Squad to play Albania and Israel

[Mox]

1 hour ago, RenfrewBlue said:

We won't qualify because we're not good enough and some of the players appear to not give a toss. 

If the manager is that bad, come out and say it. If they prefer to just chuck it then it shows that they were losers anyway. 

Not at all, the SFA's job is to provide them with the best platform to try and qualify for a major tournament, they appointed McLeish and the players, quite rightly are not behind it.

They know better than all of us what they require as a group of players to help them win games and it's clear they feel the SFA haven't helped them in anyway by appointing an old pal who is so out of touch with the modern game.

I'm sure McLeish is a decent man and I do feel sorry for him, but if it takes player power to get him removed, then so be it, I don't think any less of any of them as a result.

[PASTA Mick]

1 hour ago, RenfrewBlue said:

So you only keep managers that qualify but you want serial failure (by your assessment) Strachan back? Or rather to have been kept in. 

Aye, it's not personal, is it. 

I wanted Strachan out. Making things up doesn't help your argument. 

McLeish has been pretty dreadful since he left Birmingham. He shouldn't be near the job. 

[RenfrewBlue]

58 minutes ago, Mox said:

Not at all, the SFA's job is to provide them with the best platform to try and qualify for a major tournament, they appointed McLeish and the players, quite rightly are not behind it.

They know better than all of us what they require as a group of players to help them win games and it's clear they feel the SFA haven't helped them in anyway by appointing an old pal who is so out of touch with the modern game.

I'm sure McLeish is a decent man and I do feel sorry for him, but if it takes player power to get him removed, then so be it, I don't think any less of any of them as a result.

The players aren't qualified to assess the managers competence. Most of them can barely manage to kick the ball without falling over. 

Seriously, any player that undermines the manager should get chased. There are formal ways to raise this type of thing. 

You must have had nothing but praise for Barry Ferguson and his stance on Paul Le Guen and Berti Vogts then? 

[RenfrewBlue]

56 minutes ago, PASTA Mick said:

I wanted Strachan out. Making things up doesn't help your argument. 

McLeish has been pretty dreadful since he left Birmingham. He shouldn't be near the job. 

I agree McLeish has been poor so far but he's barely had his arse in the door before a decent chunk of "supporters" were moaning. 

Apologies, I got you mixed up with another poster about Strachan. 

[Lairdyfaeinverclyde]

12 minutes ago, RenfrewBlue said:

I agree McLeish has been poor so far but he's barely had his arse in the door before a decent chunk of "supporters" were moaning. 

Apologies, I got you mixed up with another poster about Strachan. 

When McLeish was appointed as manager what was your initial thoughts? Did you honestly believe he was the man for the job, your first choice, or was he the best and only option the SFA had left after the O'Neil shambles? Not having a go but putting supporters in quotation marks looks like you believe the people who didn't or don't want McLeish in the job support the team less than you do, as i said not having a go at you.

[dandydunn]

2 hours ago, ceudmilefailte said:

Surprised not one of these injuries is the sort that might clear up by Tuesday. Something far  wrong.

 

Devlin apparently doubtful for the final

[dandydunn]

13 minutes ago, Lairdyfaeinverclyde said:

When McLeish was appointed as manager what was your initial thoughts? Did you honestly believe he was the man for the job, your first choice, or was he the best and only option the SFA had left after the O'Neil shambles? Not having a go but putting supporters in quotation marks looks like you believe the people who didn't or don't want McLeish in the job support the team less than you do, as i said not having a go at you.

I would say they had been so focused on O’Neill, that had absolutely no idea who else was available or may be interested, so decided to give their pal a bell and give him the gig. We all know just how incompetent these cunts really are. 

[Lairdyfaeinverclyde]

1 minute ago, dandydunn said:

I would say they had been so focused on O’Neill, that had absolutely no idea who else was available or may be interested, so decided to give their pal a bell and give him the gig. We all know just how incompetent these cunts really are. 

