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McArthur Retires


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The shame of it from my perspective is that this is the only time in his career that I'd have classified him as a first team pick for Scotland. End of the day though, I don't really want anyone that's not willing to put their body on the line for Scotland, unless they're Pele.

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3 hours ago, COLT NY said:

The shame of it from my perspective is that this is the only time in his career that I'd have classified him as a first team pick for Scotland. End of the day though, I don't really want anyone that's not willing to put their body on the line for Scotland, unless they're Pele.

Agree with this, his heart clearly wasn’t in it when he made himself unavailable till November. I wonder what has changed since his last statement.........

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8 hours ago, Bobby Russell's Lovechild said:

Being a professional footballer obviously takes its toll on the body (think it was Gary Caldwell that had to have double hip surgery) and Palace is where he earns his money. No problems with this, shame though

Can't help wondering if there couldn't be some better way of distributing money in the game, to ease the strain on the club v country issue.

I mean it seems somehow not right, a wee bit sad, that even if we fill Hampden to watch a player pull on our jersey, that revenue that we supply from our pockets does not carry the same weight as when the same player trots out at Selhurst Park, even at roughly half the capacity.  Obviously they're subsidised by global TV audiences etc etc. 

But we are all part of the same system - the whole game or sport. The SFA administers the game, coaches get coached, and get their badges, kids get trained originally by their parents and communities, and schools, grassroots stuff, parks maintained by councils, council grass paid out of the pockets of the people. Then clubs snap them up and they are no longer really 'ours'

(I'm rambling I know.) 

And then these elite athletes they get tired, but why do they have to get so tired so exclusively on our time? when we really need them, rather than playing Watford or Fulham or whoever being deemed more important? I mean if they play 40-50 games for their club in a year, and internationals is another 5-10, (say) why shouldn't the 'tiredness' be more fairly distributed?  Playing for their club wears them out more, no?

Somehow it would be nice if the nation got something more back, instead we sort of have the cream of the nation's talent, sort of locked away behind the paywall of partisan clubs, sometimes rich distant clubs, where only a minority will ever share their success in any direct sense. Don't they owe it somehow to the general populace to just once in a while turn up to allow the whole nation to enjoy their - our -  investment? Not just hardcore football fans but all sorts of citizens, even armchair fans but who have paid their small sums via council tax grass and schools coaches, and wouldn't it be nice to get something more back, as they do their stuff on the park for us, for once?   

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He is 31, not an automatic first pick, had a bad ankle ligament injury in 2016 and still has issues with his back 

He has represented Scotland at Under 21 and International level for the last 10 years and always stood up when he was asked while probably recognising he was just a bit short of International class

Some of the comments on this thread is the thanks he gets ?

 

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5 hours ago, Malcolm said:

International football has lost its status and is no longer important aside from being a shop window for players to present themselves for a big club move.

Depends on the team to be fair... Only player I can think of that's retired from England when they still needed him was Paul Scholes... Why do our players feel it's totally optional?

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19 hours ago, Bobby Russell's Lovechild said:

Being a professional footballer obviously takes its toll on the body (think it was Gary Caldwell that had to have double hip surgery) and Palace is where he earns his money. No problems with this, shame though

Being a footballer can take its toll but let’s be very honest about MacArthurs situation. He’s not playing at a club that plays CL or even EL football. Palace are the type of club who will rest players like MacArthur in cup matches therefore he may only play 38 matches per season if they remain in the EPL. He is unlikely to play all of those matches but it’s a maximum of 38.

scott brown retired for the right reasons, I don’t agree with players retiring from international football, you should be available till you’re no longer selected but brown has a lot of football to play because he plays in a successful team that play fights on four fronts every season.

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11 hours ago, exile said:

Can't help wondering if there couldn't be some better way of distributing money in the game, to ease the strain on the club v country issue.

