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Scotland Under 21s Vs England Under 21s (5:30pm)


Chripper

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5 minutes ago, Chripper said:

It was a case of Men vs Boys.

We aren't even proficient enough to cross the halfway like with the ball.

At under 21 level the last time that we got anything from England was 1982, which says all you need to know about the way that out football association and how our clubs and coaches bring through our youngsters. Root and branch the aforementioned have ignored their duty to impart some sort of ideology onto our kids. We lack identity. We have lacked any sort of a plan for decades and we are so far behind the majority of countries that I'm embarrassed for us.

People can talk about Jack Harper or Burke or Gilmour but it's nothing more than papering over the cracks. We need to stop pinning hopes on this player and that player as it only brings us false hope. Personally, I'm sick of seeing false dawns.

How long have the performance schools and Project Brave been in existence? We’ve got to give it time before we reap the benefits!

Jack Harper wasn’t even developed in this country!😝

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7 minutes ago, SWMM82 said:

How long have the performance schools and Project Brave been in existence? We’ve got to give it time before we reap the benefits!

Jack Harper wasn’t even developed in this country!😝

At this point I think it's all lip service. 

I know, I just meant pointing to a youngster and pinning our hopes on them. 😋

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21 minutes ago, Chripper said:

At this point I think it's all lip service. 

I know, I just meant pointing to a youngster and pinning our hopes on them. 😋

Believe me, I completely understand how difficult it is to be positive in the current climate, but things are happening now at youth level which we can be a lot more optimistic about. 

Out of the current u21 squad, only a handful will become regular full internationalists in my opinion..... Porteous, Gilmour, Johnstone, and Hornby.......maybe Morgan and Ferguson.......all of which have another year in that age group. 

Edited by SWMM82
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18 minutes ago, SWMM82 said:

Believe me, I completely understand how difficult it is to be positive in the current climate, but things are happening now at youth level which we can be a lot more optimistic about. 

Out of the current u21 squad, only a handful will become regular full internationalists in my opinion..... Porteous, Gilmour, Johnstone, and Hornby.......maybe Morgan and Ferguson.......all of which have another year in that age group. 

Completely agree... One player who disappointingly has stalled though is McCrorie. He isn't going to make it at the highest level as a holding Midfielder, he really needs to focus on Centre Half where he has a better chance of reaching a higher level tbh.

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17 minutes ago, bazmidd said:

Completely agree... One player who disappointingly has stalled though is McCrorie. He isn't going to make it at the highest level as a holding Midfielder, he really needs to focus on Centre Half where he has a better chance of reaching a higher level tbh.

Yeah I agree, he may need to move away from Rangers, to play regular first team football though. 

Gerrard has unfortunately moved to Ibrox and followed the pattern of a lot of managers in recent times, filling their squads with loan signings at the expense of developing their own players.

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Just watched the Ireland v Wales game. Need to give a lot of credit to Ryan Giggs an inexperienced manager who had the balls to give an opportunity to a few young players untested at this level. The boy's he played were excellent, full of enthusiasm and looked liked they wanted to make there mark. Maybe this could be a lesson to our manager. Why not give a few of the under 21's a crack at it. What has he got to lose, apart from his job, but you never know. The enthusiasm of the youngsters may rub off on a team that looks scunnered.

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6 minutes ago, Lairdyfaeinverclyde said:

Just watched the Ireland v Wales game. Need to give a lot of credit to Ryan Giggs an inexperienced manager who had the balls to give an opportunity to a few young players untested at this level. The boy's he played were excellent, full of enthusiasm and looked liked they wanted to make there mark. Maybe this could be a lesson to our manager. Why not give a few of the under 21's a crack at it. What has he got to lose, apart from his job, but you never know. The enthusiasm of the youngsters may rub off on a team that looks scunnered.

The U21s haven’t exactly set the heather alight recently.

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11 minutes ago, Lairdyfaeinverclyde said:

Just watched the Ireland v Wales game. Need to give a lot of credit to Ryan Giggs an inexperienced manager who had the balls to give an opportunity to a few young players untested at this level. The boy's he played were excellent, full of enthusiasm and looked liked they wanted to make there mark. Maybe this could be a lesson to our manager. Why not give a few of the under 21's a crack at it. What has he got to lose, apart from his job, but you never know. The enthusiasm of the youngsters may rub off on a team that looks scunnered.

