in. 

I think it's debateable. You mention "Robertson, McGregor, Armstrong, Forrest and Fraser", but I think all 5 would be fine playing with three behind them. Forrest and Fraser would be 2 of the front three. Personally I'd play McGregor and Robertson as the midfield central two, especially Robertson as he would give brilliant defensive cover.

True about Wilson and Hanley, especially Wilson.

I quite like inverted wingers, but inverted full backs can be a hazard.

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9 hours ago, Chripper said:

Yes he was.

Apparently a draw against the team ranked 5th isn't enough to convince people that a back three works. Only a 5:0 win would've won people over, and maybe not even that.... because "our players are used to playing with a flat back four"... which is obvious, as we're so good at it. </sarcasm>

This is specious reasoning.  Did the 3 at the back cause Griffiths to bang in two amazing free kicks? If not for that we'd have lost the game! 

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13 minutes ago, todd said:

This is specious reasoning.  Did the 3 at the back cause Griffiths to bang in two amazing free kicks? If not for that we'd have lost the game! 

I said it with tongue-in-cheek. :P

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2 minutes ago, Chripper said:

We actually scored both goals when we switched to 4-4-2, but shhhhhh…. don't tell anyone. ;)

Your secret's safe with me. 😂

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5 hours ago, Chripper said:

. Personally I don't care what formation we play as long as we win, but I think we'll do better with a 3 if we persevere with it.

That's the problem. At international level you don't have the time to persevere or experiment with new ideas. You might well be right with some of your team selections, formations but do you really want to gamble that as many of the players you want to play out of position can adapt to  a different formation.

At the moment I would say we have three or four players that are more than capable of playing at the higher end of club football in their positions so you have to build your team round that.

Apart from right back you have decent players to play 4-2-3-1, 

At right back you either have to accept O'Donnell is our best option or hope that Tierney is a good enough all round player to adapt to playing out of position. Not half the team as you suggest

The teams that have failed us over the last 18 years had a totally different set of players so I think it is time to believe the current crop are good enough to compete playing in their natural positions.

 

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