I mean it seems somehow not right, a wee bit sad, that even if we fill Hampden to watch a player pull on our jersey, that revenue that we supply from our pockets does not carry the same weight as when the same player trots out at Selhurst Park, even at roughly half the capacity.  Obviously they're subsidised by global TV audiences etc etc. 

But we are all part of the same system - the whole game or sport. The SFA administers the game, coaches get coached, and get their badges, kids get trained originally by their parents and communities, and schools, grassroots stuff, parks maintained by councils, council grass paid out of the pockets of the people. Then clubs snap them up and they are no longer really 'ours'

(I'm rambling I know.) 

And then these elite athletes they get tired, but why do they have to get so tired so exclusively on our time? when we really need them, rather than playing Watford or Fulham or whoever being deemed more important? I mean if they play 40-50 games for their club in a year, and internationals is another 5-10, (say) why shouldn't the 'tiredness' be more fairly distributed?  Playing for their club wears them out more, no?

Somehow it would be nice if the nation got something more back, instead we sort of have the cream of the nation's talent, sort of locked away behind the paywall of partisan clubs, sometimes rich distant clubs, where only a minority will ever share their success in any direct sense. Don't they owe it somehow to the general populace to just once in a while turn up to allow the whole nation to enjoy their - our -  investment? Not just hardcore football fans but all sorts of citizens, even armchair fans but who have paid their small sums via council tax grass and schools coaches, and wouldn't it be nice to get something more back, as they do their stuff on the park for us, for once?   

You're not rambling that's a good piece.

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7 hours ago, Ally Bongo said:

He is 31, not an automatic first pick, had a bad ankle ligament injury in 2016 and still has issues with his back 

He has represented Scotland at Under 21 and International level for the last 10 years and always stood up when he was asked while probably recognising he was just a bit short of International class

Some of the comments on this thread is the thanks he gets ?

 

Agreed!  He was never a world beater but gave his all and scored some important goals.  Also, losing an experienced English Premiership player who starts every week is no big deal?!!  I didn't realise we were so blessed with an abundance midfield talent.  We certainly didn't miss his experience in Israel.....

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1 hour ago, kwhitelaw said:

Agreed!  He was never a world beater but gave his all and scored some important goals.  Also, losing an experienced English Premiership player who starts every week is no big deal?!!  I didn't realise we were so blessed with an abundance midfield talent.  We certainly didn't miss his experience in Israel.....

The category "experienced English Premiership player" also applies to Steven Fletcher, Charlie Adam, Barry Bannan, Alan Hutton, Robert Snodgrass and Darren Fletcher. We don't need them any more. Same goes for McArthur.

Whilst we're at it - Matt Elliot, Dominic Matteo and Nigel Qaushie in their day could also be described as each being an "experienced English Premiership player". See where I'm going with that ? 

Just because they play in that league doesn't mean that they will be great for Scotland at international level. Plenty of Welsh and Irish fans could tell you the same about Premiership players they had who simply couldn't do it at international level.

Getting Liam Henderson called up and Scott McTominay getting a loan move should be the priority now. We don't need McArthur anymore.

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34 minutes ago, ErsatzThistle said:

The category "experienced English Premiership player" also applies to Steven Fletcher, Charlie Adam, Barry Bannan, Alan Hutton, Robert Snodgrass and Darren Fletcher. We don't need them any more. Same goes for McArthur.

Whilst we're at it - Matt Elliot, Dominic Matteo and Nigel Qaushie in their day could also be described as each being an "experienced English Premiership player". See where I'm going with that ? 

Just because they play in that league doesn't mean that they will be great for Scotland at international level. Plenty of Welsh and Irish fans could tell you the same about Premiership players they had who simply couldn't do it at international level.

Getting Liam Henderson called up and Scott McTominay getting a loan move should be the priority now. We don't need McArthur anymore.

So how exactly would you pick the squad?! If the criteria for getting in the Scotland squad is past Scotland performances then we may as well just scrap senior national football now and start following the U21s!! 