I see where you're coming from but I'm not sure I agree.  There's been a fair few youngsters that McLeish has played, Tierney, McKenna, Hendry, Souttar, Morgan, McTominay, McBurnie. Whilst they might inject freshness and energy there's also a danger they get dragged down to our normal level and get used to failing.  Is there an argument for not over promoting good youngsters but let them play together and win together?   Several of the players I've mentioned above would have been eligible for tonight's u21 match.  One thing England have done very well in the last year or so is to win competitions with settled groups of players.  I actually think one of the problems with the first team at the moment is we're missing a bit of experience and leadership, not sure that happens by blooding youngsters.  It's one thing to bring youngsters into  successful set up/team, it's very different when the team is struggling and morale is low.

Edited by Hertsscot
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1 minute ago, Hertsscot said:

I see where you're coming from but I'm not sure I agree.  There's been a fair few youngsters that McLeish has played, Tierney, McKenna, Hendry, Souttar, Morgan, McTominay, McBurnie. Whilst they might inject freshness and energy there's also a danger they get dragged down to our normal level and get used to failing.  Is there an argument for not over promoting good youngsters but let them play together and win together?   Several of the players I've mentioned above would have been eligible for tonight's u21 match.  One thing England have done very well in the last year or so is to win competitions with settled groups of players.  I actually think one of the problems with the first tea at the moment is we're missing a bit of experience and leadership, not sure that happens by blooding youngsters.  It's one thing to bring youngsters into  successful set up/team, it's very different when the team is struggling and morale is low.

Agree with most of your comments, especially the lack of leadership. Nobody in the current squad stands out, unfortunately.

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49 minutes ago, Lairdyfaeinverclyde said:

Just watched the Ireland v Wales game. Need to give a lot of credit to Ryan Giggs an inexperienced manager who had the balls to give an opportunity to a few young players untested at this level. The boy's he played were excellent, full of enthusiasm and looked liked they wanted to make there mark. Maybe this could be a lesson to our manager. Why not give a few of the under 21's a crack at it. What has he got to lose, apart from his job, but you never know. The enthusiasm of the youngsters may rub off on a team that looks scunnered.

There was an article in the Daily Record this week criticising him for doing just that. That ridding the team of experience is folly. I think it's the right step but it'll take a long time. And the truth is there isn't the experienced old hand who can guide them.

Comments above urging restraint are right. We have a young first team. The current U21s will produce a handful and we need to give it time to see what impact the new initiatives have.

I feel pretty down this week as I was genuinely really optimistic but there needs a dose of reality.

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I see Netherlands U21 horsed Ukraine. Yet we beat Netherlands home and away, but capitulated away to Ukraine just last week.

A puzzling, inconsistent campaign. I agree tonight was a mismatch. They looked so much better in every department.

The prognosis is poor. What makes it worse is that England's prognosis is good. Gah.

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2 hours ago, SWMM82 said:

Believe me, I completely understand how difficult it is to be positive in the current climate, but things are happening now at youth level which we can be a lot more optimistic about. 

Out of the current u21 squad, only a handful will become regular full internationalists in my opinion..... Porteous, Gilmour, Johnstone, and Hornby.......maybe Morgan and Ferguson.......all of which have another year in that age group. 

I hope you're right. At the minute I'm just fed up.

To be honest, after believing the hype behind Burke and then McTominay (and countless others before them) I'm done with predicting who will make it and who won't. lol. 

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Very poor tonight - we at least looked an occasional threat in the reverse fixture a few months back.  England were faster, stronger and more skilful.  In any "team of the night" there wouldn't be a single Scot amomgst them.

26 shots to our 4

66% possession

Player ratings

Doohan - Very poor for first goal which wasn't even in the corner - and from 30 yards out !?

Smith - Survived a bit of a first half roasting to achieve something approaching parity in second half.  Pass marks.

Taylor - Have to say I rated this lad but he had his worse performance in a Soctland jersey.  Failed to stop them crossing at will and constantly targetted in the air by England.  Mare!