👍

[RenfrewBlue]

1 hour ago, Lairdyfaeinverclyde said:

When McLeish was appointed as manager what was your initial thoughts? Did you honestly believe he was the man for the job, your first choice, or was he the best and only option the SFA had left after the O'Neil shambles? Not having a go but putting supporters in quotation marks looks like you believe the people who didn't or don't want McLeish in the job support the team less than you do, as i said not having a go at you.

Quotation marks are just for emphasis. If you don't support the team are you really a supporter. And I would never big myself up in that regard. 

My initial thoughts were that it was pretty much all we could afford or attract. The Scotland job is just not an attractive proposition and any manager who has or wants to enhance their career would do well to avoid it. 

[Lairdyfaeinverclyde]

15 minutes ago, RenfrewBlue said:

Quotation marks are just for emphasis. If you don't support the team are you really a supporter. And I would never big myself up in that regard. 

My initial thoughts were that it was pretty much all we could afford or attract. The Scotland job is just not an attractive proposition and any manager who has or wants to enhance their career would do well to avoid it. 

Because i disagree with who is the manager doesn't mean i won't support the players. I will be at the game on Tuesday giving support and encouragement to the players.  I have followed and supported Scotland since 1973 and suffered some awful teams and managers but still go to games . So yes, i believe i am really a supporter.

Your last point say's a lot about McLeish.

Edited November 16, 2018 by Lairdyfaeinverclyde

[Mox]

2 hours ago, RenfrewBlue said:

The players aren't qualified to assess the managers competence. Most of them can barely manage to kick the ball without falling over. 

Seriously, any player that undermines the manager should get chased. There are formal ways to raise this type of thing. 

You must have had nothing but praise for Barry Ferguson and his stance on Paul Le Guen and Berti Vogts then? 

The situations are not comparable. Ferguson didn't like Le Guen or Vogts as they were 'outsiders' that were trying to introduce 'foreign methods' that he and others didn't understand. These players are standing up against the norm, the same crap that's gotten us nowhere for 20 years, there's something to be said for that.

We've probably got our best group of technically gifted footballers in years, we need a manager that reflects that.

[Hertsscot]

On 11/6/2018 at 7:31 PM, Hertsscot said:

We haven't had the withdrawals yet, we can pick teams on paper but most squads seem to be hit with several players who can't make it.

Okay I'm quoting myself which is sad but can I have prophecy of the year award?

[Tartan Chris]

Have to say losing McGInn and Tierney is a total disaster.

The spine of the team is so weak now it's untrue. No one really who can score goals with Griffiths and Naismith out and I'd be amazed if whatever defensive combination is put out keeps out less than two goals.

It's going to be a long night.

I was mildly shocked when I looked at odds this morning and Albania were being quoted at 7/4 to win! For insurance I'd suggest lumping on that. They're not even that bad at home and we know even a full strength Scotland are mediocre travellers.

Would imagine odds will slightly come down but they've still be above evens so will lump a tenner on them.

[Malcolm]

Players that choose not to play without being injured or without managerial agreement should never be picked again for Scotland, whoever the manager is.  

[er yir macaroon]

6 hours ago, Tartan Chris said:

Have to say losing McGInn and Tierney is a total disaster.

The spine of the team is so weak now it's untrue. No one really who can score goals with Griffiths and Naismith out and I'd be amazed if whatever defensive combination is put out keeps out less than two goals.

It's going to be a long night.

I was mildly shocked when I looked at odds this morning and Albania were being quoted at 7/4 to win! For insurance I'd suggest lumping on that. They're not even that bad at home and we know even a full strength Scotland are mediocre travellers.

Would imagine odds will slightly come down but they've still be above evens so will lump a tenner on them.

Get a grip. We’ve still got Armstrong, McGregor, Shinnie, Christie, McTominay for the spine of the team and two big bruiser centre halves. In Fletcher we’ve got a seasoned pro up front. Plus we’ve got pace and quality in the wide areas. It should be more than enough to beat Albania and less the players are as prone to bed wetting as some of the fans.

[RenfrewBlue]

9 hours ago, Lairdyfaeinverclyde said:

Because i disagree with who is the manager doesn't mean i won't support the players. I will be at the game on Tuesday giving support and encouragement to the players.  I have followed and supported Scotland since 1973 and suffered some awful teams and managers but still go to games . So yes, i believe i am really a supporter.