With the exception of Snodgrass, none of those players currently are in the same position as McArthur in that they are starting every week for a top flight team.  Also Bannan should absolutely be in or around the squad, he's currently one the top performers in the Championship.

Elliot, Matteo and Quashie? Aye I see where you're going with that and you're only able to with the luxury of hindsight!  At the time they were all playing at a much higher level than their actual Scottish born counterparts (Matteo was born in Dumfries but anyway..) and Matteo had Champions League experience with Leeds Utd!

Of course playing in a top league doesn't mean they'll be great at international level. Are you suggesting we go back to this nonsense that Strachan was spouting about picking players to suit a specific system?  That was simply bollocks, international football should be about finding the best system to suit the best in form players at your disposal!  I should also follow that up, however, by saying I don't agree with the Tierney/Robertson situation though.  One should start over the other at left back, end of.

I agree with you on Henderson and McTominay.

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3 minutes ago, kwhitelaw said:

So how exactly would you pick the squad?! If the criteria for getting in the Scotland squad is past Scotland performances then we may as well just scrap senior national football now and start following the U21s!! 

Right now I'd put great emphasis on "blooding" young Scots. 

Sentimentality on the part of our managers towards their favourites has held us back for too long.

5 minutes ago, kwhitelaw said:

With the exception of Snodgrass, none of those players currently are in the same position as McArthur in that they are starting every week for a top flight team.  Also Bannan should absolutely be in or around the squad, he's currently one the top performers in the Championship.

Snodgrass was good for a while and a real trier but he is done now. Bannan was largely hopeless for Scotland. We've had lots of players who did well in the English Championship but too many of them have been poor or inconsistent at international level.

7 minutes ago, kwhitelaw said:

Elliot, Matteo and Quashie? Aye I see where you're going with that and you're only able to with the luxury of hindsight!  At the time they were all playing at a much higher level than their actual Scottish born counterparts (Matteo was born in Dumfries but anyway..) and Matteo had Champions League experience with Leeds Utd!

All three are examples of players who had a lot of experience in that particular league you obviously worship at the altar of - and who were not upto international football. The fact Elliot and Nigel Quashie are English born is purely coincidental. And I did know Matteo was born in Scotland but the facts are that he formally switched to England early on, was on the bench twice for the England senior team (did you know that ?), played for their U21 and B teams and when he did switch back to us he was awful and clearly not interested. 

13 minutes ago, kwhitelaw said:

Of course playing in a top league doesn't mean they'll be great at international level. Are you suggesting we go back to this nonsense that Strachan was spouting about picking players to suit a specific system?  That was simply bollocks, international football should be about finding the best system to suit the best in form players at your disposal!  I should also follow that up, however, by saying I don't agree with the Tierney/Robertson situation though.  One should start over the other at left back, end of.

It's fine to criticise Strachan's ridiculous ideas that he came out with towards the end of this spell in charge. I'm with you there. But don't you see that your argument of just picking English Premiership players for the Scotland XI ....... just purely because they play in the pure dead amazing (coz Sky Sports tell me so) English Premiership is little better ?

What if there is a lad who plays for Hibs or Hearts that puts in that extra effort in at international level but gets dropped to make way for a repeatedly tried and failed player at international level who is picked just because they play for West Ham or Crystal Palace ? Hold on, actually that is something Strachan would do.

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38 minutes ago, ErsatzThistle said:

Right now I'd put great emphasis on "blooding" young Scots. 

Sentimentality on the part of our managers towards their favourites has held us back for too long.

Snodgrass was good for a while and a real trier but he is done now. Bannan was largely hopeless for Scotland. We've had lots of players who did well in the English Championship but too many of them have been poor or inconsistent at international level.

All three are examples of players who had a lot of experience in that particular league you obviously worship at the altar of - and who were not upto international football. The fact Elliot and Nigel Quashie are English born is purely coincidental. And I did know Matteo was born in Scotland but the facts are that he formally switched to England early on, was on the bench twice for the England senior team (did you know that ?), played for their U21 and B teams and when he did switch back to us he was awful and clearly not interested. 