Bates - Never looked comfortable and, though our tallest defender never seemed to get his head on anything.

Porteous - Pass marks for him though well beaten in the air at corners.  Would be a contender for a step up to the senior squad if he was just a tad taller.

Cadden - Lots of effort but his lack of ball control was an embarassment at times.

Campbell - see Cadden.

McCrorie - Never a defensive midfielder, not on that display. 

Gilmour - tidy but largely anonymous.  Still only 17 though so there's hope.

Morgan - Not only his worst performance in a Scotland jersey but the worst by far I've ever seen him in any game - no pace, no control.  Thought he could step up to the senior squad straight away but now not so sure.

Shaw - Thankless task but did nothing to suggest he was an asset on the field.

 

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7 hours ago, henry george said:

Very poor tonight - we at least looked an occasional threat in the reverse fixture a few months back.  England were faster, stronger and more skilful.  In any "team of the night" there wouldn't be a single Scot amomgst them.

26 shots to our 4

66% possession

Player ratings

Doohan - Very poor for first goal which wasn't even in the corner - and from 30 yards out !?

Smith - Survived a bit of a first half roasting to achieve something approaching parity in second half.  Pass marks.

Taylor - Have to say I rated this lad but he had his worse performance in a Soctland jersey.  Failed to stop them crossing at will and constantly targetted in the air by England.  Mare!

Bates - Never looked comfortable and, though our tallest defender never seemed to get his head on anything.

Porteous - Pass marks for him though well beaten in the air at corners.  Would be a contender for a step up to the senior squad if he was just a tad taller.

Cadden - Lots of effort but his lack of ball control was an embarassment at times.

Campbell - see Cadden.

McCrorie - Never a defensive midfielder, not on that display. 

Gilmour - tidy but largely anonymous.  Still only 17 though so there's hope.

Morgan - Not only his worst performance in a Scotland jersey but the worst by far I've ever seen him in any game - no pace, no control.  Thought he could step up to the senior squad straight away but now not so sure.

Shaw - Thankless task but did nothing to suggest he was an asset on the field.

 

I don’t agree re Morgan. He played well for the first hour but then his lack of proper match fitness caught up with him. 

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12 hours ago, bazmidd said:

Completely agree... One player who disappointingly has stalled though is McCrorie. He isn't going to make it at the highest level as a holding Midfielder, he really needs to focus on Centre Half where he has a better chance of reaching a higher level tbh.

I forget the exact quote but Gerrard is on record as saying some coach nearly ruined McCrories' career by trying to develop him as a  centre back!

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14 hours ago, Duncan Blackheart said:

I’m probably being unfair - at that age you get some better players playing with some poor ones, and the latter can bring the former down. That said, notwithstanding the skills difference, the Scottish lads do look like they could do with a visit to the gym.

Nail on head. They are bigger and more athletic. Will get pelters for this but that is what Strachan meant by genetics. All our big lads get sent in goal or central defence. Yet we cannot produce any big forwards of the Jordan type now. England scored 3 goals the other night with Kane holding up and laying off. We have no one who can do that.

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15 minutes ago, Third Lanark said:

Nail on head. They are bigger and more athletic. Will get pelters for this but that is what Strachan meant by genetics. All our big lads get sent in goal or central defence. Yet we cannot produce any big forwards of the Jordan type now. England scored 3 goals the other night with Kane holding up and laying off. We have no one who can do that.

Hornby will do that for us. I also expect Zak Rudden, and Connor McLennan to give us a bit of power in the next generation of u21s. 

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3 hours ago, Third Lanark said:

Nail on head. They are bigger and more athletic. Will get pelters for this but that is what Strachan meant by genetics. All our big lads get sent in goal or central defence. Yet we cannot produce any big forwards of the Jordan type now. England scored 3 goals the other night with Kane holding up and laying off. We have no one who can do that.

I also see what Strachan was saying to an extent. But at the same time we’ve been saying for years that certain players aren’t getting the opportunity because they are “too wee”, and instead opting for physically bigger players to the detriment of actual technical ability. Then when other players catch up physically our lack of technical ability gets found out.

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