Your last point say's a lot about McLeish.

Yep, I wouldn't have chosen McLeish but that doesn't mean I won't give him a chance. If we get beaten in the next 2 games though, he'll have a ready made excuse thanks to the cowards that have bailed.

We do also have a shortage in some positions and legitimate injuries have hit up front and in central defence.

Let's face it, even if the entire squad had been fully fit and raring to go, if you remove Griffiths and Naismith there just aren't any goals in the team. 

[RenfrewBlue]

9 hours ago, Mox said:

The situations are not comparable. Ferguson didn't like Le Guen or Vogts as they were 'outsiders' that were trying to introduce 'foreign methods' that he and others didn't understand. These players are standing up against the norm, the same crap that's gotten us nowhere for 20 years, there's something to be said for that.

We've probably got our best group of technically gifted footballers in years, we need a manager that reflects that.

Rubbish. Ferguson didn't like them but it's OK as they were foreign? 

As I've already said, players are simply not qualified to judge a manager. 

Ferguson is a halfwit and there's not many in the current squad give the impression of being any smarter. 

[RenfrewBlue]

15 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

Players that choose not to play without being injured or without managerial agreement should never be picked again for Scotland, whoever the manager is.  

Totally agree. 

[Lairdyfaeinverclyde]

29 minutes ago, RenfrewBlue said:

Yep, I wouldn't have chosen McLeish but that doesn't mean I won't give him a chance. If we get beaten in the next 2 games though, he'll have a ready made excuse thanks to the cowards that have bailed.

We do also have a shortage in some positions and legitimate injuries have hit up front and in central defence.

Let's face it, even if the entire squad had been fully fit and raring to go, if you remove Griffiths and Naismith there just aren't any goals in the team. 

Time will tell but if we don't win tonight never mind Tuesday it's time for change. Even though i think it's time for change now, not just the manager but the suits as well, but i know that won't happen. Enjoy the game tonight, hopefully.

[ThursoTA]

I've been saying this since day 1.

The SFA put all their eggs in Michael O'Neill's basket, he was very publicly number one choice.  If we had landed him you would have viewed it as an upgrade on Strachan based on his NI record.

But had we known when we let Strachan go that we'd end up with Alex McLeish, who has done nothing to note since 2011, then you'd have stuck with Strachan.  For me Alex McLeish was always going to be a sideways step or a backwards step and sadly it is proving the latter.  You have to question the selection criteria, what was it on Alex McLeish's CV since he left the national side in 2007 that made him the outstanding candidate?

My personal opinion is Strachan, based on the form the side were in at the time, should have been given the opportunity to carry that form into this League of Nations campaign.

[kwhitelaw]

14 minutes ago, ThursoTA said:

I've been saying this since day 1.

The SFA put all their eggs in Michael O'Neill's basket, he was very publicly number one choice.  If we had landed him you would have viewed it as an upgrade on Strachan based on his NI record.

But had we known when we let Strachan go that we'd end up with Alex McLeish, who has done nothing to note since 2011, then you'd have stuck with Strachan.  For me Alex McLeish was always going to be a sideways step or a backwards step and sadly it is proving the latter.  You have to question the selection criteria, what was it on Alex McLeish's CV since he left the national side in 2007 that made him the outstanding candidate?

My personal opinion is Strachan, based on the form the side were in at the time, should have been given the opportunity to carry that form into this League of Nations campaign.

Agree with all of this. After the 1-1 draw at home with Lithuania I was done with Strachan but to his credit he turned it round, albeit mainly thanks to Brendan Rodgers whipping the Celtic players into shape!

I quite liked the way McLeish was setting things up in the beginning trying to keep things tight and pressing teams! The start of the Belgium game looked promising until we gave away a stupid goal and then we collapsed! Since then it’s been dreadful to watch. Even the win over Albania was a slog.

At the end of all this there are 3 people that truly deserve the wrath of the fans, Regan, McRae and Petrie. Thankfully one has slithered off but the other 2 need disposed of ASAP. 