It's fine to criticise Strachan's ridiculous ideas that he came out with towards the end of this spell in charge. I'm with you there. But don't you see that your argument of just picking English Premiership players for the Scotland XI ....... just purely because they play in the pure dead amazing (coz Sky Sports tell me so) English Premiership is little better ?

What if there is a lad who plays for Hibs or Hearts that puts in that extra effort in at international level but gets dropped to make way for a repeatedly tried and failed player at international level who is picked just because they play for West Ham or Crystal Palace ? Hold on, actually that is something Strachan would do.

Sorry but we just have different views on how you should pick an international 1st team.  I believe that you pick the best, in form player available for each position within reason.  Maybe that will be an uncapped 21 year old playing in the SPFL or maybe a veteran 31 year old in the EPL it just depends on the current circumstances.  Imo blooding young players is for the clubs or the U21s, U17s etc.

What Strachan was guilty of in the beginning was picking EPL players regardless of form and playing time for their clubs, his squads were more like a club mentality than internationals.  He wised up and changed this when Celtic had a regular Scottish core to their team and we went on our best run for years.

I honestly couldn't give a monkeys about the EPL, I spend more time paying attention the Scottish Championship but it is probably the most competitive European top league outside Spain and you need to have talent about you to command a starting place in most teams in that league!  Ignoring players or saying we don't need them when they are competing at that level simply because they 'failed' before is crazy.  That's the main point i was originally making!

I also don't believe that SPFL player should automatically be trumped for an EPL player.  Lets use Tierney and Robertson for example, at the weekend there Robbo was rested and Moreno came back into the squad.  If Moreno had played a blinder and the keeps Robbo out the Liverpool starting 11 then absolutely Tierney should then be the 1st choice Scotland left back.  Same for any other position.  Or lets say that Robertson starts against Albania and inexplicably has an absolute shocker, I would not criticize McLeish if he dropped him for the Israel game and played Tierney.

 

 

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16 hours ago, exile said:

Can't help wondering if there couldn't be some better way of distributing money in the game, to ease the strain on the club v country issue.

I mean it seems somehow not right, a wee bit sad, that even if we fill Hampden to watch a player pull on our jersey, that revenue that we supply from our pockets does not carry the same weight as when the same player trots out at Selhurst Park, even at roughly half the capacity.  Obviously they're subsidised by global TV audiences etc etc. 

But we are all part of the same system - the whole game or sport. The SFA administers the game, coaches get coached, and get their badges, kids get trained originally by their parents and communities, and schools, grassroots stuff, parks maintained by councils, council grass paid out of the pockets of the people. Then clubs snap them up and they are no longer really 'ours'

(I'm rambling I know.) 

And then these elite athletes they get tired, but why do they have to get so tired so exclusively on our time? when we really need them, rather than playing Watford or Fulham or whoever being deemed more important? I mean if they play 40-50 games for their club in a year, and internationals is another 5-10, (say) why shouldn't the 'tiredness' be more fairly distributed?  Playing for their club wears them out more, no?

Somehow it would be nice if the nation got something more back, instead we sort of have the cream of the nation's talent, sort of locked away behind the paywall of partisan clubs, sometimes rich distant clubs, where only a minority will ever share their success in any direct sense. Don't they owe it somehow to the general populace to just once in a while turn up to allow the whole nation to enjoy their - our -  investment? Not just hardcore football fans but all sorts of citizens, even armchair fans but who have paid their small sums via council tax grass and schools coaches, and wouldn't it be nice to get something more back, as they do their stuff on the park for us, for once?   

Excellent post, the only correction i would add is McArthur won't play 40-50 games a season.  He will play 30-40.

Its the new breed of player, those who complain about being away from family for a couple of days, they live in a fantasy world

Edited by vanderark14
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