[Manno]

1 hour ago, er yir macaroon said:

Get a grip. We’ve still got Armstrong, McGregor, Shinnie, Christie, McTominay for the spine of the team and two big bruiser centre halves. In Fletcher we’ve got a seasoned pro up front. Plus we’ve got pace and quality in the wide areas. It should be more than enough to beat Albania and less the players are as prone to bed wetting as some of the fans.

This. We’ve lost a lot of bodies but how many would realistically have started? Two? Three at most?

Im not including Ritchie, Snodgrass or McArthur as they made themselves unavailable, we knew Griffiths and Naismith were injured as are Souttar (and Berra). Cairney might have been called up but would he have started?

My issue with McLeish right now is that he seems to be trying to rewrite everything Strachan did. He’s focusing on calling up SPFL standard players, and that’s okay if they are good enough. But he’s not looking much further afield down south. We keep hearing how he should have called up a right back, well who is there? Jason Naismith at Peterborough - he’d have been lynched by the media. Who is there in Scotland that can play right back, that wasn’t called up? Same with centre half, I thought Porteous might have gotten a call, but surely Liam Cooper would have, top of the Championship with Leeds. Or Murray Wallace at  Millwall. Or Liam Lindsay at barnsley. We went with four left footed defenders against england at Hampden, so why can’t we do the same against albania and Israel?

Ive said before, ROI call up about 36 players and then cut that down. We should be doing similar because there are players that aren’t getting selected and it doesn’t seem like we’ve even bothered looking at them. Perhaps some of the players I’ve mentioned have been contacted and aren’t interested, and if that’s the case then that really should be made public. 

Right now we have a plethora of central and attacking midfielders, some decent options out wide and of course left back. We don’t appear to have anyone other than O’Donnell at right back, have few options at centre half and don’t have a natural finisher other than Griffiths (despite Naismiths start to the season). That can’t all be the managers fault. 

[Mox]

36 minutes ago, ThursoTA said:

I've been saying this since day 1.

The SFA put all their eggs in Michael O'Neill's basket, he was very publicly number one choice.  If we had landed him you would have viewed it as an upgrade on Strachan based on his NI record.

But had we known when we let Strachan go that we'd end up with Alex McLeish, who has done nothing to note since 2011, then you'd have stuck with Strachan.  For me Alex McLeish was always going to be a sideways step or a backwards step and sadly it is proving the latter.  You have to question the selection criteria, what was it on Alex McLeish's CV since he left the national side in 2007 that made him the outstanding candidate?

My personal opinion is Strachan, based on the form the side were in at the time, should have been given the opportunity to carry that form into this League of Nations campaign.

The problem is though, O'Neill isn't the right choice either, we need a foreigner. We need someone with a footballing philosophy that represents modern football, there isn't one Scottish manager that fits that description.

[ThursoTA]

12 minutes ago, Mox said:

The problem is though, O'Neill isn't the right choice either, we need a foreigner. We need someone with a footballing philosophy that represents modern football, there isn't one Scottish manager that fits that description.

The prospective appointment of O'Neill wasn't my point.  My point was McLeish was at best a sideways step but is proving a backwards step.   If you had known Alex McLeish was going to your manager when you sacked Strachan.....you'd have kept Strachan.  It was an appointment which was never going to take us up a notch.

I don't really mind if the manager is Scottish/British/foreign, so long as the best candidate available is selected.  But it does feel as though a foreign appointment is right at the moment.  I don't see an outstanding Scottish candidate out there and Strachan is probably still the best Scottish guy available.

[Hertsscot]

3 hours ago, Manno said:

Right now we have a plethora of central and attacking midfielders, some decent options out wide and of course left back. We don’t appear to have anyone other than O’Donnell at right back, have few options at centre half and don’t have a natural finisher other than Griffiths (despite Naismiths start to the season). That can’t all be the managers fault. 

And those problems were there under Strachan and predate him as well. 

RB: it's Paterson, O'Donnell or Tierney or abandon altogether in favour of three CH plus wingbacks. 

CH: has been problematic for years (just getting two, let alone three!) a

Striker: Haven't had a really decent forward for years, such a contrast to 70s or 80s, for those who can remember